Mean teacher caught on tape - Page 2

[elizawill]

Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen

But we can't know where she's coming from if we aren't her. You know, that stuff about walking a mile in her shoes . . . casting the first stone . . . all that hokey don't judge stuff. I'm a fan of it.

i don't think we need to ostracize her from society and ruin her life by any means, but we really do need to judge this and not excuse it. my kids make me crazy and i've said things i later regretted - of course!!! but i also had enough sense to apologize, ask for forgiveness, & i actually felt really bad about it. it's not something i keep doing day after day with no remorse and no change in my behavior. i felt bad because it was wrong not because i got "caught". ykwim?

i worked as a social worker for several years before i was a SAHM, and regardless of my bad days mixed with really stupid people - i was never allowed to lose self control and minimize my clients emotionally(and they were adults). children really need an advocate. i am my child's advocate & i will stand up for them. if someone spoke to my child in that manner it would just break my heart for them. i would be devastated for them. i hope this teacher does grow from this, and i do not wish ill will on her. i just think she should have consequences.

[Tinkerszs]

Just another thought, while it is isolated it does happen. Student last year accused another teacher is slamming him against the wall. This was after he was caught throwing things at moving cars. She never touched him and there were other adult witnesses. Just a week ago this same child accused another teacher of being mean and gabbing him. This child is manipulative and nasty and knows how to work the system at 9 years old. He is backed up by his mom as he ruins the careers of teachers he doesn't like.

[MattBronsil]

Didn't anyone find this part of the article a little more than creepy?

Carol Mooney, a spokeswoman with the Indiana State Teachers Association, told the New Albany News and Tribune newspaper that Woodward is well liked by co-workers, parents and students and that she had trouble with Gabriel all year.

"What do you say to a kid who's rolling around, punching, biting, kicking? What can a teacher do?" Mooney said to the newspaper.

"What can a teacher do?" The spokeswoman for that Indiana State Teachers Association has to look at that incident and say "What can a teacher do?" I hope she was just cut off in her quote and actually gave good suggestions that the media left out, which is a very valid possibility and one I hope is right.

[chfriend]

I don't think it has anything to do with parenting or bad parenting moments. This is not the child's parent. She doesn't have the years of connection and closeness to balance out this interaction. She doesn't have years to make up for it.

Imagine another professional behaving this way toward a client:

A doctor screaming at a patient

A lawyer screaming at a client

A real estate agent screaming at a homeowner.....

I'll tell you right now the professional status and possibly the license of those professionals would be on the line.

Teachers are professionals. This teacher's behavior shouldn't be defended by other teachers who hold the profession in esteem.

A *5* year old whose parents felt they had to send to school with a tape recorder. Geez.

[bigeyes]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

Did you read the article? I highlighted a few sentences....


"I've been more than nice to you all year long and you've been ignorant, selfish, self-absorbed, the whole thing! I'm done!" Woodward says to Gabriel on the tape.

Gabriel can be heard crying on the tape.

Edwards said that the worst part of the tape was when Woodward singled Gabriel out in front of the whole class.

"So you guys think, is that somebody you want to be with?" Woodward asks the class.

In unison, the other students reply, "Noooo."

"See, your friend doesn't want to be with you. I don't know what else to tell you. So you're not going to have friends because of your actions."

I do not think I am being harsh at all. I am suprised anyone is offering up justification for such behaviour. Quiter frankly, it sounds like verbal assault to me.....

that's what got me. I have had some less than stellar moments, but asking the class to join in? WTF?

There is no way this woman is fit to work with small children. (And I consider myself to be pretty foul tempered at times!) I am just flabbergasted.

[bvnms]

When Sthanie was in kindergarten I went to pick her up early from school and the office told me I could just go to her class. When my ex-h and I got to the room, we pulled open the door aand found the teacher yelling at the class. She stopped the minute she saw us standing there and she looked quite embarassed. They were being disruptive and I had a long talk with Stephanie about her behavior. I also had a talk with the principal about the teacher. Even though the kids were being disruptive, I don't believe that the teacher should have been yelling at them. It wasn't that she was raising her voice to be heard over the class, she was yelling and there are better ways to deal with kids than that.

[MattBronsil]

Another sad issue here is this may be a very good teacher who did get pushed over the edge. Now...I'm not saying that to excuse her at all. I still say she should not have gotten pushed over the edge.

The truth is that more and more schools are environments where the lack of support is appalling. Schools are much different now than they were when the teacher started 13 years ago.

I'm not saying she was right in ANY way. What she did was terrible. I'm just posing the question - when are we going to start treating this problem by looking at the entire system teachers are in rather than ONLY blaming the teacher's actions?

Yes...the teacher is 100% at fault in this. At the same time, I'm looking at preventing this in the future and schools need to seriously change or we are going to see more of these things happen. Or worse, we WON'T see them happening.

Matt "Thanks for the great educational plan, government" Bronsil

[bigeyes]

[quote=kathymuggle;11346578]

Originally Posted by Oriole

Here is a few thoughts...

1. I teach. I had a kid who cried in a parent-teacher conference accusing the team being mean to him. It was heartbreaking... IF you were not a teacher who he talked as if you are trash to the day before, and the day before.. and the day before... no matter how much kindness and patience you showed him, it was not enough. There were days the kids literaly sighed with relief when he was removed from the classroom. We heard from his mom quite a bit. Even after he slammed another kid into a locker. It was sill us making up stories about the kid. So... I'm with "what's the other side of the story" camp.

It does not matter. You do not get to talk meanly to a child because you are the adult and a role model.

2. The teacher obviously had said things she shouldn't have... Wrong things that I would never tell to another 5 y.o. YET, I have seen parents even here confessing "their crimes". As a parent, do you always say the right thing? Do you ever lose your temper? Are you sure that when faced with a difficult child you would always have patience to work through it?

As a paid professional, you do not get to lose your temper this way. No, I have not lost my temper "this way". I have said things I regret, but I have not called names or singled out a child the way that teacher did. .

3. Maybe the teacher IS awful and the children are lucky to be rid of her. Or maybe she is simply human and was at the end of her rope with a difficult child. Don't judge, and you will not be judged.

I would never be able to trust the teacher again. As per judging - I guess that is up to God, but I would at the least remove my child from her class and would very likely ask for her dismissal

4. Would you want to be videotaped by your neighbor at your worst parenting moment and for the judge to make her devision on custody based on that?..

I think vidoetaping was probably the right move. I cannot see the teacher admitting to what she said, and kids do occasionally confuse things. It's a primary source.


I am sure the teacher has a "side" - maybe he is a diffiuclt child, but that in no way excuse the behaviour of the paid, professional adult.

I think I see where you're coming from, as I have a RAD child who lies, triangulates, and tries to get me in the middle of imaginary disputes with people at school, only find out I check their story out first after a few embarrassing skirmishes. There are children who can drive an adult to distraction, then turn around and lie convincingly while looking like little angels. But not very many, and not this child. Nobody, even if they think they have been provoked, gets to talk to a child this way. Anger I understand, abuse I don't.

This woman not only berated this child on tape, she asked the other children to join in and they did on cue, as if it were a regular thing.

ugh.

[elizawill]

Originally Posted by MattBronsil

"What can a teacher do?" The spokeswoman for that Indiana State Teachers Association has to look at that incident and say "What can a teacher do?" I hope she was just cut off in her quote and actually gave good suggestions that the media left out, which is a very valid possibility and one I hope is right.

well, i would think first and foremost she should alert the principal, & i would certainly enlist the school counselor, as well as set up a family meeting. imo, behavior that invloves, biting, hittting, kicking, rolling around, punching, etc. should be a big red flag to a teacher that something is not right with this child. he obviously requires attention and resolution. his issues could vary from trouble at home to food allergies to having special needs & anything in between. so imo, the question of "what to do" is not a matrix here. but in the end, we are all in agreement of what not to do - that is for sure.

[blessed]

There's absolutely no excuse. It's insane that some of you are defending these statements.

You don't destroy a child's self esteem and adversely effect everything that he is or will be as a person because you've had a rough day.

By that same line of thinking we should excuse police brutality, or any other abuse committed by a person in a position of power.

I don't talk to people that way when I'm having a bad day. I've never talked to my child that way. I never will. If I did speak to children that way, I should be disallowed from having a position working with children.

[theretohere]

I find it highly unlikely that this was a first time thing. I can't believe here on MDC we are defending the teacher's actions against that little boy. I think she may be a decent person who was pushed too far or whatever, but her actions were completely wrong.

[bigeyes]

Well, I hope you don't think I'm defending her, because I'm not.

[MattBronsil]

Originally Posted by bigeyes

Well, I hope you don't think I'm defending her, because I'm not.

I haven't seen much defending her, but I tend not to read too much into things.

[bigeyes]

Originally Posted by MattBronsil

I haven't seen much defending her, but I tend not to read too much into things.

No, I just thought maybe my earlier remark had been misinterpreted regarding some kids who do push buttons, not the child in question.

I am quite certain this woman has been abusing him for a long time and calling on the rest of the class to join in. :

[theretohere]

Originally Posted by bigeyes

No, I just thought maybe my earlier remark had been misinterpreted regarding some kids who do push buttons, not the child in question.

I am quite certain this woman has been abusing him for a long time and calling on the rest of the class to join in. :

I'm a little touchy, sorry.

[bigeyes]

Originally Posted by theretohere

I'm a little touchy, sorry.

NP, we're all firing them off so fast it's hard to tell who's responding to who!

I'm not always sure I made myself clear.

[osubsedu]

Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen

Really? So no paid professional is allowed to exhibit basic human flaws or weaknesses, or just professionals in education? We teachers have to be perfect, all day, every day? Wow. That sounds really hard. Good thing we get paid so well.

You know, some people will say anything to get a rise out of people. This is a great example. I homeschool my children and don't get paid a dime! Yet somehow I manage to keep me cool

Any "reasonable adult" - paid, unpaid, flawed, flawless, professional or not *should* be able to see that what this teacher did was inappropriate under ANY circumstances.

Before mommyhood, I was a teacher and worked with individuals with Autism, mental retardation, behavioral issues etc from pre-k through age 60+ Sure, you have good days and bad.... BUT NEVER is this type of behavior acceptable, nor should frustrations EVER be taken out on students! I can't even believe so many of us in this thread NEED to defend/show support for the parents and the 5 yo in this story.

Yes, there are always two sides to a story.... but hostility towards a 5yo and in front of his peers to boot is unacceptable and unforgivable. This teacher shouldn't be permitted to HAVE children let alone work with them! I'd sure hate to be a child of this "low paid, high stressed" individual. And anyway, can someone tell me when having a low pay, high stress job gave you a license to act with disrespect, hatred, and in a humiliating manner?!?

Since becoming a mommy... THIS IS EXACTLY WHY I WORK FOR FREE at home - HOMESCHOOLING MY KIDS!!! Not all teacher are "bad", I know that. But the chances of my children running across someone who shares the attitude of the teacher in this story (or a couple of people in this thread) are much less in a homeschooling environment.

[SheepNumber97245]

Wow, what a bitch.

You NEVER say things like that to a five year old. At that age, things like that stick with you for the rest of your life. I mean, she was actually trying to get the other kids to go against him! Now not only is she effecting his self esteem, she's effecting his ability to make friends because they probably are embarrased to be seen with him and he's probably going to be reluctant to try to make friends. It also effects his view of authority figures. How DARE she cause such negativity in such a young life.

What if the other kids then decided to gang up on him and beat him up? I wonder if the story on the news had been "Kids beat up 5 year old because of what teacher said" if you people who are sticking up for her would think twice...

[Heffernhyphen]

Originally Posted by elizawill

i don't think we need to ostracize her from society and ruin her life by any means . . . i do not wish ill will on her. i just think she should have consequences.

She was caught in her worst moment and it's been broadcast around the world. Everyone she knows has heard it. Everyone she knows is buzzing about it. She probably can't go to the grocery store or out to get the paper off the curb without feeling ashamed.

She is ostracized. She is ruined. She is suffering consequences.

Of course I think what she did was terrible. She made a huge error in judgment. I just think she deserves some slack because I know how hard the job is. And under extreme stress, sometimes we make really poor decisions. If you make a really stupid decision at work today, should you be fired immediately?

[LauraLoo]

Have you ever noticed that when you call into a customer service phone support center they typically give you that recording telling you that your phone call may (or will be) monitored for quality assurance purposes? Why do they do this? I would venture to guess that this is a lower paying, high stress position potentially dealing with difficult customers. If a phone service rep told you "You are a pathetic, self-absorbed client that has made every wrong choice possible!" What would you do? What do you think the employer would do?

It is very possible that this teacher did not have adequate support from the administration to effectively deal with a chronic problem. I'm certain that this was not an enjoyable experience for her. But to be a teacher and not expect or plan to deal with difficult students seems to be a horrible oversight. Right now we do not know any of the steps that the teacher took to make the situation better - and since it seems to have been a chronic issue, she did have time to think. But what do you think would have happened if this teacher walked into the principal's office and said "I have a big problem that I don't think that I can handle without completely losing it with a child." If the answer was something along the lines of "Figure it out for yourself," the teacher had a decision to make - continue working in this scenario or find another job. As it is right now, I would guess her employment opportunities in education will be very, very limited.

I am highly supportive of teachers, and IMO, we need more good ones. I think teaching is a labor of love, and I've never spoken to a teacher who didn't want to make a difference in their students' lives. I would hate to think that my child would attend a school where teachers aren't supported by the administration to make good decisions. Maybe this scenario is a warning for teachers to consider how they are being supported, and what the alternatives are if they find themselves at a breaking point. I'd certainly hate to hear about more instances like the one we're discussing.