4 year olds and namecalling

[RLWS]

My son is 4 years and 8 months old. He is very sensitive, shy, sweet, and loving. But, of course we do have our issues. At preschool (I'm assuming) he learned to call people "stupid" when he's angry. He's had huge anger issues over the last year. In the last 3 or 4 months, he's been verbally expressing his anger in innapropriate ways, like saying he wants to hurt us or break things, in a variety of creative ways. For example, "I'm so mad I will break your eyeballs!" Lately, he's been calling me stupid. Nearly every time I tell him no, he says, "Stupid mama!" or "You're stupid!"

My reaction to all of this has been to ignore the namecalling or threats, and acknowledge his real feelings--like if he calls me stupid, I might say, "You're so angry that we can't go to a restaurant tonight. I hear you, you're just so mad about it, you thought it would be really fun to go." Or I might pick him up and take him to the rocking chair and just sit and rock and talk gently about how it's ok to be angry but that he needs to use calm words and talk to me without using hurtful words.

It's not working.

It's also causing me to feel very disconnected from him. I try so hard to create situations where I say "no" as little as possible, where the day is pleasant and happy and I get to spend lots of time playing with him on his terms. I try not to take it personally, but it's really wearing on me to hear that I'm stupid and that he wants to hurt me a million times a day. It's also a little disconcerting the many ways he can think of that he might like to hurt someone. I'm feeling so hurt by it because I love him so much. It's so confusing when he can say he hates me and that I'm stupid, and 2 minutes later that he loves me and I'm his best friend. I don't know what to do to stop this behavior. We've tried so many different ways to help him manage his anger, and it just still seems to control him.

Help!

[abeliamama]

I remember when my son started preschool we got a lot of this namecalling. One day he came home and said, "I'm gonna chop off your head and throw it in the trash!". I was mortified! I do think that your son is processing what he hears at school and maybe he feels safe saying it to you since he knows you will love him no matter what. School is stressful for my son (he has some sensory issues).Your son may be acting out because he has held it together all day at school and then lets it loose at home. I find that a restaurant after a school day is too much for mine. He is in school until 2:30. He needs the home time to chill. Boys (not girls in my son's school) says the darndest things at that age. I think it mostly just experimenting and that little malice is meant. It sounds like you are doing a good job helping him learn to express himself better. I don't know if it has gotten better in our house or if I am just more used to it. Good Luck.

Mama to DD 4-00 and DS 4-03

[One_Girl]

At this age these things are more expressions of intense anger than actual hate and often young kids are frightened by their intense anger and need to reconnect quickly after being angry. I find that modeling expressing anger, being available for communication, taking time off from my schedule to pick dd up early once a week and have a special day, helping dd with phrasing her anger in ways that don't use name calling, and having a no name calling rule are all very effective ways to help dd keep her temper under more control. She tends to get very frustrated and there is a short time frame between being frustrated and furious for her and if I can find a way to communicate with her through jokes or negotiation during that time I can help her to maintain her self-control. I have noticed that dd seems a lot angrier during times when she is not getting a lot of choice and say in her life and she starts to do better almost immediately when I reassess the rules and the goals for them and discard the unnecessary ones that I fall back on when I dip into mainstream mode.

[RLWS]

Thanks for your replies. It is helpful to know that other children sometimes behave this way too. He is such a sensitive child and I know that he craves more time and attention from me. The thing is, he gets sooo much attention from me already, and it just isn't enough for him. He wants 100% of me and it can be exhausting, not to mention impossible. Today I spent 2 hours with him in the morning--going to the donut shop and the library together, totally focused on him. In the afternoon I spent another 2 hours with him, playing ball outside, doing sidewalk chalk, hunting wild strawberries, reading. And still, when I needed to make a 10 minute phone call he began yelling at me to come see something in his room and when I asked him to wait a few minutes, he hit me twice. I just don't know what to do about that kind of thing. We had a long talk/snuggle in his bed after that, and just like every time we talk about it, he seems to understand why it isn't ok, but I know it will happen again. It just has to stop but I have no idea how.

[abeliamama]

I see by your signature you recently had a baby. Has his behaivor escalted since she was born?

[Justmee]

I think a lot of it is the age. My kids also started preschool this year and they have learned how to tease people :

Anyway just try to take comfort in the fact that he's not the only one learning the social graces...

[RLWS]

Originally Posted by abeliamama

I see by your signature you recently had a baby. Has his behaivor escalted since she was born?

Surprisingly to me, his behavior has gotten a little bit better since his sister was born. During the pregnancy I felt sick and exhausted all the time, and so I couldn't always do the usual active play that he likes, such as tag. That was very hard on him. He also seemed a little overwhelmed by the anticipation, and everyone talking to him about the baby-who-was-soon-to-arrive probably made him anxious. Since her birth, the behaviors continue, but not with as much frequency or severity. But still they persist. I am much more able to play with him the way he likes now, and his sister sleeps like rip van winkle so he and I do get plenty of one-on-one time. He adores his sister and has only good things to say about her, but I am sure that he is feeling deeper emotions that I can't get him to talk about--feelings which are probably causing his anger. I'm not sure where to go from here.

Thanks,
lora

[swampangel]

I agree with the pp's that it's pretty typical for the age and also the baby probably has something to do with it. Even though it's better than your pregnancy, it's probably still a significant factor. I think that will just ease with time.

How long would say it's been going on?

One thought I have is that when parents feel "this needs to change", it probably does. If you had the feeling that this was a phase and you had to ride it out, that would be another thing. But it sounds like your intuition is telling you that intervening with this is needed to turn it around. I wonder if along with the validating of emotions and connection that you do (which sounds wonderful) you can also be clear (either verbally or with some kind of alone time or "time-in") that saying hurtful things to people isn't acceptable.

[Hazelnut]

My son does the same. He also learned a lot of it at preschool, although the sort of violent talk began earlier and I've read that that is totally normal. I don't ignore it anymore.

[columbusmomma]

I am seconding what Hazelnut said!

[honeybee]

Do we have the same child?

Ds1 has been doing the same thing, only when he is upset he tends to threaten us with "I'm going to shoot you if you don't do X."

Honestly, you seem to be handling it better than I do. I will rephrase his feelings, etc. a few times, but as he keeps going, I reach my limit and say "We've discussed this and I'm done talking about it. Go to your room until you can calm down." Which he doesn't do very willingly, actually. I will also tell him it is not acceptable to say those things because it hurts feelings.

But, really, I get more annoyed by the screaming and carrying on then by the words he uses. He is so tenacious and will just go ON and ON that it drives me batty. But, I don't take his words about shooting seriously. Kids exaggerate because it's the only way they know how to express these huge feelings. It's hard for them to separate the behavior they dislike (not letting them have their way) from the person when they're in the moment. So, those kinds of things roll off my back. I don't take things said in the heat of a tantrum personally, kwim?

As for things not changing, I think sometimes it is so gradual that we don't notice when it stops, but all of a sudden we realize we don't have a certain problem much anymore.

The last couple of days, ds1 has been really improved. I don't know if it is because we've been outdoors all day, or because school is over and he doesn't have that added stress (his teacher is great, but I think he puts a lot of pressure on himself to be "good" at school, so he needs to release that pressure in the safety and comfort of home), or because he has gotten consistent good nights' sleep, or what. But, he has been able to stop himself from flying off the handle and using better ways to address his needs/wants (with help/reminders).

Hang in there! You're doing great!

[gokiamma]

Gosh! I am really grateful for this thread. I have a 4.5 year old too, who yesterday said " Mommy if you say that I will squish you and drink your blood".. I am still gasping for air at his remark He goes to a Montessori (FT) and i know that his teachers are very strict about discipline. In any case Ichecked with his teacher and she said he is very well behaved in school.

not just that offlate, he has been talking back a lot. Since we also have a 7 month old, I think I seriously need to start paying attention to my 4 yo. The teacher suggested that I be very strict with him (use stern voice and discourage) whenever he acts up.

[swampangel]

It does seem that with so many experiencing it, it's pretty typical for this age. I totally agree with Hazelnut that ignoring it isn't the way to go. I think kids are sometimes screaming for boundaries and limits (I know this sounds a bit old-school) when they are coming apart like that. At those times, I try to remember that I am the container and it's my job to help him reel it in and/or find more appropriate ways to express feelings. I think validating is always the first step, but addressing the offensive language and downright meanness is really important, IMO.

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by gokiamma

Gosh! I am really grateful for this thread. I have a 4.5 year old too, who yesterday said " Mommy if you say that I will squish you and drink your blood".. I am still gasping for air at his remark He goes to a Montessori (FT) and i know that his teachers are very strict about discipline. In any case Ichecked with his teacher and she said he is very well behaved in school.

not just that offlate, he has been talking back a lot. Since we also have a 7 month old, I think I seriously need to start paying attention to my 4 yo. The teacher suggested that I be very strict with him (use stern voice and discourage) whenever he acts up.

Not to get too far off topic, but this doesn't sound very Montessori-like to me. Ds1 also goes to a Montessori preschool, and his teacher always uses a very quiet, gentle voice. She is really wonderful at setting boundaries with the kids but remaining very respectful of them. I wish I had her patience!

I don't find the stern voice thing to be very effective w/ ds1. The more "stern" dh reacts to him, the more the whole thing escalates. You can't rationalize with ds1 when he's in the middle of a meltdown. The explanations about how to rephrase his emotions needs to happen later. But, I don't have to listen to the verbal abuse either, and will ask him to go elsewhere to calm down if he can't refrain from name-calling.

OP, have you read The Highly Sensitive Child? It's a great book with a lot of insights!

[Hazelnut]

Yeah I'm not so good at feeling affirmation in the middle of being told he's going to chop my head off. : Maybe I'm too busy being humbled b/c I never thought I'd have one of those violent-talking boys. Half the time he just does it out of the blue. : But he hasn't seen any violent tv or anything (unless you count stupid sponge bob at grandma's) so I try not to assign too much meaning to the ickyness of it.

[punkrawkmama27]

I am so glad for this thread too! Ds just turned 4, and that same day we put him in baseball. That was his first real activity outside of the home. He also has started saying "stupid" and "I hate you", "I hate daddy or mommy" "dummy" and the "I am going to shoot your brains out". That last one freaked me out. He is really into super man and popeye as I like the old cartoons, but I got so worried that they were so violent for him that he is no longer able to watch them. Today I heard him outside with dd and her friends and they were all saying those things. I cant count how many times I heard them call one another stupid or that they hated someone. It really makes me sad, because I dont like hearing such intense words from ds. Dh always gets angry about it, but I try to talk to him and like pp said I make his days fun like walking to the park or letting them eat outside or go to the pool. But it does make me feel like a terrible parent like I am doing something wrong when he talks like that. I am kinda glad to see that it is kinda normal for a boy his age.

[punkrawkmama27]

Oh and I had to add, the reason I put in my 1st post that he just started baseball, it seems that the day we started that was the day he started talking like that and even spitting. I am not sure if they are related, but that is what comes to mind. Like maybe it is just too much for him at this age. I dunno.

[RLWS]

Update

I wrote this post what feels like a long time ago. I wanted to give an update on our situation.

Things are 100% better!

We decided to stick with our plan of being gentle (and firm), and lots of affirming his emotions, and just basically trying to help him handle his feelings. The one thing we changed was starting "time-ins." He LOVES time-in. When he starts getting angry, I ask him if he wants a time-in. He'll say yes, and so we go to our spot and just sit. I don't say a word. I just listen to him. Sometimes I will say, "I understand." but I just let him lead the conversation. I think that has helped.

Really though, I think it's a combination of him getting used to having a baby sister around, turning 5 (I've heard the half-years are the hardest.), and just finally being able to absorb what we've been trying to teach him. He also really loves his preschool experience this year, and I do think that routine has helped.

For the last month he has been extremely gentle, loving, no hitting, no namecalling, etc. He's been so polite too. We do have to deal with occasional outbursts of course, but he's able to manage them in ways that are acceptable to us. I find that I will brace myself, out of habit, before I tell him no, only to breathe a sigh of relief when he says, "Oh, ok that's fine."

So thanks all for the advice, and I want to say to anyone else who is dealing with this, it will probably get better! Trust in your instincts and even if your gentle discipline doesn't seem to be working in the moment, it will likely pay off soon.

-Lora

[kayleesmom]

big hugs how are things going now

[columbusmomma]

That's great Lora!