having trouble dealing with meltdowns ...

[mlleoiseau]

that happen around other people.

Dd is four. She is mostly a gentle, cooperative, happy child. But she has meltdowns that I find hard to deal with. Mostly I try to let her know it's okay to be upset, but it's not okay to throw toys, etc. I will often go lay down on the bed with her and be with her til she feels better. Mostly they happen when she's tired or hungry, and I can always empathize with her.

But I don't know how to help her find ways of expressing herself other than crying and throwing toys. And I don't know how to deal with her when her meltdowns happen at inconvenient times (like out to eat or when company is over.)

For example, friends were over Tuesday with their almost 3 yo ds. He likes to run around in circles, throw toys and bang toys against the wall/floor/etc. He was hitting her butterfly net against the floor and it broke. She had a fit. He wanted to play with Mr Potato Head and accidentally tore the box. She had a fit. He wanted to play with her stroller, and she had a fit cause she didn't want him to. She got out her dog purse to play with and then had a fit because he wanted to play with it.

I ended up putting her in the bedroom by herself cause I didn't know what else to do. The friends who were over are spankers, and I know they were thinking she needed spanking.

In hindsight, dd was hungry and if I had addressed that, I think things would have gone better. Plus, we don't have people over very often and dd is not used to playing with other children with her stuff. Although she's generally pretty sharing.

I did talk to her before they came over and asked her to put away any toys she didn't want to be played with. She did, but she said she forgot to put away the dog purse. She tried to put it away while he was here, but he saw her doing it and tried to get it.

I'm kind of feeling like these meltdowns are out of my league entirely. I don't know how to deal with them constructively. I don't have good social skills, and I don't express my emotions well. Plus I'm dealing with some depression and irritability right now.

Any advice would be appreciated. Tia!

[Justmee]

Do we have the same dd?????

now but I'm going to try to come back to this thread later. One of my twins has a lot of these behaviors. For now a and I'll try to drop by soon

[covertlycrunchy]

As to what happened with your friends over I totally empathize with your dd. I'd have a fit too if someone came over to my house and started to break my things! I wouldn't want them to touch anything else either! But since I wasn't there I can't tell you how it went down from your pov but it kinda sounds like THEIR kid needs to respect your dd's playthings. It's HER house and HER stuff, yes she needs to share with a guest but guests shouldn't run around being crazy either, responsibility goes both ways. Your right though she probably would have handled it better if she'd eaten. Maybe if you have kids over next time you could either give her a snack before hand or put out some munchies for everyone whilst they visit. Something that is easy to eat and doesn't make TOO big a mess? The only thing you can really do it to try to anticipate problems (like tiredness/hunger/thirst) as best as you can but realize that your dd is only 4, she is still learning and there will be times when she just won't be able to deal with something very well and you have to give her a "time out" to compose herself.

When my dd does this I try not to make a big deal out of it and usually if I just hold her she calms down and I can get her to tell me if she's hungry/tired/etc. and if we have to leave the store or whatever that's ok too (my dd is almost 2.5). I don't know how well that would work for a 4-yr old since I don't have one....they still cuddle at that age, right??

[Spanish Rose]

Originally Posted by mlleoiseau

that happen around other people.

Dd is four. She is mostly a gentle, cooperative, happy child. But she has meltdowns that I find hard to deal with. Mostly I try to let her know it's okay to be upset, but it's not okay to throw toys, etc. I will often go lay down on the bed with her and be with her til she feels better. Mostly they happen when she's tired or hungry, and I can always empathize with her.

What specifically triggers the meltdowns? Not getting her way? A boundary being set? Being told to wait? Having her personal space invaded? Being scared?

But I don't know how to help her find ways of expressing herself other than crying and throwing toys. And I don't know how to deal with her when her meltdowns happen at inconvenient times (like out to eat or when company is over.)

I'm gonna steal an example from Kids, Parents, and Power Struggles.

Take a wineglass of vinegar. This is your child. Now throw a couple of teaspoons of baking soda into it. Those are your child's triggers. Notice what happens?

Now drop some cotton balls in. These are your child's coping skills. Notice what happens?

So, what are your child's coping skills? What soothes her or makes her feel better?

For my son, for example, it's playing xbox or building with legos. Maybe your daughter has a cuddly object that she likes to snuggle with. Maybe she likes to color, or listen to a story being read to her, or go for a walk, or play with clay, sand, or water, or take a bath. Whatever.

So. Find those things. And then, when she has a meltdown, give them to her. Plop her in front of the legos, or better yet, bring them to her. Start reading a story. Give her her blankie. Etc. Sometimes it may help to remove her from the situation. Sometimes that will only make things worse. It's different for every kid.

And then, when she's calmed down a bit, work on giving her words to deal with what happened. "Wow. You really wanted that cookie, didn't you? You didn't want to wait until dinner. You were really frustrated that you had to wait. You felt better when you held your blankie and drew me this picture. Want to tell me about the picture?" Talk about the picture "Next time you're frustrated, you don't have to cry. You can say "Mommy, I'm frustrated." And I'll help you. Okay?"

It's a long learning process. But it's like riding a bike. It hurts, it's frustrating, it doesn't seem worth it. But then you get it, and you reap the rewards, and you never forget.

For example, friends were over Tuesday with their almost 3 yo ds. He likes to run around in circles, throw toys and bang toys against the wall/floor/etc. He was hitting her butterfly net against the floor and it broke. She had a fit. He wanted to play with Mr Potato Head and accidentally tore the box. She had a fit. He wanted to play with her stroller, and she had a fit cause she didn't want him to. She got out her dog purse to play with and then had a fit because he wanted to play with it.

I ended up putting her in the bedroom by herself cause I didn't know what else to do. The friends who were over are spankers, and I know they were thinking she needed spanking.

Woah woah woah. Their child was destroying your child's possessions, and they think she needs spanking?

I think your child's actions, although unsophisticated, were perfectly justified. In that instance, I would have focused on addressing the problem and then, later, worked on helping her to use her words.

I'm kind of feeling like these meltdowns are out of my league entirely. I don't know how to deal with them constructively. I don't have good social skills, and I don't express my emotions well. Plus I'm dealing with some depression and irritability right now.

I know that when I'm having trouble with one of mine, I need to be reminded to pay extra attention to two things.

1. Take care of myself. Take time for me every day-- read a good book, go grocery shopping by myself, take a bubble bath, spend fifteen extra minutes on MDC...

2. Take care of the relationship. Spend time making sure that she feels loved. Make cookies together. Play a game that she wants for twenty minutes. Spend time connecting.

[LynnS6]

SpanishRose gave you some excellent advice - Kids, Parents & Power Struggles is one of my favorite books - and despite the title, it's a good GENERAL parenting book.

My only other suggestions would be:
1. Remember that you don't need to make her stop crying and you don't need to "fix it" for her. In fact, crying can be healthy. If you move from "I have to make it better" mode to "she's upset and my job is to help her deal", it's easier to remain calm, in my experience.

I find that simply describing what's happening and asking questions about what my kids might be feeling (are you angry? are you disappointed?) really helps, over the long term. (If you haven't read "How to Talk So Your Children will Listen....", I highly recommend it.)

Our 7 year, but not our 4 year old, is actually getting good at articulating what he's feeling, rather than just melting down. He'll now stand in front of me and yell "I am REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY mad at you!!!" (or he'll write me passes to "detention" in school.) This is particularly heartening to me, because he's always been a bit on the 'slow' side of being able to deal with emotions. But, it's taken YEARS of modeling, describing and helping him deal with his feelings to do this. I think we forget sometimes that it's a long learning process. Our 4 yo is still in the throw-herself-on-the-floor and scream stage. (She too throws things when she's mad.)

2. Meet these friends for OUTSIDE play dates. It sounds like having 2 kids confined (especially when one is an active, bang-the-toys type kid) is too hard. It sounds to me like your dd's behavior was understandable, given the situation. Sometimes changing the situation is the easiest solution.

[mlleoiseau]

Okay, so that probably wasn't the best example to use. I did totally understand dd being upset and crying. And my friend didn't make any comments about her needing to be spanked--I just figured she was probably thinking it. (I was raised with the whole "if you don't stop crying, I'll give you something to cry about mentality.")

I really haven't figured out anything that soothes dd. It seems like she has to cry and sometimes rage until she's all done and then she's fine. I did ask her yesterday at a calm time what makes her feel better when she's upset. She said her stuffed monkey does. That was a surprise to me because she never turns to a toy when upset. She's never really been attached to any of her stuffed animals.

Anyway, today started out with a meltdown. She wanted me to tie yarn on a mask so she could wear it. I punched holes in it to have a place to tie the yarn and she completely lost it. She didn't want holes punched in it. Then she wanted me to untie the yarn, and I couldn't so I cut it off. She didn't want the yarn cut. Complete meltdown. I know it was because she was hungry because she hadn't had breakfast. I tried to hold her and talk to her. She yelled repeatedly that she didn't want me to hold her and she didn't want to hear what I was going to tell her. Then I took her in the bedroom and laid with her on the bed. She yelled repeatedly that she didn't want to be on the bed. Then she got involved with burying me with the pillows and was fine and ready to eat breakfast.

That is usually what the meltdowns are like. Only sometimes they happen in public around friends/family. That is when I have trouble dealing with it.

Thanks for the ideas. I will definitely look at those two books. And I will spend more time trying to figure out things that soothe her.

It seems like the meltdowns happen when she is either tired or hungry. It's usually triggered by her not getting her way or something happening in a way that she did not envision.

I've tried before talking to her at a calm time about what happened and usually she just starts getting upset again. I guess I'll keep trying with different words.

Thanks for the advice. And really, most of the time that the friends are over, she and the boy do play well together.

[mlleoiseau]

Oh, and I don't try to make her stop crying. I have always been very adamant about letting her express her emotions. I hate it when I'm upset and someone basically tells me I have no reason to be upset.