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'america's funniest videos'. ha ha. - Page 3

post #41 of 49
Uhhhh ... Frank, I enjoy letting your posts stand for themselves, Frank. Really, I do.







Anyway ... have heard of only one incidence of complication of a bris in my entire life. One. That's it. And most traditional Jews have heard of absolutely no complications. Zero. And the particular mohel who did that bris should have retired long before ... and the complication was entirely cosmetic, and unfortunately, that bris was my nephew's, but that's another story.

Maybe there are less complications during brisim because traditional mohels are true specialists ... the very traditional ones may do literally thousands of them a year. That's all they do. As opposed to a doctor who may do, what, tops, 50 a year.

And the Jewish procedures to calm the babies and the difference in the actual performance of the procedure ... including the baby sucking on a wine-covered cloth, holding the baby in someone's arms during the procedure, no clamps, and giving the baby to the mother to nurse immediately following ... may also have something to do with the lack of extreme complications such as those you mentioned.


Granted, there are brisim that are not like the traditional ones I describe ... the one in the OP in particular ...





Before anyone jumps all over me, here's the disclaimer: I'm not defending anything or looking for support for anything or anything. I am specifically answering Frank's comments about potential complications for a bris.




And his insinuations about me being cheap ... :LOL but of course, after I'm done running the banks and plotting the new world order, I've got to save some money somewhere, right?

:LOL

Thanks, Frank. I needed that ...

:LOL
post #42 of 49
I'm glad you can laugh Amy. Frank that statement is stunning both for it's ugliness and the level of ignorance it displays.
post #43 of 49
Here is the Swedish law regarding circumcision:


A boy under the age of two months old may be circumcised by a person who is not a registered physician provided that person has obtained special authorization from the National Board of Health and Welfare

No boy may be circumcised without an anaesthetic, which must be administered either by a registered physician or by a registered nurse


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1572483.stm


I think this is just prudent. It is just common sense that no sentient being should have to undergo surgery without anesthesia; I can't believe this even needed to be made law, and very saddened that the majority of circumcision in the US are done without any pain relief.

I am curious as to why Jewish people would object to this law.


Kim
post #44 of 49
Kim, my understanding is that the current Swedish law was arrived at after the Muslim and Jewish communities jointly and together worked to make it something acceptable to those for whom it was relevant; ie., Muslims and Jews.

Considering that nobody else in Sweden circumcises, and that the original proposed law was to ban the procedure entirely in any circumstance at all ... I'm not sure that anyone is objecting to it.

Any complaints that remain would be only to government intrusion in religious practice ... which is understandable. Or at least we Americans claim to understand separation of church and state as such ...
post #45 of 49
Quote:
Originally posted by Frankly Speaking


Amy, you surprise me. You are reinforcing the stereotypes of Jews! Worried about the cost of a nurse being in attendance? Come on now! There are companies that supply visiting nurses located every where at a cost that would even be acceptable to Jews!




Frank
\


that's not funny. frankly, its disgusting.
post #46 of 49
Amy:

I have heard of one death, one partial amputation of the glans and one case of severe hemorraging. Considering the secrecy about this, the fact that the complications are not separated out by religion and the small size of the jewish population, I suspect that complications of ritual circumcisions just about match those of the population in general if not higher. In other words, much too high. There is also the case of the Mohel who was caught D.U.I driving from one bris to another.

And before anyone starts screaming anti-semitism, . . . . . Just forget it.





Frank
post #47 of 49
Quote:
understand separation of church and state as such ...
The separation of Church and State wouldn't allow me to sacrifice goats or walk around the streets naked, if my religion asked me to do so (just examples off the top of my head).
Just because something may be part of a religion, it doesn't mean that it should be allowed by the gov't.
post #48 of 49
Excuse me, Ilaria. Adherents of Santeria perform animal sacrifices. There is also a holiday when Muslims perform sacrifices. In the case of the Muslim holiday, the animals are (according to my understanding) properly butchered and eaten ... or given to charity, not sure which ... but anyway, point of fact, they do happen.

But anyway, a several-thousand-year-old tradition is kind of hard for a government to stop entirely. Can you think of another example of something this ancient?

Not knowing the history of female circumcision, but knowing that the cultures that follow this practice also don't have a written tradition/record of when it began ... or how it began ... or how to perform it ... so we don't know. Well, anyway, will have to look around sometime and find that out.




Frank, the DUI mohel was not an Orthodox mohel. I can't speak to otherly-denominated mohelim or brisim, as they are not as ... let's say experienced ... as the Orthodox ones. Just purely because of family size as it relates to numbers of boys born ...

You know what? There's a Jewish tradition not to eat chicken the afternoon before the Yom Kippur fast begins, so that you won't choke on a bone and die before you have your last opportunity to recite the ritual viduy, or confession. Don't know why your examples of complications made me think of that ...




And nobody has screamed those words, Frank. As a matter of fact, I'm bending over backwards not to.

As I said, your posts speak for themselves.



Glad to see other mamas also see that they speak for themselves.

post #49 of 49
Quote:
Excuse me, Ilaria. Adherents of Santeria perform animal sacrifices.
ANd those are not punishable by law?
Either way, like I said, mine were simply examples...my point being that just because a religion might dictate you do something, the gov't will not just sit there and let you do it in all cases.
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