"I would spank you if you were my child!" - Page 9

[Kessed]

Originally Posted by blessed

I think the part that was irksome was that the OP was criticizing this other mother for responding to hitting with indignation and anger - which many of us are arguing is one of the best ways to demonstrate to children that hitting is wrong. They see that hitting is serious business, and that it won't be tolerated.

I agree.

[soybeansmama]

Originally Posted by soybeansmama

I find it equally irksome and (quite ironic really) that people aren't even really reading the posts. The repetition is exhausting...

I was not mad at the other mamas anger...I was mad at what she said and even angrier at her gloating afterwards. There is a history of this in our relationship. We are making ammends. we have explained our frusteration to eachother and there has been forgiveness.

I have tried many approaches. this is serious for me. I have pulled ideas out of my ars on this issue.

I don't believe that hitting is ever ok...at any age...for all living creatures.

I will respost this as needed.

It's like I said...

[Kessed]

Originally Posted by monkey's mom

It always makes me laugh when I read the posts of, "Well, we just wouldn't allow it. Period."

Dude, my kid hit for a full year. Starting at 18 mos. he hit anything and everything. And yes, I worked my ass off on turning it around (you can read lots and lots of my posts in this forum about it). But my acceptance or not had NO effect on my kids hitting. None.

Yes - at 18 months this is normal behaviour...

The OPs child is MUCH older than 18 months. He's 4.

And that's a HUGE difference.

[monkey's mom]

I don't think so.

Not for a child with a new sibling.

Not for a child who has underlying food issues. Or sensory issues.

Or who has been exposed to hitting in other environments.

I don't think it's 100% common, but it's well within the realm of "normal"--depending on how frequently it's happening, what's provoked the hitting, the child's level of remorse, etc.

How many mamas have posted on here that they're kids have slapped them or a spouse and the adult had a knee-jerk reaction and hit back? It happens. It doesn't make them monsters or abusers. It doesn't make it right, but it happens.

[blessed]

Well, the OP's son will do fine. And so will everyone's children who have responded here today. We are all practicing gentle parenting and just disagree about the effectiveness of a particular approach.

We found something that seems to work well, even in difficult cases that had failed other approaches. It's not the right approach for some of you. That's okay.

But if a kid hits at my house, he gets sent home. Even though dd's playcircle is probably 3 dozen kids, we've only ever had this come up with one child. But it worked perfectly and now she plays over here about twice a week with no problems.

[soybeansmama]

Originally Posted by blessed

Well, the OP's son will do fine. And so will everyone's children who have responded here today. We are all practicing gentle parenting and just disagree about the effectiveness of a particular approach.

We found something that seems to work well, even in difficult cases that had failed other approaches. It's not the right approach for some of you. That's okay.

But if a kid hits at my house, he gets sent home. Even though dd's playcircle is probably 3 dozen kids, we've only ever had this come up with one child. But it worked perfectly and now she plays over here about twice a week with no problems.

THANKYOU

[blessed]

Sorry if I seemed to be coming down on you :.

I'm glad things are working out with your friend .

[wytchywoman]

Why the heck would it be OK for him to hit HIS sibling????????

If it's OK for him to hit 1 baby - why not a different baby??

HITTING ISN'T OK. IT'S NOT!!!!!

HOW HARD IS THAT TO UNDERSTAND??????? IT'S NOT OK FOR HIM TO HIT. ANYONE!!!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]


No one here has said it is OK for him to hit anyone. No one. Show me one post where someone has said he's in the righ for hitting another kid.
What they are saying is that sometimes problems like these don't have clear cut solutions. Often times the behavior is nothing more than a symptom of a different and broader scoped problem. To get rid of the behavior you have to get rid of the main problem, and in order to do that you have to figure out what that problem is, which is far from easy.
Sounds to me like this young man, in the end, is just feeling really helpless and out of control right now. Those are problems that are not so easy to fix, adn they take a lot of time and patrience and trial and error.
Quite frankly I see a lot of new mamas with only one young child blasting the OP. Forgive me for stating the obvious that you are a bit inexperienced when it comes to the trials of parenthood. You need to have another kid or two and walk a few miles in the OP's shoes and then come back and tell us how great your kids get along and how well behaved they are. Helping your kids to negotiate sibling and other social relationships is a skill that is honed over a length of time and it is one that is diffficult to obtain. I have a 14 yo and a 7 yo and they still tax my patience and abilities at times.
Again, I'm not excsuing the LO's behavior. Hitting is not acceptable. but is happens and it sounds like the OP is doing all she can to get to the root of the problem.

[soybeansmama]

Originally Posted by blessed

Sorry if I seemed to be coming down on you :.

I'm glad things are working out with your friend .

peace, mama...

[ramama]

Jessica, it just dawned on me (actually, hit me like a truck) that I have been using strong language to refer to the actions of a woman who is your friend. I apologize if I have offended you. I trust that since this woman has been a good friend to you for many years and you are in the process of amending your relationship, that she is a woman worth of your friendship. Hopefully this is just a bump in the road.

Seriously, though, for a thread that was so contentious for so long has turned into a mush-fest!

[yarngoddess]

Originally Posted by blessed

And this would not have worked. His mother has talked to him about hitting ad nauseum.

What worked was the realization that: WOW! When I hit someone it is a BIG DEAL. They don't just talk to me, or remind me, or encourage me to do something else. They get really angry. Gee, it must really hurt when I do that. I'll think twice about doing that again, because it really bothers me to see my friends and loved ones this upset.

Bolding is mine. TALKING to a child works WONDERS for SOME children. OP's DS seems to be responding to actively dealing with his FEELINGS, EMOTIONS, and INNER THOUGHTS. GUESS how that happens? BY TALKING. OP has never ever said that she just gave him a pat answer of "Oh, honey please don't hit" and left it at that. SHE DID NOT, and your post here is implying that she has said something that she hasn't.

I have a HUGE problem with this concept that children will learn once an adult becomes angry. My children litterally SHUT DOWN if they sense that you are angry. SOME people don't respond well in situations that are angry or where they feel that they are being intimidated. WHY should it be OK to be angry and intimidate a child? especially when it has the tag of "learning" I think that the OP is doing an awesome job of teaching her DS the deeper value of WHY we don't hit, not just that we DON'T.

Originally Posted by Kessed

Yes - at 18 months this is normal behaviour...

The OPs child is MUCH older than 18 months. He's 4.

And that's a HUGE difference.

Again, this I TOTALLY disagree with. This is a 4yr old BOY. BOY's are different than girls, and in some family's the difference is so startling it can knock your socks off. I have both boys and girls, and my girls are very verbal and rational beings. They listen and learn by the second time of doing something "wrong", but my boys are TOTALLY different. BOYS tend to be VERY physical, they don't talk as much or as often as girls (or as well in the early years either) and when they are dealing with some pretty complex emotions they often resort to hitting. DON'T misread this- it's not OK to hit, but I really, REALLY think that you are missing a HUGE element here.

What ever happened to sharing our opinions about a situation WITH OUT making the OP feel bad, isolated and just generally crappy. This thread has almost become inappropriate in it's continued arguing, and indifferance to the real person's feelings. OP is very right, if this was my thread I would have stopped responding at page 4. Some people cannot deal with this continued garbage back and forth. WHAT are we learning/gaining from eachother in this thread? SUPPORT? not really. No where does it say that we all have to disagree, but we are supposed to be here as a support system, not as a system to break down someone. MDC is starting to become a more angry place, more judgmental and more "MY way or YOU'R WRONG" kind of a place.:

[soybeansmama]

Originally Posted by ramama

Jessica, it just dawned on me (actually, hit me like a truck) that I have been using strong language to refer to the actions of a woman who is your friend. I apologize if I have offended you. I trust that since this woman has been a good friend to you for many years and you are in the process of amending your relationship, that she is a woman worth of your friendship. Hopefully this is just a bump in the road.

Seriously, though, for a thread that was so contentious for so long has turned into a mush-fest!

Trust me, I have used some strong language about her over this whole thing, too. I have more understanding to replace the anger now...kind of like with my 4 year old.

[soybeansmama]

Originally Posted by yarngoddess

Bolding is mine. TALKING to a child works WONDERS for SOME children. OP's DS seems to be responding to actively dealing with his FEELINGS, EMOTIONS, and INNER THOUGHTS. GUESS how that happens? BY TALKING. OP has never ever said that she just gave him a pat answer of "Oh, honey please don't hit" and left it at that. SHE DID NOT, and your post here is implying that she has said something that she hasn't.

I have a HUGE problem with this concept that children will learn once an adult becomes angry. My children litterally SHUT DOWN if they sense that you are angry. SOME people don't respond well in situations that are angry or where they feel that they are being intimidated. WHY should it be OK to be angry and intimidate a child? especially when it has the tag of "learning" I think that the OP is doing an awesome job of teaching her DS the deeper value of WHY we don't hit, not just that we DON'T.



Again, this I TOTALLY disagree with. This is a 4yr old BOY. BOY's are different than girls, and in some family's the difference is so startling it can knock your socks off. I have both boys and girls, and my girls are very verbal and rational beings. They listen and learn by the second time of doing something "wrong", but my boys are TOTALLY different. BOYS tend to be VERY physical, they don't talk as much or as often as girls (or as well in the early years either) and when they are dealing with some pretty complex emotions they often resort to hitting. DON'T misread this- it's not OK to hit, but I really, REALLY think that you are missing a HUGE element here.

What ever happened to sharing our opinions about a situation WITH OUT making the OP feel bad, isolated and just generally crappy. This thread has almost become inappropriate in it's continued arguing, and indifferance to the real person's feelings. OP is very right, if this was my thread I would have stopped responding at page 4. Some people cannot deal with this continued garbage back and forth. WHAT are we learning/gaining from eachother in this thread? SUPPORT? not really. No where does it say that we all have to disagree, but we are supposed to be here as a support system, not as a system to break down someone. MDC is starting to become a more angry place, more judgmental and more "MY way or YOU'R WRONG" kind of a place.:

thankyou,
I have continued this thread because I am actually learning something here. I can weed out the snark...

[mamasneedlove]

This is the first multi-page thread I've read in its entirety since I joined. I have to say I am so saddened and turned off. I will NEVER post in this forum about any problems I have with my child, because I see what a hostile and angry environment it is. If this had been my topic, I would be in tears and probably never visit again.

Not only that, but I am inferring by the OP's comments that this happens often on this board, that this board is well known for being so prickly? I found this board through Mothering magazine, which I love, and I'm so shocked.

I mean, come on people, we're all on the same team here! Why are we attacking each other over posts that are so easy to misunderstand? No, why are people being ALLOWED to write such sarcastic, mean-spirited, and obviously unkind things? Are there no moderators?

I feel so dejected because I thought I had found a community of like-minded parents, but instead I found a bunch of people practically name-calling over the interpretation of what someone's friend said! Wow, so disappointing.

[mamazee]

Originally Posted by Kessed

Do you 'allow' your child to run into a busy street?

That isn't a discipline issue. That's a supervision issue. I stayed right with my daughter and held her hand near busy streets until she knew not to run into the street.

[Kessed]

Originally Posted by mamazee

That isn't a discipline issue. That's a supervision issue. I stayed right with my daughter and held her hand near busy streets until she knew not to run into the street.

That's my point. You made sure that your child wasn't able to run into the street.

Since hitting isn't as disastrous as running into the street - my level of supervision isn't as high. But it's close. Sometimes the kids in my care do hit each other - and when they do - I supervise that child very closely for a while to prevent it from happening again. With the one girl is having a hard time with this right now - I don't give her the opportunity to do it.

[soybeansmama]

Originally Posted by mamasneedlove

This is the first multi-page thread I've read in its entirety since I joined. I have to say I am so saddened and turned off. I will NEVER post in this forum about any problems I have with my child, because I see what a hostile and angry environment it is. If this had been my topic, I would be in tears and probably never visit again.

Not only that, but I am inferring by the OP's comments that this happens often on this board, that this board is well known for being so prickly? I found this board through Mothering magazine, which I love, and I'm so shocked.

I mean, come on people, we're all on the same team here! Why are we attacking each other over posts that are so easy to misunderstand? No, why are people being ALLOWED to write such sarcastic, mean-spirited, and obviously unkind things? Are there no moderators?

I feel so dejected because I thought I had found a community of like-minded parents, but instead I found a bunch of people practically name-calling over the interpretation of what someone's friend said! Wow, so disappointing.

I am so sorry mama.
please feel free to send mamas a p.m. if you want a more private discussion. I was worried something like this would happen. I feel sad about that. there is like-mindedness here, that is why I stay.

[ramama]

Originally Posted by mamasneedlove

This is the first multi-page thread I've read in its entirety since I joined. I have to say I am so saddened and turned off. I will NEVER post in this forum about any problems I have with my child, because I see what a hostile and angry environment it is. If this had been my topic, I would be in tears and probably never visit again.

Not only that, but I am inferring by the OP's comments that this happens often on this board, that this board is well known for being so prickly? I found this board through Mothering magazine, which I love, and I'm so shocked.

I mean, come on people, we're all on the same team here! Why are we attacking each other over posts that are so easy to misunderstand? No, why are people being ALLOWED to write such sarcastic, mean-spirited, and obviously unkind things? Are there no moderators?

I feel so dejected because I thought I had found a community of like-minded parents, but instead I found a bunch of people practically name-calling over the interpretation of what someone's friend said! Wow, so disappointing.

I don't know what to say...I know what I *want* to say. MDC is a great place for information, but asking for advice can be dicey. Some seem to come on just to pick a fight in cyber-anonymity. It seems that if you come on hoping to be supported, you are flamed. If you come on thinking you'll be flamed, you're actually supported. It's a strange place...I lurked for a loooooong time before posting, and still hesitate to start a thread.

Jessica, you're more of a woman than I am in being able to wade through the snark.

[monkey's mom]

Originally Posted by Kessed

That's my point. You made sure that your child wasn't able to run into the street.

Since hitting isn't as disastrous as running into the street - my level of supervision isn't as high. But it's close. Sometimes the kids in my care do hit each other - and when they do - I supervise that child very closely for a while to prevent it from happening again. With the one girl is having a hard time with this right now - I don't give her the opportunity to do it.

How does that work logistically? Because that would have meant that my first child would never have been touched or in the proximity of another human being. Seriously, I sometimes never knew if he was going to walk up to another child and play with them and get along beautifully, or he was going to smack them in the face completely unprovoked. So, barring taking away all opportunities for contact, I just can't see how not "giving the opportunity" actually works.

And reading back over several posts I can see how some folks are confused or bewildered. I worked with kids for years and years. I could give a look (not angry or mean...just serious and expectant) and have kids behave in ways their parents admitted they could not manage. But that stuff just doesn't work day in and day out with my own children--sometimes....but not for this hitting deal. I think there is a world of difference btw. how kids behave for care givers/friends/others and what happens with their own folks.

New mamas....take what works and leave the rest. You can quickly find out who "speaks your language" here and ignore those who don't.

[soybeansmama]

Originally Posted by monkey's mom

How does that work logistically? Because that would have meant that my first child would never have been touched or in the proximity of another human being. Seriously, I sometimes never knew if he was going to walk up to another child and play with them and get along beautifully, or he was going to smack them in the face completely unprovoked. So, barring taking away all opportunities for contact, I just can't see how not "giving the opportunity" actually works.

And reading back over several posts I can see how some folks are confused or bewildered. I worked with kids for years and years. I could give a look (not angry or mean...just serious and expectant) and have kids behave in ways their parents admitted they could not manage. But that stuff just doesn't work day in and day out with my own children--sometimes....but not for this hitting deal. I think there is a world of difference btw. how kids behave for care givers/friends/others and what happens with their own folks.

New mamas....take what works and leave the rest. You can quickly find out who "speaks your language" here and ignore those who don't.

that's a good point about others taking care of your kids...most of the time my ds behaves beautifully and the children I watch regularily don't talk back like their mom says they do at home...it's interesting.