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My Kids Were Poisoned Today - Who to Write To?  

post #1 of 63
5/22/08 at 8:25pm
Thread Starter 
Dd1 (8) & Dd2 (5) had their teeth cleaned while Ds (2) had his cleaned. After Ds had his teeth scraped & polished, the hygienist stuck a toothbrush with gel on it in his mouth & sucked it out with "Mr. Thirsty." Half way through it occurred to me that it was fluoride.

As soon as we walked out of the building, Dd1 said, "Mommy, that stuff they put on my teeth made my belly feel yucky & gave me a headache." Then we got in the car & Dd2 started complaining that she felt yucky. Less than 5 minutes later, Ds was vomiting all over himself. The girls continued to complain & Dd2 threw up all over herself & her car seat. Dd1 made it home, but barely, vomiting in the front yard.

I called their dentist's office & asked what it was that they used that would cause all three of my children to vomit & they said that "fluoride sometimes causes kids to feel sick to their stomachs."



I am BEYOND FURIOUS!!! Why, in their minds, is this a reasonable reaction???!!

I had to take Dd2's seat out of the car, remove the straps & cover, wash them, scrub the seat of the car - Dd2 MISSED her dance class which wouldn't normally have been that big of a deal except that it was parent observation day & she was supposed to try on her costume for the recital. Dd1 almost missed her orthodontist appt that was scheduled as a series of 6 appts months ago to get her top expander put in, but she felt well enough by then to go. I asked her orthodontist about the kids & before I could even finish what I was saying, he was nodding saying "fluoride" after I recounted each child's vomiting experience.

*%$@ man, I am SO steaming mad, I'm not letting this one go. I am SO fed up with the AMA/ADA telling us that "fluoride is good for you!" It's $#@%ing poison & my childrens' bodies *knew* that it was poison & got rid of it.

Worst of all, I'm ticked at myself for allowing something like this - I knew better. I am well aware of the toxicity of fluoride, I don't give the drops when they're babies, I don't buy *any* of us fluoride tooth paste, even our tap water is fluoride-free, yet I allow the dentist to shove it into their mouths. The only reason I've ever allowed the fluoride treatments at the dentist is because they're supposed to be strictly topical & I do believe that fluorde can have a beneficial *topical* use. I VERY firmly believe that systemically, fluoride is highly, highly toxic & today just confirmed that before my very eyes.

As soon as they vomited, they all felt better, this was clearly a case of poisoning, no way was it any kind of illness. They went in rambunctious & healthy and left toxic & miserable.

I think I'll write some letters, but I'm not sure how high to go. I'll definitely write to the head of the practice - but this isn't just a problem with this specific practice, it's standard protocol for just about every dental office in the nation.

What should I do? Who should I write to? I want to spread the word - I just can't believe that the dentist & orthodontist admitted that this is a common occurrance,wth?
post #2 of 63
5/28/08 at 7:19pm
I wish I had a more wide spread type suggestion, but I'd most certainly write a letter to the dentist's office letting them know my concern as well as telling them that we wouldn't be back.

http://www.fluoridealert.org/action.htm has some suggestions on how to take action.
post #3 of 63
5/28/08 at 7:29pm
What a horrid experience! I feel for you - especially on the car mess...

That said, I don't think this is a common reaction and I'd avoid using the phrase "poisoned" in the letter you write. To me, that implies deliberate harm, which I don't think it's fair to accuse the dentist of doing.

I would focus more on the fact that the practice should inform parents of the possible reaction to topical fluoride treatments, and on the (it sounds to me) less than sympathetic reaction on the part of the staff when told about it. Sounds like they kind of brushed off what happened (?)

I agree that in your shoes I would also feel most upset at myself for allowing the fluoride in the first place.
post #4 of 63
5/28/08 at 9:58pm
Where I live you have to give permission for flouride treatments.
post #5 of 63
5/29/08 at 6:36am
Ugh, I'm sorry that happened. When will they get that flouride is not meant for human consumption?!
post #6 of 63
5/29/08 at 8:47am
If that's your first time with the dentist, I don't think it would be worth 'leaving' them for (i.e. "I won't be back"). They were just doing their job. No offense, but it should be the job of the parent to know what's involved with different procedures and to make sure those reflect your wishes. (maybe it's their job to be sure that what they're giving people won't harm them, but if that's considered part of a routine cleaning, it's not like the dental hygenist that likely administered it really had any say in the matter, other than maybe to ask your consent).

Maybe you were sort-of-okay with it being applied topically and let it slide in the moment? I would just recomend asking the dentist to not give your children flouride treatments until they are old enough to not swallow it. Let them know it ticked you off and caused the reaction it did in your children, but I wouldn't entirely flip out on them.
post #7 of 63
5/29/08 at 10:37am
That just happened to me at our dentist. Both my children were given a flouride treatment without my consent. I only found out about it because we have to pay 100% of the bill and I was looking over the charges.

My friend just took her DD to the dentist yesterday for a cleaning and specified cleaning only, do not do anything to her teeth without my consent. They put sealant on all four of her permanant teeth without her knowledge. Her DD is old enough to tell her that they did it, she questioned the dentist, and he said, yes they did that.

The thing that gets me is, a doctor, mechanic, repairman can NOT do a service without your consent. So why can a dentist?
post #8 of 63
5/29/08 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by eirual View Post
No offense, but it should be the job of the parent to know what's involved with different procedures and to make sure those reflect your wishes. (maybe it's their job to be sure that what they're giving people won't harm them, but if that's considered part of a routine cleaning, it's not like the dental hygenist that likely administered it really had any say in the matter, other than maybe to ask your consent).

Maybe you were sort-of-okay with it being applied topically and let it slide in the moment? I would just recomend asking the dentist to not give your children flouride treatments until they are old enough to not swallow it. Let them know it ticked you off and caused the reaction it did in your children, but I wouldn't entirely flip out on them.
Just read this. What are you thinking?! It should NEVER be okay for a dentist to do anything to a child, a MINOR, without telling the parents what they are doing!!! This is NOT the OP's fault. Absolutely not. This statement ticks me off. You are implying that it is her fault and has no reason to flip out on them. Read my above post. NO DOCTOR, MECHANIC, REPAIRMAN CAN PERFORM A SERVICE WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT, SO WHY CAN A DENTIST?
post #9 of 63
5/29/08 at 11:51am
But if it's considered part of the standard treatment, and she consented to standard treatment, then she DID consent.
post #10 of 63
5/29/08 at 11:56am
I don't think you need to do any kind of major activism- most kids don't have this kind of reaction to floride. I know that I personally limit my kids' floride consumption but I don't have a problem with twice-yearly topical floride treatments at the dentist's office.

IMO, you have kids that are sensitive to the topical floride treatment, and they personally shouldn't have it again. It should be put into their dental charts that they are allergic to floride and should not have topical floride treatments ever again. This doesn't mean that nobody should ever have topical floride treatment- just that your children shouldn't.
post #11 of 63
5/29/08 at 12:01pm
How did they get sick to their stomach from topical flouride?! Surely your 8 year old wasn't swallowing was she? If she swallowed the flouride, it's not exactly the doctor's fault...he was doing his job--if you don't want flouride treatments, it's best to avoid a dentist that uses them. Now, if the dentist told your child to swallow, that's a different cup of tea...that doesn't sound right at all.

I don't think there's much you can do--the standard of practice is to administer flouride treatments (and we do allow our children to be treated with topical flouride at the dentist--I'd actually be a little upset if dentists weren't allowed to do it since I think the twice yearly flouride treatments are just fine for my son...we don't do flouride water or drops, and so twice a year isn't bad *for him*).

The only thing you can really do is have a big allergy warning on your child's charts saying that they are allergic to flouride and should not be administered it.

ETA: I'm surprised they used it on your 2 year old though...I thought that you weren't supposed to use flouride until 3, or they were old enough to spit the toothpaste out?
post #12 of 63
5/30/08 at 11:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by paquerette View Post
But if it's considered part of the standard treatment, and she consented to standard treatment, then she DID consent.
nak
true but . . . .it sounds like she didn't get INFORMED consent, just info AFTER the fact: "oh, by the way, your kids may puke.''

i would think that as licensed health care pro's, they would have a legal and ethical obligation to informed consent.

eta to the op: if you're in the US, try contacting your state's board of occupational licenses and report the incident there.
post #13 of 63
6/1/08 at 1:07pm
It sounds like the OP has been consenting to flouride treatments for years and this is the first time this has ever happened. I'm not sure what you mean by consenting to "topical" flouride treatments and this being something different. The flouride treatments given at the dentists office *are* topical treatments. I remember when I was young, I threw up after a flouride treatment once. I didn't swallow. It was a flouride rinse that I had to swish in my mouth and I did so, then spit it all out, then threw up an hour or so later, after having a stomach ache since leaving the dentist office. My dentist gives treatments the same way yours does- puts some foam on a toothbrush and applies it to their teeth with it.

At our dentists office, there are papers you sign before the checkup. I would imagine that some possible side effects of various things are listed there but I haven't read them cover to cover.
post #14 of 63
6/1/08 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by paquerette View Post
But if it's considered part of the standard treatment, and she consented to standard treatment, then she DID consent.
Our dental office makes you sign a consent form for all procedures- just as you must sign a consent form for any vax. My children have never had any treatments I didn't sign off on.

I think it's very important that consent be in writing. Standard care should not be verbal or assumed.
post #15 of 63
6/1/08 at 7:21pm
Okay. I've never signed a medical/dental form because I've never consented to anything before. I assumed it was like the childbirth hospital forms; there might be a special form for something unusual, say a c-section, but there is one blanket form for everything considered standard, IV, monitoring, etc.
post #16 of 63
6/1/08 at 8:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by paquerette View Post
Okay. I've never signed a medical/dental form because I've never consented to anything before. I assumed it was like the childbirth hospital forms; there might be a special form for something unusual, say a c-section, but there is one blanket form for everything considered standard, IV, monitoring, etc.
I've been signing things since the day I became a mother. Even after my frist child's homebirth, I had to sign state forms for my midwife about not getting the Vit K shot, not getting antibiotic ointment in the eyes, permission to drawn blood for the PKU and on and on.
post #17 of 63
6/1/08 at 8:42pm
It's very easy to have this kind of reaction. Some kids can't help but swallow a little. I refuse it for my kids and myself-I have exactly this reacion, and I don't swallow any that I know of.
post #18 of 63
6/1/08 at 8:45pm
Thread Starter 
We never have to sign anything, except before each child's first appointment. I think it is considered "standard care."

I had a theory, since they have been having topical fluoride treatments for years there (at least Dd1 has) - I've really, really cleaned up their diets in the past year or so - we used to have decent diets but have since gone sugar-free & mostly label-free. A couple of friends of mine suggested the same thing, that maybe their bodies are so cleaned out that any amount of toxicity causes a strong reaction. It's just odd that they've never had that reaction. My 8 & 5 year olds knw not to swallow & "Mr. Thirsty" was tucked under the fluoride tray "just in case" so they shouldn't have swallowed any amount.

I called a local holistic (mercury-free, fluoride-free) dentist & after a brief recounting of the fluoride story, I have a phone consult this coming Tuesday & then I'll decide if we should switch to him or stay where we are.

I also mentioned it to my chiro who just looked at me & said, "It is poison!" and proceeded to Xerox an article for me. It was from the most recent issue of Pathways, a holistic subscription that I receive from our chiro who does cranial-sacral work for us. I came home & read the article & it has some decent info.

I'd like to bring it up at the dentist's office so that they consider warning parents of the possible effects.

I know it's my fault for allowing it since I do know the cons of fluoride, but it's the only form of supplemental fluoride they receive & it's supposed to be purely topical. My poor little kiddos, at least my Dds will remember the experience & remind the hygienists that they do NOt want fluoride.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxwill129
My friend just took her DD to the dentist yesterday for a cleaning and specified cleaning only, do not do anything to her teeth without my consent. They put sealant on all four of her permanant teeth without her knowledge. Her DD is old enough to tell her that they did it, she questioned the dentist, and he said, yes they did that.
I'd be fuming! Sealants contain bisphenol-A, formaldehyde AND fluoride!
post #19 of 63
6/1/08 at 9:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinemama View Post
What a horrid experience! I feel for you - especially on the car mess...

That said, I don't think this is a common reaction and I'd avoid using the phrase "poisoned" in the letter you write. To me, that implies deliberate harm, which I don't think it's fair to accuse the dentist of doing.

I would focus more on the fact that the practice should inform parents of the possible reaction to topical fluoride treatments, and on the (it sounds to me) less than sympathetic reaction on the part of the staff when told about it. Sounds like they kind of brushed off what happened (?)

I agree that in your shoes I would also feel most upset at myself for allowing the fluoride in the first place.
This is a really good perspective. You know you get more flies with honey than vinegar. It will probably have a lot more impact if you can address it in a way that emphasizes, hey, if this is even a possibility (no matter how rare/common), then parents have a right to be informed ahead of time. I know we/they cannot be expected to know everything, but if this is something that they KNEW can be a side effect (and clearly they did), then they should be telling people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UUMom View Post
Where I live you have to give permission for flouride treatments.
This is awesome!

At our pediatric dentist, you have to fill out a little form every time you go, asking if there have been any changes in your child's health, if you have any concerns today, etc, and I always write NO FLOURIDE PLEASE in large letters.

I'm sure the paste they use to brush their teeth has flouride in it, though. But I always refuse those flouride treatments because that just sounds nuts to me. I always say, "Please just clean the teeth and and do a visual inspection for cavities." They say, "Can we take pictures?" (Their watered down version of asking if they can take an x-ray.) I just keep repeating myself, "Please just clean the teeth, thank you."

Don't beat yourself up OP, it sounds like their little bodies took care of it in just the right way, by expelling it! So be glad for that! You could also write a letter to the Holistic Dental Association, and the American Dental Association, in the same frame that the OP suggested above. Good luck! Just be vigilant next time!

Oh, one more thing, I ALWAYS go in with my child for the WHOLE time, even if they say he's fine to go in alone. I know of another pediatric dentist in town that does not allow the parents to go in. At all. Are you kidding me???? I would never consent to that! How do you know what they are doing? Especially with a 3 or 4 yr old! I can't believe that dentist actually has patients!

I also schedule my kids' dental appts separately. Yes, it is more hassle and more trips to the dentist, but worth it IMO to insure that I can stay with the child the whole time and make sure they are not doing something I have not consented to. When you do more than one child at one time, they have them all at different stages in the visit, with different hygienists, etc., and so you can't stay with each one for the whole visit.

Hope they are feeling better and you are too!
post #20 of 63
6/2/08 at 10:32am
Before my dd's first appointment at the dentist I asked about fluoride, and if it was used with the very young. I then asked that she write very large some where on dd's chart that I did not approve of any use of fluoride on my dd. I assumed it was standard treatment, and wanted them to understand that I would not approve of it's use, and wouldn't pay for it.

They looked (and still 6 years later) look at me crazy sometimes when they realize they won't be giving dd a fluoride treatment.

I'm sorry your dc had such a bad experience.
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