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Let's pretend: Gas is $10 a gallon - Page 5

post #81 of 237
I live to far from work, so I do have to drive there. I do have a trader joes right next to my work, so I guess I will be doing lots of shopping there, while im on breaks at work.
we will not be going out anywhere, although there is a bus line on our street, so I can take the girls places that way. How do I get a bus schedual anyways LOL. I can take the bus to the train line the next town over so if we want to go into Boston we can.
Theres plenty to do, I think I just have gotten so used to using the van. Its easier. I was going to leave my job but now I can not afford to.

I wish I could trade in my van, but I would owe more than I would get
post #82 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandy'smama View Post
I do not need to pretend our gas is $11.25/gal but it is great reading your thoughts.
I loved visiting Europe! When I went to Germany, I was really thrilled at how easy it was to get around without a car. DH had to work (he was on a business trip) so I was on my own for most of the days we were there. It was SO easy to catch a bus (came by 4 times an hour, twice an hour to each stop, and I had two stops literally within 200 feet). The bus station was right at the train station and I could take a train to a neighboring city. From there, I could take another bus if I wanted. Taxis were there too but a lot more expensive. Gas was slightly more there then (2001) than it is here now. Also parking was very limited, so when DH and I went somewhere together, that was always a little difficult.

I noticed that apartment buildings had garden areas. In fact when I took the train I saw many groups of garden plots not near any buildings at all.

There was no urban sprawl. Houses were all somewhat centrally located and when you got out into the country, it was just countryside and roads (and the occasional castle - Rhineland area).

But the thing about Europe is that all of these things have been in place a long time. It will take a lot of years and LOTS of $$$$ to put these things in place in this country. Some things will not be possible (limiting urban sprawl, for example). If we had trains and buses here like we did when I visited Germany, I'd be able to catch a bus twice an hour to get to town, then get on a train in town and go visit the next town. No trains here though, only for the chemical company, the car parts factory and some probably haul grain and stuff from the farms. I'd have to drive over an hour to get to the nearest Amtrak station. I have seen a bus around here but it's one of those "dial a ride" things, no regular schedule, you call them, they pick you up, and I have no idea what it costs.

I was in a suburb of Chicago a few years ago and there weren't even any sidewalks!! It was fun trying to cross 6 lanes of traffic with no crossing signal. Fortunately there were concrete islands. But I had to walk across the grass, and take a taxi to the mall that I could SEE from the hotel. Because there was NO safe place to walk. It was sad. (Now the city of Chicago has the El and other choices, but this was a suburb.)
post #83 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin+babyAndrew View Post
I chuckle at the people I see with their reusable bags getting out of their SUV's.. kinda missing the point there aren't they? I guess one thing is better than nothing.
And it's statements like this that reek of an environmentally elitist attitude. We drive a 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee. It's owned out-right, we drive conservatively choosing to only use the SUV about 1 or 2 times/ week. We bought it used from a friend of the family, knowing full well that it's an SUV that doesn't get the kind of gas mileage a more fuel efficient car would... BUT...

We have 3 car seats across the back. 2 are Britax Regents for my 4yo and 2.5yo and a Radian in the middle for the 6mo. I don't know of ANY car that could fit those 3 seats. We haul quite a bit in the cargo space of that SUV, including our trash and recycling b/c we don't have trash pick up where we live (unless you want to pay an ASTRONOMICAL price for it). We travel about 1x every 3 months to visit family 350 miles away and we can fit all our luggage for the 5 of us in the cargo space. Plus, when we bought it, we knew the full history of the car and got a GREAT, below blue book value price for it.

AND I use reusable bags at the grocery store. My family's life is full of green choices we consciously make to better the environment. To say that we're missing the point b/c we drive a vehicle that doesn't meet "green standards" even though EVERYTHING else in our life does is down right rude. There are MANY mamas on this forum and on MDC that don't drive "green" vehicles but make green choices everywhere else in their lives. That doesn't mean they're "missing the point".

Sorry for the rant
post #84 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garden~Lover View Post
I live to far from work, so I do have to drive there.
Have you considered moving closer to work? If I was you, and there are a zillion people in your shoes, I'd be selling that house and moving to a walkable community, like, yesterday Gas is only going to get more expensive. At the current rate of use, there is only enough gas to last 50 years, at the very most 100 years. We could very likely see the end of gasoline in our lifetime. The good news is that electric and air powered cars are coming, but I shudder to think how much gas is going to cost by then. The gas companies want to make as much money as they can while people are still willing to pay for it.
post #85 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by FillingMyQuiver View Post
And it's statements like this that reek of an environmentally elitist attitude. We drive a 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee. It's owned out-right, we drive conservatively choosing to only use the SUV about 1 or 2 times/ week. We bought it used from a friend of the family, knowing full well that it's an SUV that doesn't get the kind of gas mileage a more fuel efficient car would... BUT...

We have 3 car seats across the back. 2 are Britax Regents for my 4yo and 2.5yo and a Radian in the middle for the 6mo. I don't know of ANY car that could fit those 3 seats. We haul quite a bit in the cargo space of that SUV, including our trash and recycling b/c we don't have trash pick up where we live (unless you want to pay an ASTRONOMICAL price for it). We travel about 1x every 3 months to visit family 350 miles away and we can fit all our luggage for the 5 of us in the cargo space. Plus, when we bought it, we knew the full history of the car and got a GREAT, below blue book value price for it.

AND I use reusable bags at the grocery store. My family's life is full of green choices we consciously make to better the environment. To say that we're missing the point b/c we drive a vehicle that doesn't meet "green standards" even though EVERYTHING else in our life does is down right rude. There are MANY mamas on this forum and on MDC that don't drive "green" vehicles but make green choices everywhere else in their lives. That doesn't mean they're "missing the point".

Sorry for the rant
Oh gosh mama, I totally didn't mean that towards any fellow MDCers. I know there are lots who drive and also make a lot of good green decisions. I was talking about the yuppies who drive *everywhere* are decked out in brand new designer clothing, buying heavily packaged imported foods etc.... and using reusable bags is their only contribution.
post #86 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by FillingMyQuiver View Post
And it's statements like this that reek of an environmentally elitist attitude. We drive a 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee. It's owned out-right, we drive conservatively choosing to only use the SUV about 1 or 2 times/ week. We bought it used from a friend of the family, knowing full well that it's an SUV that doesn't get the kind of gas mileage a more fuel efficient car would.

The environmental impact of cars can be broken down roughly into thirds
1/3 - manufacturing
1/3 - operating pollution (exhaust)
1/3 - final disposal

Mend and make due, and you are delaying the last 1/3, buy used and you are delaying the first 1/3... A used SUV will be lower impact than a new prius for a loooong time.
post #87 of 237
Have you considered moving closer to work? If I was you, and there are a zillion people in your shoes, >>>>>

LOL wouldnt that be nice. my LONG drive is 6 minutes LOL. Its long for me just b.c I hate to comute. (and I would be living on the highway)
dh work is 3 minutes from our house. so we already do that
post #88 of 237
We already drive a tiny car that gets good mileage. We can't afford a hybrid. I was just about to call a neurologist in Cleveland to see if she could help my DD but even at $4 a gallon, I may not be able to transfer her care up there. So that would be completely out of the question.

That's my biggest problem. At $10 a gallon (or even cheaper) my DD gets substandard care.

We would walk as much as possible, but we have to drive DD to all her appointments and we can't change that. I would try to consolidate some appointments (actually I do that sometimes already). But she can't take a whole lot of poking and prodding in one day so we go easy on her.
post #89 of 237
we would get my husband a motorcycle as he works 40 minutes from one of his jobs. Then we would stay home except for one day a week for church and errands. We would give up pretty much all our activities. It would suck and would be very depressing.
post #90 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garden~Lover View Post
Have you considered moving closer to work? If I was you, and there are a zillion people in your shoes, >>>>>

LOL wouldnt that be nice. my LONG drive is 6 minutes LOL. Its long for me just b.c I hate to comute. (and I would be living on the highway)
dh work is 3 minutes from our house. so we already do that

so you live close to work but you HAVE to drive? I don't understand..
post #91 of 237
so you live close to work but you HAVE to drive? I don't understand..>>>>>

I cant ride a bike on the highway.
its not like I work down the street. Now my husband on the other hand does, he makes more money, so we will not be moving. I will not ever risk my life by riding a bike to work, and no buses go near there.
not to mention there is a 1/2 hr window for me to get to work. I have to wait for ds to get home from school before I leave to baby sit.
post #92 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garden~Lover View Post
so you live close to work but you HAVE to drive? I don't understand..>>>>>

I cant ride a bike on the highway.

really? there isn't even a shoulder?

I realize it's taking a lot of cities some time to develop thier bicycle paths, but if you look closely there is often a lot more than people realize. My city is putting $300,000 into making the city even more bicycle friendly in the next 3? years. It's very exciting. Even my husband who is an avid cyclist is still discovering more cycling routes around here. When people aren't always focused on the roads being the only way to get around there is suddenly a whole other world full of routes to get around. I'm not sure what the laws are in your city, but here cyclist are expected to ride in the lane closest to the curb, not on the sidewalks except for children. We have found that the cycle trails are phenomenal, we don't even need to ride in much traffic and we can get places even faster than if we were driving since it's often more direct.
post #93 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin+babyAndrew View Post
we wouldn't do anything differenty. dh already bicycle commutes to work and he doesn't need an engine on it, he actually uses his muscle power and I must say he's getting in great shape Imagine that, a bicycle without an engine... hmmm... http://www.dutchbike.co.uk/Work.htm i'd love one of these with the big bucket on the front for the kids (you can get seatbelts for them) but for now we pull the kids around in the trailer.
I take the kids to the grocery store every second day, we buy a LOT of produce so I like it to be fresh. My oldest rides his bicycle and I put my 2 yo in one side of our mountain buggy urban double. I use the empty seat as a shopping cart so I don't even need to use any type of bag at all I chuckle at the people I see with their reusable bags getting out of their SUV's.. kinda missing the point there aren't they? I guess one thing is better than nothing.
In the winter months, DH takes the bus to work. I walk the kids to school every day.
Wow, you're just teeming with judgement there, aren't you? People using bikes with engines, people driving SUVs with reusable bags - anyone else you like to aim your keen eye at? I suppose you'd have judgement for me as well, with my 4 boys overpopulating the Earth, driving my minivan to fit them all, lugging my wal-mart reusable bags, and a DH who is considering getting a motor for his bike so he can do the 44 mile round-trip to work and we can get rid of his car.
post #94 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knittin' in the Shade View Post
Wow, you're just teeming with judgement there, aren't you? People using bikes with engines, people driving SUVs with reusable bags - anyone else you like to aim your keen eye at? I suppose you'd have judgement for me as well, with my 4 boys overpopulating the Earth, driving my minivan to fit them all, lugging my wal-mart reusable bags, and a DH who is considering getting a motor for his bike so he can do the 44 mile round-trip to work and we can get rid of his car.
I do agree that a bicycle with an engine is better than a vehicle as far as emissions goes. I can see it being useful for a really long trip like your DH would have. I'm talking about the people who are relying solely on the engine and not pedalling at all. I see this frequently around here and while they *are* making an effort, what is wrong with pedalling?? electric *assist* bicycles are readily available here but I often see people on them and not pedalling at all. We live in the prairies btw, not very many hills and they are not hard to get over for most people.
I'm honestly surprised at the responses here, considering MDC is repeatedly touted as being the natural family living community.. I never in a million years thought I'd be labeled an "environmental elitist" here. I am flattered! :
post #95 of 237
What would we do differently... hmmm...

Well, there wouldn't be much as far as driving that would change. DH commutes about 50miles 1 way to work in A LOT of commuter traffic. But he drives an '01 2dr Honda Civic that is no where NEAR it's last legs. So he would continue driving that for his commute, but I think I would have him convince his boss to let him increase his telecommute days from 1 day/wk to at least 2 if not 3 days/wk.

And while I would think about moving closer to DH's work, it's just unrealistic for us. We have 3 kids, w/ a 4th due in December. To find a place w/ enough space for us, we would not be able to afford anywhere near where DH works. When we bought our home, we knew we were making the choice to "have to drive" everywhere. But, the trade offs were beneficial to us. While we have to drive to the grocery store 2 miles away (there are no designated bike/ walking lanes along the VERY busy road), the store is on DH's way home from work, so he can stop and pick up what we need.

We have a large enough piece of land that a LARGE garden is in the future AND there's space for the kids to run, and play, and be outdoors without having to go to a park, so I could continue to keep our driving to 1 or 2 days/ week.

We already try to combine trips and errands, we would just be even more diligent about it.

We would buy a freezer to make purchasing a 1/4 or 1/2 side of beef possible and more buying in bulk to cut down our dependence on the grocery store and increasing food prices. We try to buy as much locally as we can as is, we would just step this up a notch.

We have a wood stove, so we would use it more to supplement our electric heat, and we would probably look into getting a pellet stove for the main living floor (the wood stove is in the basement).

I would definitely be getting the deck line drying system I saw online so that I could hang dry our laundry more often without having to lug it far into the yard, making me less likely to do it.
post #96 of 237
I can't think of anything I'd do differently. I already consolidate effands as much as possible and I don't drive that much as it is.
post #97 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by FillingMyQuiver View Post
What would we do differently... hmmm...

Well, there wouldn't be much as far as driving that would change. DH commutes about 50miles 1 way to work in A LOT of commuter traffic. But he drives an '01 2dr Honda Civic that is no where NEAR it's last legs. So he would continue driving that for his commute, but I think I would have him convince his boss to let him increase his telecommute days from 1 day/wk to at least 2 if not 3 days/wk.

And while I would think about moving closer to DH's work, it's just unrealistic for us. We have 3 kids, w/ a 4th due in December. To find a place w/ enough space for us, we would not be able to afford anywhere near where DH works. When we bought our home, we knew we were making the choice to "have to drive" everywhere. But, the trade offs were beneficial to us. While we have to drive to the grocery store 2 miles away (there are no designated bike/ walking lanes along the VERY busy road), the store is on DH's way home from work, so he can stop and pick up what we need.

We have a large enough piece of land that a LARGE garden is in the future AND there's space for the kids to run, and play, and be outdoors without having to go to a park, so I could continue to keep our driving to 1 or 2 days/ week.

We already try to combine trips and errands, we would just be even more diligent about it.

We would buy a freezer to make purchasing a 1/4 or 1/2 side of beef possible and more buying in bulk to cut down our dependence on the grocery store and increasing food prices. We try to buy as much locally as we can as is, we would just step this up a notch.

We have a wood stove, so we would use it more to supplement our electric heat, and we would probably look into getting a pellet stove for the main living floor (the wood stove is in the basement).

I would definitely be getting the deck line drying system I saw online so that I could hang dry our laundry more often without having to lug it far into the yard, making me less likely to do it.
see, this is good. Doing other things to save $ and free up your personal resources to pay for the gas is great. I also love the fact that you are very aware of all your decisions and can make other decisions to compensate.
It's the people who think they are stuck and aren't able to see any other way to live kwim?
post #98 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin+babyAndrew View Post
I do agree that a bicycle with an engine is better than a vehicle as far as emissions goes. I can see it being useful for a really long trip like your DH would have. I'm talking about the people who are relying solely on the engine and not pedalling at all. I see this frequently around here and while they *are* making an effort, what is wrong with pedalling?? electric *assist* bicycles are readily available here but I often see people on them and not pedalling at all. We live in the prairies btw, not very many hills and they are not hard to get over for most people.
I'm honestly surprised at the responses here, considering MDC is repeatedly touted as being the natural family living community.. I never in a million years thought I'd be labeled an "environmental elitist" here. I am flattered! :
Honestly, mama, it's your tone and the blanket statements. There is a lot of judgment behind your statements without knowing the stories of the people your are judging. Just something to think about...

As far as Garden~Lover, I know that in the areas I've lived, bicycles are NOT allowed on the highway. So if she's talking about an interstate or other main highway like that (which in some cases are the only way to get to places), it would be illegal for her to ride a bike on it, and DANGEROUS beyond all get out.
post #99 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by annethcz View Post
I've thought the same thing about moving/selling houses. If gas does get that high, the value of my home would would probably drop. The value of homes closer to employment centers and transit stations would probably soar.
Good point, I hadn't really thought about how it would expand to housing values, but I'll bet you're right!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin+babyAndrew View Post
really? there isn't even a shoulder?
In many areas it is not legal to ride a bike on the highway, whether there is a shoulder or not because of safety reasons.
post #100 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin+babyAndrew View Post
really? there isn't even a shoulder?
I have to support Garden~Lover on this one. Although I don't know where she lives exactly, I'm in the same general area as she. I am an avid cyclist. I'm also one of those crazy cyclists who would rather take the busy congested street because I find that it's safer than some of the residential ones (too many sleepy drivers pulling out of their driveways). But there are some roads where it is simply not possible. And it will take more than just her kind request to the state, city or county to "fix" the problem.

I bike to the subway because there is a law against pedestrians and cyclists using the tunnel that I need to take in order to get to work. If I did not take that tunnel, I would need to travel 12 miles out of my way on an expressway which has approximately 8 to 12 inches between the white line and the raised curb shoulder. Those painted stripes are super slippery. Death by speeding and drunk drivers is a regular occurrence on this stretch. I know from personal discussions with state cycling advocates that it can be used but they would never ever willingly take it. I'm sure roads like that aren't the only ones in New England. I can think of quite a few areas in NY, Illinois and Cali that are the same.

So go easy on her, please.
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