Let's pretend: Gas is $10 a gallon - Page 9

[wednesday]

Originally Posted by MonkeyPrincess

There was an article my dh told me about that compared SUVs to hybrids. It broke down how much energy/cost/etc was involved making those hybrids - shipping them all over the world, a couple times over - and how over the life of the two kinds of vehicles, SUVs were actually less taxing on the environment.

I personally am very skeptical about hybrids. It seems the fuel economy is at best about 25% better than similarly sized "standard" vehicles. That 25% is too little, too late for the energy crisis our world is facing.

[zeldabee]

Originally Posted by FillingMyQuiver

So I ask you, which is better, a family who buys their SUV used, uses it for many years, drives conservatively and infrequently, or someone who buys a new hybrid every few years??

Neither. They're both over-consuming.

No idea what to say about your having a whole bunch of kids. That's your choice, and moving them around and feeding them will be something you have to deal with. I just have...no input that would be useful.

Originally Posted by FillingMyQuiver

Because honestly, hybrids are the new "cool" thing, but people's consumerist mentality hasn't changed. So the buying new and replacing every few years attitude IS going to carry over into the new "green" vehicles.

I agree that hybrids aren't the answer. They're not enough. I'd like to see what the technology can do, but no, they're not enough, not even close.

There's a really good movie that came out a few years ago called The End of Suburbia (I think, I'm at work and I'm not gonna google it) that really goes into these issues pretty thoroughly. It's worth a look.

[Erin+babyAndrew]

Hybrids are definitely not the answer and neither is biodiesel. Electric cars will be good providing more wind turbines can be established, but air powered cars will be amazing. http://zeropollutionmotors.us/?page_id=36
seats 6 too

[SAHDS]

Originally Posted by zeldabee

You know, I have a problem with SUVs in general--a powerful truck engine with a heavy truck chassis being used to carry around kids and groceries.

Not to split hairs, but the Pilot is on a car frame, doesn't have a ridiculous amount of horsepower and is decent on gas mileage.

As I said before, most of this will become academic anyway. You simply won't have the option of driving it around any more. It will become too impractical.

We have 2 other cars. It's not as if I take the Pilot to run to the grocery store by myself. I have a civic for running around town. BUT, when we have our kids, with their friends, that's 2 adults and 4 boosters. We need an SUV for times like these. We used it last weekend to drive across state. We had our overnight bags and hanging clothes, with plenty of time to stretch out. I've down cross-country road trips in the Civic and it's miserable. So ,I suppose that's a convenience, but it was better than suffering, cramped in 100 degree weather.

I understand that a lot of people have them for the novelty or because it's a 'trend', but we really use ours for it's intended purpose.

And just because gas prices are rising has nothing to do w/ my driving habits since I only drive it when needed. Those needs won't change. Sure, it sucks to pay that much for gas, but you do what you have to do.

[zeldabee]

Originally Posted by Erin+babyAndrew

Hybrids are definitely not the answer and neither is biodiesel. Electric cars will be good providing more wind turbines can be established, but air powered cars will be amazing. http://zeropollutionmotors.us/?page_id=36
seats 6 too

Those are cool, and the geek in me is drooling over them. Don't know just how they works out in terms of energy--how much it takes to compress the air... leaving aside for a moment the production cost (because as with any car, that's huge...). I'm hoping that there's some kind of technology that will really be workable, that will make life a little easier. I would be a reluctant Luddite.

[Erin+babyAndrew]

Originally Posted by zeldabee

Those are cool, and the geek in me is drooling over them. Don't know just how they works out in terms of energy--how much it takes to compress the air... leaving aside for a moment the production cost (because as with any car, that's huge...). I'm hoping that there's some kind of technology that will really be workable, that will make life a little easier. I would be a reluctant Luddite.

I can't remember if it was that car or a different one, but there is one coming that is 100% recylable too. good things are coming! If people keep abusing fossil fuels we will burn ourselves off the planet.

[Jennifer Z]

People that judge me for getting my reusable bags out of an SUV really have no clue how I live my life, just because I drive an SUV.

First of all, it was the only car we could afford. We shopped for a long time and this was the best car we could find in our price range (which was really low, btw...the total, including taxes & tags was about $3.5K). Plus, it does better than our COMPACT CAR for running expenses. So, actually, driving the compact, which is horribly uncomfortable for us because we are not petite people, would actually be worse for the environment.

Second, I would bet money that we spend a heck of a lot less gas than nearly everybody else out in that parking lot. We don't drive very far at all, and we consolidate trips or go without most of the time. I would walk more places, but between my bad back, a toddler that sprints, and a ds who is autistic and low tone, walking is a real challenge and not that safe. In Kansas, where everything is spread out, it is almost unheard of to only have to fill up every two weeks or so with the main family car. (although that will be increasing since dh's new job is downtown, but it still isn't the kind of commute you get in bigger cities. We would move to be closer, but in a year the company is breaking ground at a location very close to us, so we will have a year of higher usage, then back to normal)

[Jennifer Z]

And one more thing...instead of making fun of people that pull reausable bags out of SUVs, wouldn't you rather praise them for at least making one change, even if it is a small one? Everybody starts somewhere, even if it is done for fashion sake, at least it is a start, and they are paying attention, and they might be starting to make other changes as they learn.

[CameronsMama]

Originally Posted by Jennifer Z

And one more thing...instead of making fun of people that pull reausable bags out of SUVs, wouldn't you rather praise them for at least making one change, even if it is a small one? Everybody starts somewhere, even if it is done for fashion sake, at least it is a start, and they are paying attention, and they might be starting to make other changes as they learn.

That is actually a VERY good point.

[zeldabee]

Originally Posted by SAHDS

Not to split hairs, but the Pilot is on a car frame, doesn't have a ridiculous amount of horsepower and is decent on gas mileage.

So, is that really an SUV, or is it a minivan? Or a crossover? It sounds like you're mostly talking about cargo and people, as opposed to, say, off-road or towing capability. (Not splitting hairs, I don't actually know.) I have no doubt that the thing is useful and more comfortable than a sedan or a coupe.

I keep going back to this, but our definition of "need" is going to evolve pretty quickly, and how it all balances out between convenience and cost. Being able to go anywhere you want on a whim, and haul a bunch of stuff with you without a second thought is not going to be something that we can take for granted any more.

I've been driving about 3 years, after moving here from NYC. I'm not completely reconciled to car culture, but I'm not immune to its allure. It's really convenient to be able to just jump in the car and go someplace without thinking about it. I love driving. I just don't feel, down in my gut, that I'm necessarily entitled to do it.

[J-Max]

Long!

Originally Posted by timneh_mom

I think if gas were $10 per gallon, it would collapse our economy. If people stopped going places and stopped buying things, (since that's what makes our world go 'round), the country would be in a world of hurt.
I fear many people would literally starve. It would just be too much for a lot of folks.

Originally Posted by kittywitty

Very true. And heating costs.

Originally Posted by A&A

Gas at $10 a gallon is about SO MUCH MORE than just filling up your tank and deciding how much you can drive. If gas is at $10, diesel would probably be at $12. And diesel fuels the things that transport our goods to us. Think groceries at triple the cost, if you could even get them.

I am buried in farm country, we live on/help/partially own the large family cattle and wheat ranch, plus DH's livelihood is completely dependent on farming, so this really strikes a cord with me. The cost of farm is SO expensive right now and lots of people are getting out, which will only raise food costs again, along with the cost rise associated with more expensive freight costs. Every time a tractor goes over the field (even organic fields have to be planted, harvested, and often fertilized) costs diesel fuel.

Originally Posted by MomInFlux

.... Food will be more expensive, but we're moving to an area with lots of local, organic farms, so the farmers aren't dependent on oil for fertilizer ....

Farmers are still dependant on oil, even if they are not using fertilizer (which many do).

Originally Posted by Erin+babyAndrew

Have you considered moving closer to work? ......

This is not always quite so easy as many think. We live in the family house on a very large farm and ranch. We have 4 kids, dogs, horses, and 40 show cows - now yes we could sell these and move to town, but it is not as easy as some think.


I am another of those SUV driving people:. But yes, while I drive it to get groceries and haul my kids around, I also hauled trailers, feed (like a ton or 2 at a time), and lots of other big, heavy things. Last week I took a semen tank to get filled with nitrogen, many of those things could not be done with a smaller car/minivan. There are times of the year I HAVE to have 4 wheel drive to get in and out of you house.

$10 a gallon gas would be very hard on our community as well as our family. We can not walk to anything. We live 22 miles from the tiny town with a school, PO, and a little corner market. The are already struggling to pay for gas for the buses. 80% of the students on our district are bussed to school. They already combined down to 4 bus route for this year and my kids ride for almost an hour. They would either have to combine more route or close . We are a farming community with all most all of the families involved with farming to some point, so the gas price is directly related to their success.
My dh has a 50 mile each way commute, but often drives over 1000 miles/month for work. He has a company truck and gas, but I don't know what would happen with that. There would be MAJOR changes to his work at $10/gal gas.
I already only go into the bigger towns (either 72 or 100 miles away) at the very most once per week, and usually once every 2 weeks. I have always only gotten groc once a month, so that would not change. I would grow a bigger garden and put more up - I already try to increase what I grow and put up a bit each year. We raise our own beef, but the price of feed is increasing as well, so that makes everyone's meat more expensive. My kids would not do any extracurriculars, Right now they are playing baseball which averages to about 50miles/week driving. We are such a small school we play the other small schools in the county.

Sorry if this is rambling, I am really tired.

[caedmyn]

Answering the OP here...we're in the process of buying a house that's 10 miles outside city limits. I'm actually a little leery about it because of rising fuel costs, but it was definitely the best deal we found and has a HUGE yard, plus at current gas prices the extra we'll spend on gas will be offset by lower property taxes.

Anyhow, there's no public transportation outside city limits and it's too far to bike/walk to town, so I guess I would only go to town once a week and DH would have to stay in town all day if he had gaps between jobs/appts/etc. I suppose we'd try to sell our house if we could if gas was that high. DH's car gets 40 MPG on the highway but maybe he could get a motorcycle or something for the maybe 4-5 months of the year that they're rideable (lots of snow here). Our family car gets 30 MPG on the highway but maybe we would consider selling it and getting a compact, if we could all fit in it with carseats and whatnot. I'd like to have four kids if I think I could handle them but knowing that we'd need more than a car for a larger family is definitely a consideration for me.

[graceomalley]

It's already $6.60 a gallon for me, so we've been making changes for a long time. My DH worked for a guy who has built an electric car and he has just received a government grant so hopefully they're going to kick into production at a factory before too long. We only live a 5 minute walk from the city centre, so we tend to walk rather than use the car.

Diesel is $7.40 a gallon.

[tamagotchi]

I am sure that $10 per gallon would make a lot of changes in the larger economy, but as for our personal lives, not much would have to change. We live across the street from the grocery store, and within walking distance to everything else we need, including a public transit hub that takes us everywhere else we want to go. We eat mostly local, sustainable food and have enough space for a garden and chickens (that we are planning on adding to our lives soon). We have an xtracycle for hauling people and stuff around town. We do use the car occasionally now, but only for pleasure trips (zoo, beach, etc).

I would hope that gas $10 per gallon would encourage:

more telecommuting (allowing more time with family)

people spending more time in their neighborhoods

more cooperation among neighbors

victory gardens everywhere

[tamagotchi]

Originally Posted by Jessmcg

Farmers are still dependant on oil, even if they are not using fertilizer (which many do).

Not all farmers. For example http://www.livepower.org/

[A&A]

For those of you who live in the suburbs, and would move to the city if gas were $10/gal, just whom do you think would WANT TO BUY your piece of suburbia that has neither the benefits of the city nor the country??

PS. I get up to 35 mpg. in my SUV. (Ford Escape hybrid.) So I *DO* take my reusable bags out of my SUV! But it's a hybrid. Some people may not notice the little word "hybrid" on the vehicle, though. We bought one that was "California certified," meaning that it has super low emissions.

[A&A]

Originally Posted by tamagotchi

Not all farmers. For example http://www.livepower.org/

Cool, but oil is still used. They supply to 160 households ("in the bay area.") Do all of those families walk to the food, and walk it back home?

[Erin+babyAndrew]

Originally Posted by A&A

For those of you who live in the suburbs, and would move to the city if gas were $10/gal, just whom do you think would WANT TO BUY your piece of suburbia that has neither the benefits of the city nor the country??

PS. I get up to 35 mpg. in my SUV. (Ford Escape hybrid.)

exactly. I would think it wise to sell now while it's possible. It could take a while, but better than waiting too long and having to foreclose.

[Knittin' in the Shade]

Originally Posted by Erin+babyAndrew

exactly. I would think it wise to sell now while it's possible. It could take a while, but better than waiting too long and having to foreclose.

who says it's even possible now? There are houses in my neighborhood that have been for sale for many, many months.

[SAHDS]

Originally Posted by zeldabee

So, is that really an SUV, or is it a minivan? Or a crossover? It sounds like you're mostly talking about cargo and people, as opposed to, say, off-road or towing capability. (Not splitting hairs, I don't actually know.) I have no doubt that the thing is useful and more comfortable than a sedan or a coupe.

We've yet to tow anything with it, but we've only had it maybe 2 weeks. Maybe when/if we get a boat or jet skis, but right now it's used for carrying more people than my Civic. We'll use it for camping and other vacations come summertime also. Like I said, we don't drive it that much, just when needed.

And, I think it is technically a crossover... don't quote me, though