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I have an incredibly violent 3 year old who scares me - Page 2

post #21 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanti1 View Post
I have no great advice except please, do what you can to limit or remove pets from his equation all together. Animals, even the most loving and gentle, are unpredictable in the best of circumstances. It would be a tragedy if one decided to "protect" itself from your child. It's certainly a danger to the pets and could be a big danger to your little guy.
I second this. How horrible would it be for everyone involved if the dog hurt him severely or he killed the dog?

Get help for him now. If the ped doesn't listen go to another & another if you need to. This sounds extreme to me & if you can't get it under control now I would worry it's only going to escalate.

Good luck - I can only imagine how hard this must be.
post #22 of 46
I think the others have given excellent advice, and I hope you find the answer in there because I can only imagine how frustrated both you and your DS are right now. That said, I did want to comment on this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by darlintxmomma View Post
Now he LOVES to go to the wall, in fact he tells me that he hits just so he can go to time out, so apparently thats not working on him.
I think this is quite telling... to me it seems like he realizes that he is getting out of control and needs that time to get away from what's going on and regroup. If his behavior is at all better during/immediately after a time-out, I would encourage that as much as possible by helping him realize that he doesn't have to hit or misbehave and that he can give himself a time-out whenever he wants. If he genuinely likes time-out, I wouldn't abandon the approach but merely adjust it... Send him there as often as needed to keep the rage in control and hopefully keep him even-keeled long enough so that he can learn to feel when something is going array. I dunno, just a thought.
post #23 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by heather8 View Post
I think the others have given excellent advice, and I hope you find the answer in there because I can only imagine how frustrated both you and your DS are right now. That said, I did want to comment on this:
I think this is quite telling... to me it seems like he realizes that he is getting out of control and needs that time to get away from what's going on and regroup. If his behavior is at all better during/immediately after a time-out, I would encourage that as much as possible by helping him realize that he doesn't have to hit or misbehave and that he can give himself a time-out whenever he wants. If he genuinely likes time-out, I wouldn't abandon the approach but merely adjust it... Send him there as often as needed to keep the rage in control and hopefully keep him even-keeled long enough so that he can learn to feel when something is going array. I dunno, just a thought.
I agree, it is his attempt at self regulation, keep doing them, but try to do them before his behaviour is out of hand. Ask him if he thinks he needs a time out before the violence or rage escalates.
post #24 of 46
Thread Starter 
his deal with timeouts is that yes he will put himself in them, but he refuses to stay there. i basically have to stand over him forcing him to remain there. he has a timer that i set for 2 minutes and he KNOWS when it dings, he is done, but now he just flat out ignores the timer and me and i tell him to go back and stay there. he is defiant. if i tell him not to throw something, he throws it immediately. if i tell him not to hit the dogs, he will go hunt them down just to hit them because i told him not to.
its crazy but i have found that if i want him to actually do something, i have to tell him he cant do it and that hes not allowed to do it and it will get done immediately.

today started out crap just like yesterday, but i gave him some calm child syup and his l'theanine chewables and hes already a different kid.

but i did notice this morning that granny seems to bring it out in him. he was fine while she was gone and when she came home, even after hes been an angel all morning with me, he immediately went into kicking granny and hitting granny and yelling at her and she yells back. she is feeding into his frenzy. i told her to stop and now she wont talk to me.

about the dyes...i think that may be an issue too. first thing this morning that granny did before i woke up was give him a popsickle (the flavor-ice sticks) that are all sorts of colors. he eats about 10 of those a day and is absolutely addicted to them. i think they are a major problem so he is now banned from them. ill find another option for his popsickles that dont have the dyes and see how he does with them.

i really appreciate all of your advice and i will find him a good doc as soon as we get moved. where i live now, there arent any specialty docs and im moving to san antonio where they have a childrens hosptial so im pretty sure we can find help there. int he meantime, im overhauling his diet and getting him nutritionally built up and gonna see if that makes any changes.

oh and after reading about the oppositional defiance disorder, that fits him to a T and so does the adhd part...just a little but its there. his dad seems to have had both too so i do think its genetic. im gonna work more in those areas and see what happens. at least now i have some new ideas. last night i was at my wits end and desparate and didnt know where to go next.
so thank you all so much.

ps...i am keeping him separated from the dogs as much as possible.
post #25 of 46
Is it possible to video tape him when he's at his worst, even on a cell phone, so that you can show a doctor what he's like? My DD1 is so totally different at home than in public (and an angel in the doctor's office) and I had to film her anxiety/panic attacks on my phone to show our new doctor. It turns out that this guy finally believed me and I didn't have to show the video, but before that with other doctors, I wasn't believed either. It's rough.
post #26 of 46
I agree, you need to find him a good child pyschiatrist and/or psychologist. I too dont want to make you feel like something is wrong with him or something, but at the same time...that does not sound like normal behavoir.

My son was the same way. They are right that spanking wont help, my son quickly adapted and would laugh at me while I spanked him. All his violence started wellllll before any spanking though so I know that wasnt what caused it. Anyway, he was kicked out of daycare twice, I quit working so I could stay home with him instead, but everyday was hard. He would beat up on his little sisters, once he started kindergarten he had a very hard time there too. I'd watch him at the park walk up to random kids and punch them for no reason.

I had started him with a psychologist and psychiatrist when he was 5, about 6 months before K, because I knew it would be an issue. We tried other methods but nothing worked. Finally we put him on a form of Ritalin (didnt work), then Adderall (did work for awhile) and now hes on Vyvanse. We could see the difference in his ability to focus on tasks and whatnot but it didnt help with the violence. By this age, he was also having what we now call rages-basically violent temper tantrums resulting in holes in walls, his matress being torn to shreds, stabbing things, screaming and kicking for hours on end. He was placed in special ed in the middle of this year and has been only going to school 2 hours a day. I did some of my own research and read about bipolar in children and it described my child almost perfectly.

He started Depakote, at the miminum dose, about 4 months ago and even on that low dose the change has been dramatic. (Most kids are given Lithium, but my son has a history of epilepsy so it made more sense to at least try a siezure med first) He is only rarely having issues with hitting, and usually its more of a typical kid reaction, like when another kid was hitting him with a stick, he hit him back, that sort of thing. He hasnt had a rage since about 3 weeks into starting the med. He's doing very well at school and they are talking about reintigrating him into a normal classroom (Also, hes very smart, as most bipolar/adhd kids are-his IQ is in the 140's). I tried very hard to keep him off meds but the difference is amazing. He sees it too-he's only 8 but he will remind me that he hasnt had his meds and he has told me repeatedly he loves being able to sit still long enough to do things and feel like a normal kid.

Obviously I'm not saying this is what's up with your son, but I would DEFINATELY seek help and also be sure to do your own research as well. He's still too young for a diagnosis I believe, and I really wouldnt want to give meds to a child that young if I could avoid it, but simply seeing someone who can tell you no, you arnt a bad parent, this isnt your fault, is amazingly helpful and reassuring. Its even possible something else happened to cause this that you dont know about-as horrible as it is, I started having horrible violent behavoir when I was 3 and it turned out it was because I was being molested by a babysitter. Other things can trigger negative behavior like that too....Just get some help before you go nuts!
post #27 of 46
Ooo I just saw what you said about your mom...I actually had the same problem but for the opposite reason. My mom would let him do whatever he wanted, literally (including going to the park by himself without saying anything). He was NEVER punished by her, did whatever he wanted, etc. I basically had to stop visits with her, he used to go over there and sometimes spend a few days to give us a break, but it just wasnt worth it. He'd come home and it'd take 3 weeks to get him back into his routine at home. Basically he'd come home and expect to continue doing whatever he wanted. My mom hasnt spoken to me in 2 years though so it hasnt been an issue (she has her own mental health issues)
post #28 of 46
It seems like you have lots of good advice here, I don't really ahve anythign to add except that I agree with PPs that you should see about a therapist or early intervention evaluation, your insurance should cover it. I just had to post to tell you that I am so sorry that you have to go through this. I hope that you, DS, and the rest of the family can get this resolved and work through it. Hugs.
post #29 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahGuinn View Post
You need to take him to another therapist before you take him to your pastor to be prayed over, please.

Someone different and willing to work with you and listen to you. Maybe even another ped. Mention the family history of violent tendancies.
Yes, exactly! I'm so glad I'm not the only person on here who thought that.

Information about bipolar in toddlers http://www.googobits.com/articles/83...-disorder.html

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Mental...ges/30128.html
post #30 of 46
I am sorry, I know how hard it is to deal with. My son is 2 yrs 8 mths and very, very sensitive to foods. We are on Feingold and it has helped tremendously. He has a tendency to be aggressive, compulsive and destructive and if he is not on his diet 100% things go bad. We are finding that he is extremely sensitive to salicylates, which occur naturally in some fruits and veggies, including apples, tomatoes and lots of others. Feingold is an elimination diet where you remove all suspect foods (artificial dyes, preservatives, aspartamine) and slowly reintroduce after behavior improves. Yesterday I gave him 4 oz of orange juice and today he ran into the street, chased the dog with a stick and completely trashed his room. He has a hard time dealing with his emotions and when foods alter his brain chemistry just a little he becomes a mean little boy. I know how hard it is to see a child that you shower in love and affection be a mean and hateful person but remember he needs you to be his advocate. I've found the best way to deal with him is to stay calm and loving. To become at all angry or aggressive feeds the frenzy and makes matters worse.

FWIW, we make homemade popsicles from watered down pomegranate juice. I hope you find something that helps.
post #31 of 46
Thread Starter 
thanks again for all the help and links and advice.
good news...today was a GREAT day. i absolutely refused to allow myself to become worked up about anything he did and i remained calm and happy all day and my mood apparently affected him because hes been a happy-go-lucky kid today.
i did give him his multi (which ive been slacking on for a while), and some theanine (relax-a-saurus) which has helped his moods inthe past. he got a single dose of calm child this morning when he began to have his fits as soon as i woke up and he was totally different within 10 minutes.
he's even cooperating with potty learning some today which he had been revolting against for weeks now.
i feel like today i got my kid back that i love and adore so much. im gonna keep this routine up for a while and see how he responds.
oh...and no popsickles since early this am.
im gonna get some 100% juice and make my own from now on.
post #32 of 46
does your son act this way only for you, or is his behavior consistent regardless of who's watching him? if his behavior is the same under anyone's care then i would hands-down first look into food allergies. if his behavior is reserved solely for you and he seems to control himself in another's care - well it probably is not food allergies. the feingold diet is excellent. www.feingold.org there are also many other excellent diets out there, and if you search in the forums for health & healing and nutriton - you will get lots of amazing mama wisdom from ladies who have been in your shoes.

big hugs to you.
post #33 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by bri276 View Post
I would ask for a referral from your pediatrician to a developmental pediatrician.

How is he at daycare? How often does he go?

I always hesitate to post this because I think people will take it the wrong way, (I have a daughter with a genetic condition) but would you consider stopping by the special needs forum, not because I'm saying there is definitely something "wrong" with your son, but because there are many very experienced, knowledgeable mothers there with great advice?

http://mothering.com/discussions/forumdisplay.php?f=157

I don't usually have much to offer in this forum, but I wanted to give you a and tell you I agree with this.

And I also wanted to tell you that your son's behavior sounds strikingly similar to what I've read in Dr. Amen's attention deficit disorder books regarding patients with temperal lobe problems. Issues with violence (whether AD/HD related or not) often originate from slight abnormalities in the temperal lobe. I only know this because I think violent temperal lobe issues run in my dad's side of the family.

I think if you xpost your story here in special needs, you may find that there are mamas there to which his behavior sounds familiar and may be able to give you a lot of good advice and direction (as well as what you're getting here..)

Another
post #34 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahGuinn View Post
You need to take him to another therapist before you take him to your pastor to be prayed over, please.

Someone different and willing to work with you and listen to you. Maybe even another ped. Mention the family history of violent tendancies.
i respectfuly disagree with this. there's no reason you shouldn't do both at the same time. science does not negate spirituality and vice versa. they have done serious scientific studies to find that cancer patients who had large congregations pray for them recovered much faster and overall did better. consider a sort of collective consciousness effect.

anyway, i'm tibetan buddhist and we also have this tradition of specific prayer for emotional problems going on and i have seen so many miraculous turn arounds.

there's been so much good advice already, i just want to add that you could consider visiting a pastor along with whatever treatment plan you see fit.

also, pray over the situation yourself! if all else fails - try meditation, a few minutes being quiet and pushing thoughts out of your head can really recharge your battery and keep you grounded, which as you mentioned yourself can go a long way towards keeping him that happy-go-lucky little guy you love.

i am sending you lots of positive energy and healing thoughts. i am so sorry you are going through this. it will get better.
post #35 of 46
i dont have any advice for you but i am letting you know you are not the only one i am going through the same thing with my son the only exception is i have a one year old daughter who he takes it out on i called my local childrens hospital and they have referred me to a child mental health service and i am just waiting for a call back but will let you know how it went and maybe you could try it in the meantime
from one stressed mum to another keep your head up and just keep trying thats all i have been doen even though some days i just feel like giving up and leaving forever.
post #36 of 46
i just want to say a huge thankyou i went to the first link you provided and it described my son to a tee i now have something to start with so thankyou again for going out of your way to help parents like us
post #37 of 46
You have gotten so much good advice here I don't have much more except to say that along with red dye some yellow and green dyes have been implicated in causing behavioral reactions. When my brother was young yellow dye would cause near psychosis in him and with 10 popsicles a day your child can end up with quite a dose of them. Along with the other foods you are monitoring I would cut all dyes out of your child's diet. It may not cure the issues but it certainly can't help him to eat them.

You are a really GOOD mom to be working through all this and figuring out ways of helping him.
post #38 of 46
Thread Starter 
Wow its been a while since I started this thread and I just wanted to add that we stopped popsicles shortly after I first posted this and he has greatly improved. In fact even his tantrums have simmered down quite a bit. So maybe there really is something to the dyes he was ingesting or maybe its just that he gotten older but he is doing great now and I havent even thought about his past violent behaviours in a long time so that says a lot. So to all you moms who are dealing with this same issue.... Hang in there and hopefully things will improve for all of you too like it did for us.

Guess i should also mention that we finally got a house and moved to be with daddy so hes not dealing with daddy leaving him for weeks at a time anymore either and that has made an improvement. I was also concerned about having a new baby and turns out she is his princess and he adores and loves all over her.
post #39 of 46
post #40 of 46
I'd try to keep him away from the dogs. Can you gate off part of the house for the dogs to be away from him? Can you send your dogs to a friend's or your mom's? I would not take him to your mom's house for a while to just keep her and her dog safer.

Is he getting any positive attention? Try to praise him when he is doing good things, or being good.

I think you should be able to protect yourself. Don't get into physical positions where he can kick you in the gut.

Don't spank him. Spanking him gives him the message that violence is OK.

I am sorry you are all hurting.

Are there any activities he likes to do with you? Reading, playing catch? Do those nice things with him to fill him up with positive energy. He may need exercise to get out some energy too so he can be calmer with family members.

Good luck! Please do not spank him. Go to your bedroom and calm yourself (take the dogs with you if you are worried about their safety) and just work out your frustration rather than beating him.
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