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News Article: Bush Signs Bill to Take All Newborns' DNA - Page 3

post #41 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedOne View Post
I really do not get how people blame the government for health care prices. To me that is in the health care professionals <(drs, medical suppliers, ect) jurisdiciton....blame them. Drs are the ones that charge the outrageous price for a simple visit.....not the goverment. To me the government should not even have to do anything in regards to health care, unless they are making the medical professionals charge less. People complain that the government gets into people's business to much and then they complain that they are not getting into it enough!

I would say that many many people in the states do get some form of governmental help for health care prices....such as through medicare and medicaid. It pays better than most insurances. Sadly most people take advantage of the system....if the government IS going to regulate health care prices, then they should be more selective on the screening of individuals that 'qualify' for govermental medical assistance.

But of course that is a whole different debate that is off topic, but I just thought I would throw that out there....
I am in Canada and the government sets a price for every medical procedure or visit or whatever as well as yearly limits for certain medical professionals. No insurance companies, no one making outrageous profits beyond a more than reasonable paycheck and no one ever being denied care because of their financial situation. Health care as a capitalist for-profit venture is bound to fail. I really do not see how further regulating the current American system would improve that so I see your point. Universal health care is cheaper, much easier to navigate and, most importantly does not use people's lives as commodities or medical procedures as consumption products. The idea of getting a bill for medical services is so foreign to most people in countries with socialized health care that it is difficult to hear anything about it without commenting. This is even more disturbing when all the horror stories we hear about during childbirth come with a bill to pay or an insurance company to deal with. As for the current topic, it just bothers me a little that the US government would put in place all those programs when they know that a lot of children who will be diagnosed thanks to them will not be able to afford the kind of care that can make a difference.
post #42 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by soso-lynn View Post
As for the current topic, it just bothers me a little that the US government would put in place all those programs when they know that a lot of children who will be diagnosed thanks to them will not be able to afford the kind of care that can make a difference.
again...there is medicaid<(taxpayers money that the govenment collects and distributes to pay for medical expenses of 'supposed' low income people) and things of the like in place to help such families.
It may be a pain in the butt, but it is there.
For instance, I have a cousin (13 yrs old) who was diagnosed with MD at age 4. His family is not financially stable enough to cover all of his medical expenses or pay for insurance. But they have never turned him down and probably never will. He has many different specialists that he goes to...everything from a heart specialist to a neurologist. All of his surgeries and everything has been covered without much issue. The only thing that my aunt has been having major trouble with is that her bathroom does not accomodate a wheel chair (which he has been in for years now) very well and she wants to get money to redo the bathroom for easier access. But outside of that, they have gotten everything from a free handicap friendly van (with electronic lift) to all of his procedures and appointments (which have been a lot) for basically nothing. So I am not too concerned that the kids that are found to have problems will not be taken care of.
I have been on medicaid, I know the system relatively well. Thankfully I have chosen not to have the government as a cruch. And now I just try to avoid situations that require medical assistance. So much easier that way....lol.
post #43 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by soso-lynn View Post
I am in Canada and the government sets a price for every medical procedure or visit or whatever as well as yearly limits for certain medical professionals. No insurance companies, no one making outrageous profits beyond a more than reasonable paycheck and no one ever being denied care because of their financial situation. Health care as a capitalist for-profit venture is bound to fail. I really do not see how further regulating the current American system would improve that so I see your point. Universal health care is cheaper, much easier to navigate and, most importantly does not use people's lives as commodities or medical procedures as consumption products. The idea of getting a bill for medical services is so foreign to most people in countries with socialized health care that it is difficult to hear anything about it without commenting. This is even more disturbing when all the horror stories we hear about during childbirth come with a bill to pay or an insurance company to deal with. As for the current topic, it just bothers me a little that the US government would put in place all those programs when they know that a lot of children who will be diagnosed thanks to them will not be able to afford the kind of care that can make a difference.
Also, the way I understand this bill is that it is getting funds to the facilities to be able to test for problems....therefore possibly saving lives. Instead of things not being tested and later the child die of the problem.


But of course....I still am not a fan of most testing and such...lol. But for different reasons than many people.
post #44 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedOne View Post
I have been on medicaid, I know the system relatively well. Thankfully I have chosen not to have the government as a cruch. And now I just try to avoid situations that require medical assistance. So much easier that way....lol.
I know that not everyone is left without health care. What I am saying is that no one should be without.

I also see how, within the current system, using medicaid or other government assistance can be seen as a crutch. Avoiding as much as humanly possible the need for medical assistance is something that everyone should do.

However, universal health care payed collectively through taxes, instead of all of the money already spent on health care through taxes which amount to much more per capita than most other countries, as well as the health care industry becoming a non-profit industry are, in my opinion, long-term, ethical, human rights based solutions. The very principle of a hospital operating with the ultimate goal of making profit and answering to investors is scary. It is bad enough that medicine is such a patriarchal institution, making it a business too is just wrong. It is not just a manner of money, it is an issue of agency, human rights, dignity and morality. I am not saying that our system is perfect, but it is designed in a way that makes it much harder for patients to be taken advantage of and much easier for them to choose what kind of care they want.
There is no need here for a program to test newborns in the way this bill attempts to do because we are all free to seek care from whoever we want, get a second opinion, have a midwife leave the test kit with us at home to do when we see fit (for PKU at least) or refuse it altogether. The fact that insurance companies and other profit-seeking people are not involved makes the whole lawsuit and liability thing much more reasonable, where if a doctor messes up, he can be sanctioned and money awarded to the victim in a logical way.

Overall, my point is that no matter how many improvements are made to the current American system, the main problems will remain as long as health care is a business in the US and doctor-patient relationships cannot truly improve if money is the driving force behind it.

I am sorry, I am getting a little tired, I hope this makes sense, otherwise I'll edit it in the morning.
post #45 of 61
I wasn't going to chime into the discussion again, because I have very strong feelings that are pretty opposite what many on here feel about universal health care. I have many friends in the health care field, and they all feel that it is not the answer, and having listened to their arguments and researched it, I agree with them. I don't want the government paying for my health care. It will give them more power over my options and I'm not for that. We can't have it two ways. People want less government control, yet are blindly willing to hand it over for free medical care. I just don't see the perks to the majority of people. If you go to the ER and are ill, county hospitals can not turn you away. They will set up payment plans with you. Will it be expensive? Sure. But it's still there.

As for the DNA, someone mentioned swiping DNA off a cup in public as theft. And no, legally it is not. If you leave your DNA behind you've left it and have no claim on it anymore. Fair? No. Legal? Yes (as far as my understanding goes.). I really don't see the problem if this will save babies lives. And I'm sure there's an opt-out.

As for the amount Dr's. charge, that is their right. When you've spent years and years going to school, med school, doing residencys, basically spending a good chunk of your life training for a position, I think you have the right to charge a much higher sum than the average person. Doctors have valuable skills most people need and should be paid accordingly.
post #46 of 61
I'm not for the government being able to take my kids' DNA - if that's what the bill is indeed stating. I can't tell. That seems to be the purpose sometimes. It's an invasion of privacy. Period. When ds was in public school I never even did those "If your kid gets kidnapped, don't you want their fingerprints, etc. on file?" It's all too suspicious for me. Call me crazy or a conspiracy fruitcake - but that's just me

The other thing about Medicaid. There's a little bit of truth to what pps have been saying but it's a lot more complicated than what's being explained. I have a daughter with Rett Syndrome - it's serious, it's complicated, it's life long. She's uninsurable. We do not qualify according to the medicaid guidelines. I think dh would have to make 25K or less a year for a family of FIVE to qualify our dd. Even discounted state insurance (CHIPs) you have to make less than 50K. We make a living but we're just getting by. Health insurance is crazy. Anyway, long story short, we were fortunate enough to meet a family who told us about a loop hole to get past the financial requirement and the waiting list (which is 8-10 YEARS long) so she could be insured. If we hadn't met that family, she'd still be uninsured and we'd probably be in at least 50 K of debt - low balling it - and she's only been dxed for 3 yrs. It's not easy to get on Medicaid. It's not just paperwork and waiting in line. People are always shocked when I tell them about great programs that have been set up for indiduals like dd that literally have waiting lists of 10 yrs. We're on one now. Her number (8 thousand and something) will come up when she's a teenager.

Oh, I do blame the gov't for what going on in health care. Health care is big $$. They hire lobbyists to make sure that they have the necessary # of politicians in their pockets so they can charge, neglect, refuse who/what they wish. It's a top down thing. I don't think my ped. is charging $75 a visit b/c he's paying dues to the lobbyists. But I do believe that there are several organizations that make sure their lobbyists get certain bills passed so they can operate in unethical ways. That's why there are issues w/campaign contributions. The people on the Hill are bought and paid for.
post #47 of 61
i agree it is an invasion of privacy- but only if you choose to participate, which negates the 'invasion' part. the government has a whole lotta programs that i dont jive with, and i make the choice whether or not to participate. as long as there is that choice, i am not afraid of it.

no offense, but i have always thought the medicaid cutoffs were too high, not too low- our family of 5 would still qualify if we made $74, 000/ year! is it different in other states? i am in missouri.
post #48 of 61
OMG! If that were the cutoff here, we would definitely qualify! States do their own thing I think. Here in TX the cut off for 5 is about 25K, the cutoff for 6 (which we'll be in June) is 28-29K. I am just floored!
post #49 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by tabitha View Post
no offense, but i have always thought the medicaid cutoffs were too high, not too low- our family of 5 would still qualify if we made $74, 000/ year! is it different in other states? i am in missouri.
Don't you think every single person should get free health care? I am trying really hard to look at it from the other point of view, put it is such a completely different paradigm, it just makes no sense to me how anyone would want to give the medical institution more power than they already have and how the idea of every single person should get free health care can be controversial. It does not reduce choices, it expands them. If I want to see a doctor, I can choose from any doctor I want, any hospital, clinic, private office. I can get second, third, fourth opinions. I can get treated if I am sick before it becomes worst as I do not have to worry about getting a bill. And if I have a complaint, I am not up against a multi-billion private industry, I am up against non-profit, government supervised organizations. And if I still want to sue, I'll even get a free lawyer. If I want a midwife, I do not have to worry about her fee. If I want to refuse tests, I do not have to worry about a money-hungry practice trying to bully me into it to get my money. Right now, my (7$ a day...) daycare provider's husband is in the hospital, about to get some life-saving surgery and a friend of mine is battling breast cancer. I cannot imagine how much more traumatic this would be to them if money ever was an issue or if they had to justify every treatment to an insurance company.

Back to the original topic, I am just saying that access to testing for every baby (if the parents want it) would never be an issue that would require to pass a potentially problematic bill for if there was a health care system similar to Canada.
post #50 of 61
I've been reading about this for a few weeks. I'm very concerned. I'd like to find out if there are any labs which will not participate with this program.

http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/...u-or-does.html this blog goes into some interesting detail on the history of the PKU and other testing which I hadn't known about before.
post #51 of 61
Quote:
no offense, but i have always thought the medicaid cutoffs were too high, not too low- our family of 5 would still qualify if we made $74, 000/ year! is it different in other states? i am in missouri.
Not in Idaho. We barely qualify at $25k.
post #52 of 61
About health care -- my son's medicine costs about $20,000 a month. That's before doctor's visits and emergencies. And that's for a genetic condition, inherited just like you inherit the color of your eyes or the color of your skin. If we paid for private insurance, it would run us between $20-30thousand a year, which combined with daycare would be more than the amount of either of our salaries. Again, this is for a genetic condition that is inherited just like the color of your skin. If we paid for private insurance, we would lose the insurance within three years, because we would hit their 1 million dollar cap in that time. And then they'd kick him off their policy and refuse to cover him. In the meantime, they'd raise the premiums for everyone in the company over $1,000 a month and they'd reduce the amount of things they cover, with the result that the company couldn't afford to give any of their employees good health care coverage, all due to my son. And this happens to people with three-figure salaries and gold-standard insurance, too. I know a family who, when his son was kicked off his gold-standard insurance policy, was told that he should divorce his wife so that she could qualify for medicaid.

The aim of private insurance is to weed out high-cost patients like my son. And they are very successful at it. But people suffer, just because of the way they were born. And businesses and coworkers suffer, and businesses can't hire new employees when someone like my son is on their policy. So the parents end up losing their job or having to quit in order to not affect the company badly. It's pure discrimination.

We are trying to live on our state's SCHIP limits in order to qualify for insurance, but it's almost impossible. And now with the cost of gas and food rising, I don't know what we're going to do. We have applied for disability purely to get insurance, because their income limits are higher and would allow us to make ends meet, but there is no guarantee we'll be accepted, even if our son deserves it. Disability can be difficult to get.

So you're fine with the government paying a firefighter to come to your neighbor's house when it's on fire, you're fine with paying for libraries and education, you're fine with paying for police, but the government paying for doctors is inconceivable to you?

The education comparison is the best. A few hundred years ago only the rich got educated, because only they could afford it. Then we started thinking of it as a right rather than a privilege, and now everyone can be educated. Now the issue is health care. It's only marginally affordable for regular healthy people, and if there's anything wrong with you you have to be rich or very, very poor in order to get health insurance. What we need to do is change our thinking about it, just as we did with education. Everyone has a right to good health care.
post #53 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by April422 View Post
We declined the PKU testing with our children. I don't see anyting in the bill that makes it mandatory.
I tried to decline the PKU. A social worker came and told me that if I left the hospital without the test, they would call DCFS on me. My main objection was their refusal to let either me or her father even be present in the room when they did it. Sketchy as fudge.
post #54 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by tabitha View Post
i agree it is an invasion of privacy- but only if you choose to participate, which negates the 'invasion' part. the government has a whole lotta programs that i dont jive with, and i make the choice whether or not to participate. as long as there is that choice, i am not afraid of it.

no offense, but i have always thought the medicaid cutoffs were too high, not too low- our family of 5 would still qualify if we made $74, 000/ year! is it different in other states? i am in missouri.
no wonder we have simular views on medicaid.....we are in the same area. In this area there has not been much of an issue getting on medicaid. I know soooooo many people that have been or are on medicaid and are definitely not really struggling. For instance, we had some friends that were on it and they had just bought themselves a new Lexus. My point is that most people could probably handle average med bills just fine if they would readjust their priorities.....such as hold off on buying a new Lexus.....lol. Or stop smoking and drinking.......all of that stuff adds up to a lot of money. That is personally why I think they should screen people better. Atleast in this area, pretty much all of the people that drink, smoke, do drugs are on some form of medicaid. But in reality if they just stopped their habbits, then they could afford normal health care and truthfully probably would not need it as much...lol.
I will say that we were declined the second time around when we were up for renewal (we made about 30K)...but the offiice said that if we appealed we would probably be accepted. But we really did not need it anymore. The main reason why I even got on it in the first place was to cover dr and hospital bills for me and baby. And it covered all of them. The only thing I ever had to pay was a 2 dollar co-pay on my birth control.
I believe they base the income cutoff on how many people you have in your family. At the time it was just my hubby and me and one child living on about 30 k. So that was slightly over their cut off. But I am pretty sure that if we had all of our 3 kids at that time and living off of that much, then we would have been accepted without any question.

Honestly we could probably go get it now with the size of our family and our income....even though it is more than the 30 k we were originally on....but again I think they might go by person to income ratio. So with that being said, assumingly if a family with one child has a cut off of 25 k, then a family with 4 children would have a higher cut off.
I know that with my dd's school lunches, they had us fill out a family income survey. They had you list your incomes and how many people were living in the house that lived off of that income and such. They then took it according to ratio. For instance, my dd did not qualify for free lunches but did qualify for a certain reduced price lunch. Although I have friends that have less kids than us (also less income) and their children got cheaper lunches than my dd. And this was not just a school thing, it was a government assistance system. We did not use it at first, but then when we realized that we were going to be spending over 400 dollars on her lunches alone, we decided to take advantage of it .....we pay our taxes....we might as well get a perk from it....lol. They also sent home forms for medicaid, but we did not bother filling them out. I was tempted occationally when my son was going to the dr every week or two (for months) at 75-100 a trip and having several tests done (which of course are extra)....the office said we would probably qualify, but we chose to not do it...so we just paid out of pocket.

And to tell a different story, my aunt (different than the one I talked about earlier) is on medicare and she is going to be getting gastric bipass surgery through her medicare! Which by the way is a very pricey surgery.....several thousands of dollars. And it is not really a medical emergency...she is just overweight (which of course is not healthy) and wants to get the weight off.

And yes all of us live in the same area.


And in regards to out of pocket medical bills(meaning no insurance or government help)........
Atleast many of the facilities in this area will set you up with a no interest payment plan. You can pay as little as 25-50 dollars a month on your bill of thousands and thousands of dollars....and you can keep paying it that way until it is paid off or until the day you die...whichever comes first. If you do not pay, they just torment you, but they do not charge any interest. So in reality....many out of pocket patients will never pay their med bill off if doing a low payment plan. To my knowledge the bill is dropped once you die. I do not belive it gets passed to a family member. It might if you have a living spouse or if it was a child (under 18)that was living with the parents and the parents are still living. I do not know the rules on all of that. But I am pretty sure if a single 50 year old women died with her med bills not paid, then it would not carry down to anyone else. But again, I am not sure how it all works.

There are tons of rules and loop holes and such when it all comes to that type of thing.
post #55 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by boigrrrlwonder View Post
I tried to decline the PKU. A social worker came and told me that if I left the hospital without the test, they would call DCFS on me. My main objection was their refusal to let either me or her father even be present in the room when they did it. Sketchy as fudge.
yeah many times I have realized that when you try to go against the grain, that they try to scare people with social workers (when involving children)...that has happened to me a couple of time. They feel that if they start threatening the risk of losing your kids then you will quickly change your mind. With me they never tried to take my kids.........man would they have been up for a fight....but they would try to throw scare tactics on out. I even got looked into by a social worker for having my child at my house!!

Too much red tape!
post #56 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbravebird View Post
The education comparison is the best. A few hundred years ago only the rich got educated, because only they could afford it. Then we started thinking of it as a right rather than a privilege, and now everyone can be educated. Now the issue is health care. It's only marginally affordable for regular healthy people, and if there's anything wrong with you you have to be rich or very, very poor in order to get health insurance. What we need to do is change our thinking about it, just as we did with education. Everyone has a right to good health care.
post #57 of 61
I understand your thought on the education comparrison but keep in mind, schooling is not free as some tend to forget. Everyone pays taxes for school whether you have kids or not (atleast that is how it is here). It is no different with medical stuff, if you have a job you pay tax to all kinds of things....including medical stuff. But still health care is the way it is......
post #58 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by NatureMama3 View Post
Not in Idaho. We barely qualify at $25k.
In Alaska you qualify as a family of for at around 45K, I believe.
post #59 of 61
i wish I could say I was surprised.
post #60 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedOne View Post
Everyone pays taxes for school whether you have kids or not (atleast that is how it is here). It is no different with medical stuff, if you have a job you pay tax to all kinds of things....including medical stuff.
My point exactly. This country became willing to pay for education through taxes when we started seeing education as a right rather than a privilege. Now we need to learn to see health care the same way. And no, our taxes don't go toward seeing that health care is a right, not a privilege. Not yet.
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