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Mean teacher caught on tape - Page 3

post #41 of 165
I think yes you should be fired if you're worst moment involves young children. Sorry. What the heck was she saying BEFORE the taping happened?? I am very sensitive because I wish I would have taped my 11 yr old daughters teachers last year so I could play a tape for my school board when I tell them I am taking my daughter out of school and I feel like any child who is subjected to those same teachers is a victim. Teachers who cannot keep thier cool tend towards harsh abusive language.
And the low pay is no no no excuse. Sorry, no freakin way is that a reason to torment a little guy. Ever.
I have had to walk out of my kindergarten class in frustration, even been brought to tears- no doubt high stress. My 3 yr old drives me crazy some days and should I be excused if I start verbally abusing him? Oh, and I have lots of other stressors. Then is it OK???
NO NO NO. It is very bad, I am so thankful this woman lost her job and while I enjoy my kids in the sanctuary of our home I hope people start taping every mean and abusive teacher out there. Get rid of them. Send them home.
And of course teachers can do the same. Tape that horrid little kindergartener. Then you can let his parents figure out what is best for him. I have to say I would feel violent towards this woman if my kids were in that class. I would be furious and vengeful. I would feel very little compassion for anyone except those kids.
I'm mean, I know. And sensitive about this subject for sure.
post #42 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen View Post
She was caught in her worst moment and it's been broadcast around the world. Everyone she knows has heard it. Everyone she knows is buzzing about it. She probably can't go to the grocery store or out to get the paper off the curb without feeling ashamed.

She is ostracized. She is ruined. She is suffering consequences.

Of course I think what she did was terrible. She made a huge error in judgment. I just think she deserves some slack because I know how hard the job is. And under extreme stress, sometimes we make really poor decisions. If you make a really stupid decision at work today, should you be fired immediately?

well i guess you need reminding that YOU shared this video with all of us and YOU started this thread. so hats-off to ya for your contribution in having even more people judge this "poor underpaid" teacher who has been treated with such injustice.

and yes, if i were still in the workforce and made a very stupid mistake comparable to the one this teacher made - i think losing my job would be a reasonable consequence.
post #43 of 165
i'm also wondering, how do you know this was her "worst moment" - it seems the recording took place because the parents were suspicious of an ongoing verbal battery....so how do you know this wasn't one of her better days with gabriel? you are so defensive of her & i can't grasp as to why? without disrespect, who cares if you are a teacher! if another social worker behaved this way, i would not be defending them just because i know how difficult that job is and underpaid they are.

i believe you can have compassion and consequences simultaneously. you can wish the best for this teacher and pray that her life will grow and change from this experience, but allowing her to maintain her positon at this school teaching 5 year olds is simply not acceptable.
post #44 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by SheepNumber97245 View Post
What if the other kids then decided to gang up on him and beat him up? I wonder if the story on the news had been "Kids beat up 5 year old because of what teacher said" if you people who are sticking up for her would think twice...
This teacher's behavior fits every single criteria for BULLYING. If she were another five year old, this behavior would not have been tolerated. Here the teacher was modeling this behavior for the class.

Absolutely inexusable.

I think the OP also needs reminding that - believe it or not - most people do not react to stress by treating children this way. This is not a normal thing, by any far stretch of the imagination.
post #45 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by elizawill View Post
oh wow! i've not seen that before or heard about it! that's unbelievable!!

i was equally floored by some of the comments! one person actually comments how unfair it is that the teacher's rights were so violated by being secretly recorded & how awful that was!!!! she was so upset for the teacher!!!! WHAT????
I agree.

What this teacher was doing was a form of child abuse. IMO it's no different than catching a nanny on tape inside someone's home abusing a tiny baby. I can't believe this child had to go through day after day of such verbal abuse. This child is way too young to stand up for himself and it's not as if he could talk back to the teacher. Even a bad, unruly child doesn't deserve to be spoken to in such a manner. This teacher is supposed to know how to handle children if that's her job and if she can't then she should have sought out his parents help earlier in the year to work with her on his problems, not to turn around and abuse him.

The parents entrusted this woman with her child all day long. How incredibly sad.
post #46 of 165
Quote:
Of course I think what she did was terrible. She made a huge error in judgment. I just think she deserves some slack because I know how hard the job is. And under extreme stress, sometimes we make really poor decisions. If you make a really stupid decision at work today, should you be fired immediately?
I totally disagree. If she can't handle her job then she should quit. She isn't working in an office as a receptionist or dealing with other adults all day. She is dealing with innocent little kids that can't stand up for themselves. What she did was unexcusable. I don't care if this child was the worst child she has ever had in her classroom or even if he was the biggest bully in class. The things she said to him are not acceptable. She is the adult next to this child's parents that is responsible for him for that 7 hours each day. If she couldn't handle him then she should have sought out a school counselor or contacted the parents immediately, but her verbal abuse was not proper or decent.

And if she was having a "bad day" or it was her "worst moment" then what about all the other times the kid went home crying about his teacher being abusive? She was a bad teacher and I hope she never teaches again. She doesn't deserve to be around innocent little children.

I'm sad to think of how many other children went through her abuse in her years of teaching. I'm glad this kid recognized that he didn't deserve that type of verbal abuse and got her caught.
post #47 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen View Post
If you make a really stupid decision at work today, should you be fired immediately?
I work in aerospace. If I make a really stupid decision, it could mean life or death on your next flight, so yes.
post #48 of 165
Thread Starter 
Remember that movie The Childrens Hour, with Audrey Hepburn and Shirley MacLaine? A little girl in their school gets mad at them for punishing her so she cooks up this story about them being lesbians. The women lose their jobs, and one of them eventually takes her own life.

I know, it's fiction, and not particularly relevant to this case. But I can't help thinking of it as you all rally behind this innocent FIVE-YEAR-OLD as if he so pure and perfect he couldn't possibly have done anything wrong. We have no idea what this kid was like, all day, every day for nine months.

Maybe you just don't ever lose your cool, even with your own kids, but most of us do from time to time. And if you can lose your cool and say regretable things to your own precious child from time to time, can't you dredge up a drop of empathy for a woman who had to deal with somebody else's little hellion all day? Seriously?

The report says this kid was rolling on the floor, kicking and biting. What if he was kicking and biting YOUR kid every day? Would you ease up on the teacher a bit? What if his behavior was making it impossible for the teacher to teach YOUR kid? Principals and counselors don't just whisk problematic kids out of the classroom so we can teach. We are expected to handle it. I suspect this teacher had exhausted every approach she could come up with in the nine months leading to this day. And then she lost it. She was, as she said, done.

The woman needs a Classroom Management refresher for sure. She needs a support network. Maybe even counseling, but she does not need to lose her job. If she'd hit him, yes. But an ugly tirade, no.

It's interesting to me that so many of us here at MDC are anti-punishment, but so eager to see this woman bleed.
post #49 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen View Post
The report says this kid was rolling on the floor, kicking and biting. What if he was kicking and biting YOUR kid every day? Would you ease up on the teacher a bit? What if his behavior was making it impossible for the teacher to teach YOUR kid? Principals and counselors don't just whisk problematic kids out of the classroom so we can teach. We are expected to handle it. I suspect this teacher had exhausted every approach she could come up with in the nine months leading to this day. And then she lost it. She was, as she said, done.
If another child was biting and kicking my child on a consistent basis, no way would I let up on the teacher! On the contrary - I'd be in her face and the administrations face every.single.day until it was resolved.

Can you honestly say that she came up with every approach possible? Allegedly, she had failed to meet with the parents - even after they approached her - to discuss a behavior plan. She didn't "have time for it."

I am having a hard time believing that if this kid was as disruptive as described that there wouldn't have been some type of intervention. Certainly after 3 or 6 months someone other than the teacher would have to had an inkling that this kid was causing a problem bigger than the teacher's ability to handle it. I'm assuming that there would have been visitors and volunteers to this classroom on a fairly regular basis. Someone would have said something. Heck -- parents would have complained for something far less disruptive! So, I'm wondering if the kid really was as bad as she said, or if she had absolutely no support from the administration to do anything about the issue. I find it hard to believe that a child that was described as rolling on the floor, kicking and biting would have been ignored by the principal and/or counselors. Most schools I know of have a problem behavior plan in place. But then again, she didn't meet with the parents (allegedly,) so maybe that was the first step. And if she didn't take time for the first step, maybe no one higher up was involved.

Heffernhyphen - I know that you feel compelled to defend her and that she shouldn't be fired. But I'm really confused that you aren't also able to suggest what she *could* have done before she verbally berated the child?
post #50 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen View Post
It's interesting to me that so many of us here at MDC are anti-punishment, but so eager to see this woman bleed.
I don't think she should bleed. She should be fired, but she probably won't because her union will fight to keep her in the classroom.
post #51 of 165
double post
post #52 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen View Post
Remember that movie The Childrens Hour, with Audrey Hepburn and Shirley MacLaine? A little girl in their school gets mad at them for punishing her so she cooks up this story about them being lesbians. The women lose their jobs, and one of them eventually takes her own life.

I know, it's fiction, and not particularly relevant to this case. But I can't help thinking of it as you all rally behind this innocent FIVE-YEAR-OLD as if he so pure and perfect he couldn't possibly have done anything wrong. We have no idea what this kid was like, all day, every day for nine months.

Maybe you just don't ever lose your cool, even with your own kids, but most of us do from time to time. And if you can lose your cool and say regretable things to your own precious child from time to time, can't you dredge up a drop of empathy for a woman who had to deal with somebody else's little hellion all day? Seriously?

The report says this kid was rolling on the floor, kicking and biting. What if he was kicking and biting YOUR kid every day? Would you ease up on the teacher a bit? What if his behavior was making it impossible for the teacher to teach YOUR kid? Principals and counselors don't just whisk problematic kids out of the classroom so we can teach. We are expected to handle it. I suspect this teacher had exhausted every approach she could come up with in the nine months leading to this day. And then she lost it. She was, as she said, done.

The woman needs a Classroom Management refresher for sure. She needs a support network. Maybe even counseling, but she does not need to lose her job. If she'd hit him, yes. But an ugly tirade, no. It's interesting to me that so many of us here at MDC are anti-punishment, but so eager to see this woman bleed.
Unbelievable. I have to go soon, but I would not be suprised if this thread were locked by the time I get back.


The first two bolded words were mine. You are showing an incredible amount of judmentalism against families and children in your words. I am glad most teachers are not like you - callous towards children and defending teachers even when they are clearly in the wrong.

As per the last words I highlighted, I would almost prefer my child be hit to what this child had to put up with. Abuse is not only physical - there is verbal abuse as well, and it can go really deep. Name calling? Having the teacher contribute to turning his classmates against him?

It is indefensible.

I do not doubt that schools are pressure cookers and teachers need more resources and help - but this in no way excuses this behaviour.

True story - when I was 15 I worked as a babysitter for about 10 kids during an adult program. The kids were running wild, and I was in over my head. I quit - I knew it was not safe for the kids. You would think if a 15 yr old knew to quit the teacher should have known and got help (or quit) before she reached that point. OH, and not once did I yell foul names at the kids (or any kids since - and yes, I work with them or single them out for disdain among their peers.

Kathy
post #53 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oriole View Post
Here is a few thoughts...

1. I teach. I had a kid who cried in a parent-teacher conference accusing the team being mean to him. It was heartbreaking... IF you were not a teacher who he talked as if you are trash to the day before, and the day before.. and the day before... no matter how much kindness and patience you showed him, it was not enough. There were days the kids literaly sighed with relief when he was removed from the classroom. We heard from his mom quite a bit. Even after he slammed another kid into a locker. It was sill us making up stories about the kid. So... I'm with "what's the other side of the story" camp.

2. The teacher obviously had said things she shouldn't have... Wrong things that I would never tell to another 5 y.o. YET, I have seen parents even here confessing "their crimes". As a parent, do you always say the right thing? Do you ever lose your temper? Are you sure that when faced with a difficult child you would always have patience to work through it?

3. Maybe the teacher IS awful and the children are lucky to be rid of her. Or maybe she is simply human and was at the end of her rope with a difficult child. Don't judge, and you will not be judged.

4. Would you want to be videotaped by your neighbor at your worst parenting moment and for the judge to make her devision on custody based on that?..
I pretty much agree with this.

Her voice seemed more worn out and exasperated more than anything. She wasn't shouting it at him. Although the things she said were pretty horrible Singling him out and making the other kids hate him is very cruel.
Its a tough call all around.

I wonder where was her support?
What is the principles role in the school? (an honest question as I don't know), but I imagine problem solving and checking up on the teachers is part of the job. Also, I don't think teachers really get much say in the kids they get in thier class. They are stuck with the kids wether the child fits in or not.
post #54 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by elizawill View Post
i'm also wondering, how do you know this was her "worst moment" - it seems the recording took place because the parents were suspicious of an ongoing verbal battery....so how do you know this wasn't one of her better days with gabriel? you are so defensive of her & i can't grasp as to why? without disrespect, who cares if you are a teacher! if another social worker behaved this way, i would not be defending them just because i know how difficult that job is and underpaid they are.

i believe you can have compassion and consequences simultaneously. you can wish the best for this teacher and pray that her life will grow and change from this experience, but allowing her to maintain her positon at this school teaching 5 year olds is simply not acceptable.
How do you know they didn't send a tape recorder everyday and wait for her to finally say something they could use against her?
If they knew something was going on they should have stepped in sooner.
post #55 of 165
Okay, I'm really tired of hearing some of you say "don't you lose your cool...."

SHE DIDN"T LOSE HER COOL. She apparently did this consistently every day for at least a month. That is what prompted the parents to send their child to school with a tape recorder. :
post #56 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by BunnySlippers View Post
How do you know they didn't send a tape recorder everyday and wait for her to finally say something they could use against her?
If they knew something was going on they should have stepped in sooner.
okay, i'll assume that the family planted the tape recorder all year long. i'll also assume they were just waiting for this teacher to crack under stress so they could stick it to her good. does this new scenario in mind make me see things differently? no, it does not.

to insinuate the parents should have "stepped in sooner" as if they are to blame for what happened....and to insinuate that this teacher is somehow a victim - ugh!!! it's just insane to me!!!! i think i'll bail out of this thread.

you all are just blowing MY MIND!
post #57 of 165
Quick question: Did the parents have to send him with the tape recorder for a number of days or weeks before getting this or did they get this on the first day?

Because if they caught it after one or two days I *highly* doubt this was her first time verbally abusing him. If that's the case, plus the fact that other kids joined in on cue, leads me to to believe that she has been doing this for quite some time and wasn't just a slip-up on her part.

ETA: oops, just realized this was already brought up.
post #58 of 165
I just found this longer chunk of the recording. It doesn't make what happened any clearer, but it certainly emphasizes that the teachers motive was to humiliate this child.

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/...WS02/805290451

oops- there is an error page there. I'll see if the video is easy to find at the home page....

Go to www.courier-journal.com

The article is called "parents of floyd boy talk on tv" That should get you to the audio.
post #59 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmos View Post
I just found this longer chunk of the recording. It doesn't make what happened any clearer, but it certainly emphasizes that the teachers motive was to humiliate this child.

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/...WS02/805290451

oops- there is an error page there. I'll see if the video is easy to find at the home page....

Go to www.courier-journal.com

The article is called "parents of floyd boy talk on tv" That should get you to the audio.
OMG that made me cry. it is a billion times worse than the first recording. i hope she LOSES HER JOB FOR GOOD!
post #60 of 165
how did you get it to play? I keep getting an error message and the search doesn't locate it.
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