Mean teacher caught on tape - Page 6

[SarahGuinn]

I would like to add that I didn't pull him out to home school him, I pulled him out and found a teacher that didn't resent the fact that she was a teacher and then the children as a result.

[BunnySlippers]

Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen

For instance, if we've been in class for 10 months, doing the same procedure every stinking day, and a kid acts like it's the first day of school, I will extend my hand and introduce myself, "Hi, I'm Ms Heffernhyphen; I'll be your teacher this year."

I know, it's shitty, but it helps me.

I don't think that is shitty at all. I find it funny Your sarcasm would not be lost on my 5yr old, she'd laugh and get it

[BunnySlippers]

Originally Posted by LauraLoo

Definition of Sarcasm
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sarcasm[A] is stating the opposite of an intended meaning especially in order to sneeringly, slyly, jest or mock a person, situation or thing. It is strongly associated with irony, with some definitions classifying it as a type of verbal irony intended to insult or wound.

Not sure why Iam jumping in the fray-

Just because the dictionary says so, does not mean all sarcasm is meant to wound. Some sarcasm or maybe dry humour? is funny and not intended ot wound.

[Heffernhyphen]

Originally Posted by BunnySlippers

Not sure why I am jumping in the fray-

That's how I feel every time I jump into a thread about teachers. Why do I go there, when I ALWAYS end up feeling like I need a shower afterwards?

There is a big difference between the bitchy teacher who takes jabs at her kids all day, treating them like lesser life-forms just because they are short, and one who occasionally says something snarky just to let off some steam. I talk to kids just like I talk to adults: with respect, manners, and humor . . . although with adults I do tend to favor language popular among teamsters, but I usually make it all the way through the school year without letting that sneak out. In the continuum of venting techniques, I think it's pretty harmless . . . or at least forgivable.

BunnySlippers, thank you for cutting me some slack and realizing that I'm not the teacher on the tape, or the one in Florida who voted the student off the island, or the one you had in fourth grade who slapped your wrists with a ruler. :

[chfriend]

Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen

realizing that I'm not the teacher on the tape, or the one in Florida who voted the student off the island, or the one you had in fourth grade who slapped your wrists with a ruler. :

I realize that you are not any of those people. I also think that you may avoid becoming those people and burning out on a career you clearly value by listening to the other voices on this thread.

I'm reminded of students in high school who, after violating a classroom rule, would say "Can you cut me some slack?" to the teacher. The best teachers offered a way for the student to begin again *without* cutting that student "slack," rather helping them reach their potential.

[SheepNumber97245]

Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen

That's how I feel every time I jump into a thread about teachers. Why do I go there, when I ALWAYS end up feeling like I need a shower afterwards?

There is a big difference between the bitchy teacher who takes jabs at her kids all day, treating them like lesser life-forms just because they are short, and one who occasionally says something snarky just to let off some steam. I talk to kids just like I talk to adults: with respect, manners, and humor . . . although with adults I do tend to favor language popular among teamsters, but I usually make it all the way through the school year without letting that sneak out. In the continuum of venting techniques, I think it's pretty harmless . . . or at least forgivable.

BunnySlippers, thank you for cutting me some slack and realizing that I'm not the teacher on the tape, or the one in Florida who voted the student off the island, or the one you had in fourth grade who slapped your wrists with a ruler. :

Why not wait till you get home to "vent" instead of doing it infront of the children?

No you are not those teachers..... but you could be. How do you know something you said didn't really make a child feel stupid and inadequate? How would you feel if a mother came to you and told you you really hurt her child's feelings?

[Heffernhyphen]

Originally Posted by SheepNumber97245

Why not wait till you get home to "vent" instead of doing it infront of the children?

You're right, in a perfect world I would never, ever feel anger or frustration in my job . . . or at least I would be perfect and always handle it with grace and wisdom. But I'm not a robot or Mary Poppins. I'm human. Sometimes I've got a kid on my last raw nerve and I slip up. I would be embarrased to turn around and see a parent standing there, but I truly suspect that in most cases, the parent would be more upset by what they saw their child doing to upset me than by my upset reaction to it. The best parents don't think, "Why did you yell at my child?" But, "What did my child do to make you yell at him?"

And, when I do screw up and say something not very nice to a student, I usually apologize, sometimes in private, sometimes in front of the class. I use it as a teaching opportunity and let them see that when we say or do something we shouldn't have, we should admit our mistake and ask forgiveness.

How would you feel if a mother came to you and told you you really hurt her child's feelings?

The other morning, one of my students arrived at school at the same moment I did. Her mother saw me approaching and turned in my direction. She said, "Wait till you hear what Madison said about you last night. She said she wants to live with you. I told her I'd be sad if she left, but she said I could come too."

But to answer your question: Yes, I'd be heartsick if I ever hurt a child's feelings. I try hard to do just the opposite all day.

[phathui5]

Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen

Really? So no paid professional is allowed to exhibit basic human flaws or weaknesses, or just professionals in education? We teachers have to be perfect, all day, every day? Wow. That sounds really hard. Good thing we get paid so well.

Basically, no. At work you keep your cool or you lose your job.

[chfriend]

Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen

The best parents don't think, "Why did you yell at my child?" But, "What did my child do to make you yell at him?"

No child can *make* you yell at him. Really.

Of course your students love you. It's one of the wonderful things about teaching the young. That's why it's important to find another way to handle your feelings of frustration.

Children deserve to be safe at school.

[purslaine]

[QUOTE=Heffernhyphen;11399442] The best parents don't think, "Why did you yell at my child?" But, "What did my child do to make you yell at him?"

QUOTE]

I would disagree.

The best parents do not automatically jump to conclusions.
The best parents (I am using your phrasing, but I do not like the concept of "best parents" ) look at what the child was doing, but also look at the teachers reaction. As many have said in this post, the behaviour of children does not excuse the behaviour of adults.

My job is to look after the best interest of my children.

[blessed]

Originally Posted by phathui5

Basically, no. At work you keep your cool or you lose your job.

Yeah, I don't get it.

I don't yell at my patients, or speak to them derisively with sarcasm when they don't do as I want or say. If I did, complaints would be (rightfully) lodged against me, and I would be subject to review of my professional behavior. All of that aside, it simply goes against the very reason and purpose of my role in practicing medicine.

The only reason you haven't been professionally censured is that five year olds lack the power and knowlege to get your inappropriate behavior dealt with properly.

How would a tape recording of your comments go over with these parents and school board members, I wonder?

[Heffernhyphen]

Originally Posted by blessed

Yeah, I don't get it.

Which is my original point precisely. You don't get it. To return to the original discussion, although vilifying me has become quite entertaining, most people don't, won't, can't get what that teacher was going through because we haven't been exactly where she was. You can't understand how a teacher could feel frustration and stress and annoyance to the point of saying something she might regret later. And that is where empathy is needed. Trying to imagine how someone else feels.

But to compare a doctor's professional demeanor to a teacher of young children is comparing apples and bowling balls. I find it hard to believe that one patient, no matter how irksome, could rival the stress output of 20 five-year-olds. Maybe if you could imagine your least favorite patient in your examine room with your for 8 hours a day, five days a week and then multiply it by 20?

[blessed]

Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen

Maybe if you could imagine your least favorite patient in your examine room with your for 8 hours a day, five days a week and then multiply it by 20?

You need to not be teaching children, dear.

This is NOT normal. This is not how you are supposed to feel about your students.

[SheepNumber97245]

Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen

Which is my original point precisely. You don't get it. To return to the original discussion, although vilifying me has become quite entertaining, most people don't, won't, can't get what that teacher was going through because we haven't been exactly where she was. You can't understand how a teacher could feel frustration and stress and annoyance to the point of saying something she might regret later. And that is where empathy is needed. Trying to imagine how someone else feels.

But to compare a doctor's professional demeanor to a teacher of young children is comparing apples and bowling balls. I find it hard to believe that one patient, no matter how irksome, could rival the stress output of 20 five-year-olds. Maybe if you could imagine your least favorite patient in your examine room with your for 8 hours a day, five days a week and then multiply it by 20?

I don't think you read what i asked earlier....

Why don't you teach older kids?

[berlina]

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/editor/menupop.gif

Heffernhyphen;11398606]" That's how I feel every time I jump into a thread about teachers. Why do I go there, when I ALWAYS end up feeling like I need a shower afterwards?

There is a big difference between the bitchy teacher who takes jabs at her kids all day, treating them like lesser life-forms just because they are short, and one who occasionally says something snarky just to let off some steam. I talk to kids just like I talk to adults: with respect, manners, and humor . . . although with adults I do tend to favor language popular among teamsters, but I usually make it all the way through the school year without letting that sneak out. In the continuum of venting techniques, I think it's pretty harmless . . . or at least forgivable."



I kinda think you're just saying these provocative things because you're feeling attacked and very defensive. I hope you don't truly believe the things you've been writing.

Teaching is a noble profession. I would think that a fellow teacher would understand more than anyone how something like this could happen but would also understand better than anyone why it is so terrible.

[UUMom]

I honestly think it is unnatural and asking for trouble to put one person in one room for 8 hours with a bunch of needy little kids day after day. It makes no sense. I can only imagine what even the best of teachers have said to kids when they were at the end of their rope. Of course, I am hoping the best of teachersd ar eable to get the hell out of the classroom, or bite their tongues at the end of a long day or year. Even if they are kind enough to the children, that sort of pressure has to take it's toll. A teacher is on the whole day, trying to emotionally and physically care for more children at one time than is not close to biologically possible. Kids are on the whole day, trying to be 'good' trying to get things done etc.

I'm not even that great of a mother, kwim? I homeschool, but i still find ways to get breaks in a day. I know me and I know my limits. Most schools are so under -staffed and under-funded. Can a teacher even leave a room for a break easily? It's not like you can walk out on kids.

I admit, I didn't bother clicking the link as I can't stomach a person harming a child. I don't believe that any one adult should be alone with a classroom of busy children for the whole day. It's a recipe for diaster, imo. Kids are needy, people get tired. Nobody can take care of 30 kids alone without support, or easily.

You couldn't pay me enough.

[UUMom]

Originally Posted by blessed

You need to not be teaching children, dear.

This is NOT normal. This is not how you are supposed to feel about your students.

We wish. We are talking about people. People with their own issues, their own lives, in a room with 30- odd children (some very needy) all day long without a break.

I am not defending, but it is one reason I homeschool. Teachers are as human as anyone. Most public school teachers have a totally ridiculous job, imo.

[A_Random_Phrase]

My brother wrote a book that he gave to his siblings about his life. In it, he told of an experience I had never heard. Now, my brother may have been a bit hyper but I don't think he was bad (he was 7 years older than me and I idolized him). Anyway, he was around 12/13 I think. A teacher got angry at him, knocked him down and stomped on him. Our mother usually sided with us when someone was unkind to us but, even though my brother hightailed it home as fast as he could, the teacher beat him to the punch and called our mother. I don't know what lies he told her but when my brother told her what had happened she didn't react like he had thought. She acted as if she didn't even care - which was highly unusual for her. Needless to say he felt violated by his mother as well as the teacher in this case. (Good thing mom was wonderful in so many other ways).

Originally Posted by LindaCl

That's a good point. But ... would you like to be a small boy forced to go to school every day to a teacher who is cruel and verbally abusive to you and everybody assumes you're the liar or a bad person who brings it on yourself. There are lifelong consequences of this stuff. Many adults I know tell me stories about teachers they were forced to endure that make my hair stand on end. We're all human, but let's be realistic. There are psycho teachers out there that can that cause a lot of harm undeterred because children aren't always believed. And when somebody is rendered so powerless, singled out and essentially dehumanized like what was going on here, there's unfortunately a very human tendency for others to join in the exclusion.

[sofiabugmom]

Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen

But to compare a doctor's professional demeanor to a teacher of young children is comparing apples and bowling balls.

Really? Both professionals are required to treat their customers (for lack of better term) with dignity, not insult them or belittle them. Both professionals have customers who look to them for guidance and learning. The only difference I see here is that the teacher has more than one customer at a time. I know I'm simplifying here, but I don't see it as apples and bowling balls, more like apples and ferns.

Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen

To return to the original discussion, although vilifying me has become quite entertaining, most people don't, won't, can't get what that teacher was going through because we haven't been exactly where she was. You can't understand how a teacher could feel frustration and stress and annoyance to the point of saying something she might regret later. And that is where empathy is needed. Trying to imagine how someone else feels.

"Saying something"? The tape was over Three. Minutes. Long. This was not just a mere quick venting. This was a monologue, all directed at one little boy. Well, no, part of it was directed at the little boy's classmates in an effort to get them to effectively shun him. This teacher brought up events from earlier in the year and predictions on what would happen to him later in life.

No, I don't know what else had gone on that day. No, I don't know what else had gone on that year. It's still no excuse for three minute long insult-fest against a kindergartener. She doesn't need empathy, she needs anger management classes, stress management classes and probably a new line of work.

[heket]

As a children's librarian, I could only begin to imagine the customer incident report I'd have to fill out, much less the interrogation from Upper management, union and peers I'd come under for an equivalent situation.

I don't think you realize, Heffer, how mild your situation currently is.

As for the the child in the original article, if he was such a problem, why wasn't he removed/ moved to another class or even special ed? From what this teacher says, she had encountered his behavior before and chose the wrong road for discipline. If I were the mom, I'd sure as hell sue the district.

And I don't care if my kinder understands your sarcasm, I'd be talking to the superintendent if the principal did not take me seriously. I can understand at the earliest acting that way with a middle schooler, but not a kindergartener. It is demeaning and rude.