Friends whose parenting styles are different...

[cndnveggie]

I consider myself to be fairly open minded, and while I love being an AP mom and wish all babies could grow up in AP families, I realize that everyone makes the choices that they feel are best for them and their families, and I respect their decisions. I don't pressure someone into making the same choices I do, and really only offer my AP-opinion on parenting when it's asked for.

But I find it kind of difficult making friends with moms who aren't AP. I often feel I hold back from saying what I believe because I'm worried I'll offend them, or they'll get defensive. For example, I met a mom yesterday for the first time (she is DH's sister's husband's cousin - follow that?) Very nice lady, her daughter was adorable, and she lives really close to home, so it would be fun to meet up regularly. But then she told me how she "Ferberized" her baby awhile ago, and how it worked great, but now baby is waking up again for a bottle (she also has formula fed since 6mo by choice), and so she may have to Ferberize again. And I don't say anything, because if I say I don't agree with CIO (why call it Ferberize??? Call it what it is - letting your baby cry alone), and she asks why, then I'd say that I think it's important that a baby knows her parents will respond when she cries, especially before the baby is able to understand any attempt to explain otherwise, and how it's so sad when a child gives up on crying and just falls asleep all by herself. How I think a child will lose trust in the value of her voice, and won't trust that her parents are there for her when she needs them. How I find it so sad to think of a little baby, crying alone in a dark room all by herself, wondering why people don't come to comfort her just because it's dark?

Anyways, sorry for rambling! My point is that instead I say nothing, except maybe that DS is still waking up at night but we cosleep and I don't mind getting up to feed him. I just feel like I'm not being true to myself, and almost withholding my opinions on things for fear of making someone feel bad about their own parenting decisions.

Am I overanalyzing it all? Should I assume that other moms are "big girls" too and can handle a difference of opinion? That they'll know I'm not criticizing their decisions per se, just voicing my own?

[gypsyhips26]

I'm finding it hard as well, the decision whether or not to voice my opinion, to friends are aren't AP-style parents. Case in point is one of my best friends, who after a long struggle trying to BF her LO, decided to supplement w/ formula and now when her LO is barely 4 months, to introduce rice cereal.

I totally freaked when I saw the pics, but decided not to say anything, because I know how hard she tried to BF and I didn't want to add to her guilt. But DH says that I really should voice my opinion, because it may be useful for her to hear a different approach/view.

I don't know I would hope that we are all "big girls" and can handle having different opinions, etc. After all I get a lot of different opinions voiced to me & I listen & politely disagree... (re: CIO, not BFing past a year, rushing solid foods, cloth diapers, etc.)

I think its all in how you say it, from a place with love & good intentions, she may not get angry or offended, she may just agree to disagree.

And isn't variety the spice of life, anyway?

HTH

[columbusmomma]

Off topic but I just heard the word "ferberize' yesterday. It comes from the movie meet the fockers and is the term used for CIO that "the dr." came up with, and the fockers are using on the baby. my friend said she ferberized her DS at 5 months

[Sheryl1678]

While it can be very difficult to witness certain parenting behaviors that we feel (know) are harmful to children, such as CIO and formula feeding, I believe it is best not to say anything unless that person is asking for my opinion, is a first time mom who is clearly in over her head and is open to suggestions or someone who has expressed an interest in knowing more about AP.

I believe (call me crazy) that it is MORE uncomfortable for non-attached parents to be around us because it makes them feel guilty about their choices and I think that causes them to say hurtful, mean or simply ignorant things about AP choices.

[slf]

I'm in a similar boat as you, OP.

My BFF is moving back to town and I'm so unsure how things are going to go.... her DD is 12 mo, was completely weaned by 9 mo. and i remember when i told her i was pg, she recommended this book that they just loved, worked wonders etc.... that book was Babywise. *shudder* I didn't know about ap then, but i knew that didn't seem right to me. Now i wonder how it will be with her... she's been my bff since jr. high, but ap has become such an important part of my life, i'm beginning to wonder how we'll be able to be friends as parents...

[eli's mama]

It is so hard. I feel like if I tried to only hang out with APers I'd be pretty lonely. one of my good friends did CIO and was always suggesting it to me and I gave up telling her that I just didn't believe in it and finally told her yeah, i'll try it. of course I never would but she just wouldn't quit.

[annettemarie]

I'm going to bump this over to parenting issues since it isn't specifically about parenting a babe.

[prothyraia]

I've found that I can take with my non-AP friends about our children, but not about parenting or discipline- if they bring up something on those topics I just say something bland or nothing at all, and change the topic. (sadly, all my my friends who have children right now are not remotely AP...)

I know that I don't have the diplomatic or verbal skills to tell someone that I think what they are doing is hurting their precious baby in a way that they would be able to hear, or that would make any kind of difference.

[PatienceAndLove]

I am going through this right now.
A friend of mine's wife gave birth about 3 weeks ago and they are already "scheduling" the baby. And he complains about being "forced" to hold her because he doesn't want her to become "dependent" on him.
I just about wanted to pull my hair out.

[marzanmama]

Originally Posted by cndnveggie

Should I assume that other moms are "big girls" too and can handle a difference of opinion? That they'll know I'm not criticizing their decisions per se, just voicing my own?

Can you just say "_______ (cosleeping, extended nursing, etc) are what work best for us" rather than "we believe the best thing for babies is ________."

[jillian+1]

How on Earth did this end up in Parents as Partners? Anyway...

I agree that it is incredibly awkward to be in a parenting discussion with a Babywise-r or other CIO type parent. I don't have any problem with the moms in my playgroup who maybe do these things but we don't really talk about them and we're not really close. DH and I had close friends where we used to live and we dodged a bullet by moving because they are total Babywise-rs. I just wouldn't be able to be close friends with them because it breaks my heart to think of their beautiful children waking up in the dark, alone, knowing that no matter how they cry no one is coming to hug them or feed them. I know I can't save every kid, but it is too painful to have it in my face.

The only thing I could do (and I -do- do this) is casually present my own parenting style as "what works for us". Mainstream moms have no problem casually mentioning things like how their toddler cries for an hour when you put him in his bed alone, so I don't have any problem casually mentioning things like trying to get dd to sleep in her sidecar so I don't get punched in the face all night.

I think if you have a friend who is pushy with Babywise, there's nothing wrong with being equally pushy with, say, Dr Sears's Christian parenting book.

And there's always this approach, "Hey, I read the most surprising thing the other day... did you know that X actually decreases the incidence of Y? Wow, that's so cool, I'm definitely going to try doing X when we get to that point."

[sarafi]

I can kind of see this from both sides, being a recently recovered/recovering "mainstream" parent myself.

From the outside, looking at an AP family is weird. When I first met one of my best friends (treemom to all you MDC ers) I thought her kids were wild and she didn't pay attention to them. After hanging out with her and her kiddos for a while I realised that they weren't wild (they are incredibly kind, polite and compassionate for their ages) and that she wasn't ignoring them--she was working really hard not to overreact about normal kids stuff. Just being around her has helped me to chill out and not constantly nag my kids about "being careful" or not climbing too hig when they are going to get really hurt if they fall, I just would rather they never get hurt at all IYKWIM? She never said anything to me about my parenting until I asked, and honestly I think that is the best way to go. She is a great resource: Go treemom!!!!

That said, another friend is very strict with her child and it is hard for me not to put my two cents in sometimes. I try to only say things that I am really willing to fight about, and wait until she brings things up. I can only think of two things we have really fought about and when we did we really fought! I said what I needed to say, I think she heard what she needed to hear and now it's over. For now, I don't think anything has changed in those two instances but I planted a seed of dissent and maybe in the future she will remember and reconsider? I still love her and think she is a really good parent, we just disagree about a few things.

Another friend lets her kids CIO at naptimes/bedtimes and is constantly mad at me for picking them up! Sorry, if she comes to my house and puts her kids in cribs crying, I'll be picking them up, after five minutes or so. That is just how it is. We agree to disagree.


I went though the Babywise training when my first was tiny, maybe three-four weeks old. I am trying to un-learn a lot of the junk that is now in my head as "fact" and really is not fact at all.

From my experience, the best way to talk to a Christian Babywiser (or anyother program for that matter) might be a simple question about the way God parents. The whole push of the program (in churches at least) is to raise Godly children, and I never stopped to think "does God ignore his children in order to teach them to be independant?" or "doesn't God want us to learn to depend on Him?" Why then the thrust to foster independance on infants? It makes no sense at all to me know, I just never put that together at the time.

[crazyrunningmama]

I feel like it is important to say something, otherwise people will continue to think that "everyone" formula feeds, CIO's, spanks, whatever. I developed this opinion when I was pregnant, and it seemed like "everyone" had a c-section or an epideral or at least some good drugs during labour. It really helped me to hear women say that they delivered without drugs and to talk about their experiences and normalize it for me. I had a LOT of people say "just ask for an epideral right away, you'll end up with one eventually" and it really messed with my head. BTW, no drugs, lots of stitches and I am damn proud of how well we did.

So, when someone says they did CIO or whatever, I go ahead and say, "I could never do that because ______ , here's what we did _________".

[JustJamie]

I have come to realize that no one does everything exactly the same all the time...and honestly, that's been a very difficult lesson for me to learn. I just have to repeat my internal mantra that we all do what's best for our families.

I have a similar (kind've) problem with a friend - she frequently makes comments about "different parenting styles", usually as innuendo that she thinks my almost-3 year old is wild/unruly/a bully. The ironic thing is, we both believe in AP/gentle discipline - but her daughter is a full year younger than mine. So when her daughter was still a perfectly behaved 12 mo, my daughter was turning into a limit-testing two year old. Of COURSE my daughter is going to have instances of throwing fits over toys, stealing toys, doing things she shouldn't be doing, etc. It's not a matter of different parenting styles, it's a matter of age appropriate behavior. Now that her daughter is nearly two, and beginning to display some of the same behaviors my daughter is starting to outgrow, the comments about "different parenting" have slowed, and I'm able to silently laugh and point and think to myself "See, you're NOT a better parent than me, your perfect angel is a terrorizing two year old too!!!"

Sorry for my little rant there...but consider that you might be a positive influence on your new acquaintance. For example, say "I thought about using Ferber's approach, but then I read The Baby Book (or other applicable title) by Dr. Sears (or other applicable author) and he said XYZ, which just felt more in line with my own gut feelings and instincts for my child." You're not criticizing her approach, per se, but you are disagreeing with it and giving her a reference she might not have encountered yet, thus opening up a dialogue and giving her the ability to research another method for herself.

[Thao]

If you want to be friends with parents who have different parenting styles than your own, I think it's important that you *do* talk about how and why you parent the way you do. That's such an important part of yourself and your relationship to your kids; I couldn't imagine trying to withhold it and still be friends with someone. It would feel very awkward and limiting.

As others pp have said, you can totally talk about it in a non-judgemental way. I mean raising kids is so complicated, there are so many factors. I think we can say that certain methods are generally better but I do not think we can ever say that certain methods will always produce a certain result (with the exception of abuse, of course). For example, the idea that CIO will inevitably lead to detached kids that don't trust their parents. My parents did CIO with me because that's what people did back then, but I have always been extremely close and bonded to my mom . She apparently made up for any loss of trust I might have experienced as an infant in lots of other ways. So it's important to always keep that in mind. Even though you disagree with a certain parenting style, it doesn't mean the kids are necessarily going to be ruined for life.

So I'd say, go ahead and talk to her in a non-judgmental way. If she responds badly, defensively, tries to push her ways on you -- then you know that you can't be her friend. But not because she does CIO, rather because she is not tolerant of your opinions. She should be a "big girl" and be able to deal with the difference of opinion, but the only way you'll find out is by trying it. And hey, maybe you'll even help change her mind!

[That Is Nice]

It is very hard for me to sit and silently watch someone, especially a friend, parent in a very anti-AP way.

I do not get dogmatic about it, though. I've tried to plant seeds here and there. But it does get to me, and I have to try hard not to judge, and to understand they have their own philosophy, and it is their right.

Now, if someone asks or shows interest...that's another story!

[Narn]

Anytime I've ever mentioned anything AP to a mainstream parent, I just get a bunch of lame excuses or reasons why they feel they are doing best. So, what's the point?

Then again, if there was a better way to do something that I hadn't thought of, I'd love to hear it. I mean, I know I wouldn't be the same mom if I hadn't run into MDC! I never would have learned about babywearing and baby-led solids. Maybe if I'd had an AP friend around when I was pregnant, I would have learned it from her.

Maybe us AP moms need to speak up, test the waters, you know? See how your friend responds to something and go from there. Who knows, maybe she will say, "hey, that makes sense!" If not, now you know.

If she feels strongly that she is doing the right thing, why would she be offended?

[Alyantavid]

It is hard. Most of our friends don't ap or anything anywhere near it. We do tend to gently explain what we've done (if there's any sort of advice being asked for) and then drop it when they say it wouldn't work for them.

Dh recently met a new baby of an acquaintance and asked the mom if she was still bfing. She said she'd quit because she had to go back to work. Dh mentioned that I'd bf while working full time and pumping 3 times a day and she said that would have just been too hard for her. And maybe it would have. It was hard for me as well but I did it. I just don't think tons of judgment does much for a friendship.

We do try to let our friends know there are other options besides what they're doing but we don't push it, just to try to make sure they know we don't do it that way and we'd be glad to help if they need it.

[cndnveggie]

Thanks everyone for your comments - all very helpful and valid. I've kind of held back from meeting non-AP parents (haven't joined playgroups, etc.) just because I felt like I wouldn't be comfortable talking about our parenting choices. But I think this new friendship will be a good place to "test the waters" and see how it goes spending time with someone who has made different choices than myself.

[Devaya]

Interesting thread...I've been struggling with this a lot lately as well, bc i feel really passionately about not CIO and other related AP things. I stopped going to a mom and baby group bc everyone there was all 'so who's sleeping thru the night' at like 2 months. I was in the library the other day and another mom of a baby got chatting with me at the parenting book section - she was looking for Ferber's book (as rec to her by her health visitor!!) and said she was 'at the end of her tether'. I blurted 'Dont read that! 'before thinking but then tried to be really diplomatic after that, and just said I had done some research and found out CIO is harmful and the reasons why, and that personally I had decided it wasnt right for us, and personally this and personally that.

another day a mom was saying how she felt she had to put her baby in a nursery bc she wasnt getting enough stimulation from 'just' being with her (the mom) all day, which made me so sad, as I'd just read Penelope Leach's 'Who Cares?' which argues that this is a massive cultural lie, basically. And in this case it worked for me to just say, 'you know, what you were saying interested me bc i recently read this book...' and then when she opened up about it all I could understand her pov too...I'm learning a lot!

I am casual friends with one mom who does occasionally let her baby CIO (not for long though) but she is really nice in every other respect...one thing i've learned recently is that things arent black and white in parenting, and people can be nice/good people and still make choices I wouldn't agree with. But I am increasingly finding myself having to bite my tongue a lot...and I dont think I could be serious friends with someone if I had to do that all the time. You need to be able to be honest, I think. Anyway PP's have had some good suggestions on how to approach it, I like the 'what works for us is...'