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just found a fully engorged tick on DD Update and a ? post #41

post #1 of 43
6/6/08 at 4:24pm
Thread Starter 
We're sending it in to be tested to see if it is actually carrying anything. Trying not to worry, as I know that chances are slim.

Any words of advice or bdtd?

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post #2 of 43
6/6/08 at 10:22pm
Hi-

You didn't say where you live, we live in NY where Lyme disease is much more common than in other places. I noticed by your name it says you live among the redwoods, are you on the west coast? I ask because although Lyme disease has spread over the entire country there are some places where you are just much less likely to get it and the pacific coast definitely qualifies.

My MIL has been diagnosed with Lyme disease twice and just a couple of weeks ago my Husband found a tick on himself so I've been doing some research recently. The single most comforting piece of information I've found is that a tick has to be feeding on you for at least 24 hours to transmit enough of the Lyme disease to cause illness. Some of the sources I found said, 24-36 or 24-48 hours. The point is that it takes a long time and if you have reason to believe that the tick was there for shorter than that period of time there is very little to worry about.

Other than that you just need to keep an eye on the area and see if any kind of a rash develops. It could take several weeks, and some people don't develop the rash but do start to develop symptoms of undefined illness. A lot of the problems associated with Lyme disease seem to be a result of the disease going unrecognized for a long time before treatment. That can happen if someone gets a tick and never realizes it, the tick takes it's fill and detaches on its own and then weeks later the person gets sick and figures its just a cold. That can lead to the chronic condition that seems to cause many other problems. If you are aware of the tick and are watching for symptoms than should anything arise you will be informed and able to nip it in the bud.

Lyme disease is one of those things that has a lot of controversy around it and the lack of clear cut information makes it seem scarier, to me anyway. But there is every reason to think that appropriate and prompt treatment can lead to full recovery.

I'm trying to say, it'll be ok. Probably she won't have lyme disease. Even if she did, you can handle it.

I know you'll worry anyway, I know I would. But I'm going to say it again anyway. Don't worry about it, it'll be ok.
post #3 of 43
6/6/08 at 10:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Chris View Post
Hi-

You didn't say where you live, we live in NY where Lyme disease is much more common than in other places. I noticed by your name it says you live among the redwoods, are you on the west coast? I ask because although Lyme disease has spread over the entire country there are some places where you are just much less likely to get it and the pacific coast definitely qualifies.

My MIL has been diagnosed with Lyme disease twice and just a couple of weeks ago my Husband found a tick on himself so I've been doing some research recently. The single most comforting piece of information I've found is that a tick has to be feeding on you for at least 24 hours to transmit enough of the Lyme disease to cause illness. Some of the sources I found said, 24-36 or 24-48 hours. The point is that it takes a long time and if you have reason to believe that the tick was there for shorter than that period of time there is very little to worry about.

Other than that you just need to keep an eye on the area and see if any kind of a rash develops. It could take several weeks, and some people don't develop the rash but do start to develop symptoms of undefined illness. A lot of the problems associated with Lyme disease seem to be a result of the disease going unrecognized for a long time before treatment. That can happen if someone gets a tick and never realizes it, the tick takes it's fill and detaches on its own and then weeks later the person gets sick and figures its just a cold. That can lead to the chronic condition that seems to cause many other problems. If you are aware of the tick and are watching for symptoms than should anything arise you will be informed and able to nip it in the bud.

Lyme disease is one of those things that has a lot of controversy around it and the lack of clear cut information makes it seem scarier, to me anyway. But there is every reason to think that appropriate and prompt treatment can lead to full recovery.

I'm trying to say, it'll be ok. Probably she won't have lyme disease. Even if she did, you can handle it.

I know you'll worry anyway, I know I would. But I'm going to say it again anyway. Don't worry about it, it'll be ok.
I'm not trying to be snarky, but this is all just bad information.

It is common on the west coast - particularly the pacific NW. The ticks are different & the co-infections are different, but it's there & it's a big problem. Yes, it's worse on the east coast - I live in 1 mile over the line from Chester County, PA - one of the most endemic areas in the country.

The transmission time is also dead wrong - the CDC claims this, but they also claim that only 3 weeks of abx is needed for *all* cases of Lyme with the same standard dose no matter what the size of the patient. Newer research shows that Lyme & co-infections can be passed in as little as two hours.

Symptoms can be as minor as floaters in your vision or mild fatigue or even tingling in the arms or legs - it would be especially hard to tell with a non verbal youngster.

Saving the tick & having it tested is the best thing you can do. Yea it's expensive, but IMO, it's worth the peace of mind & a heck of a lot less expensive than years & years of alternative treatments for relief of chronic disease.

Out of curiosity, which lab did you send it to? Was it alive? If I remember correctly, it needs to be alive, right?
post #4 of 43
6/7/08 at 8:57am
Slightly OT, but just wanted to add this to the transmission/diagnosis info out there...
We just found out that Dh and our 2 boys, 3 and 1, have the spirochetes that cause Lyme disease (we go to a ND). I don't have them. We've never found ticks on the boys but dh used to get them alot when he was a teen. Our ND told us (and I've confirmed this through research) that the spirochetes are in the same family as syphilis and can be transmitted sexually as well...so I apparently fought it off but not in time to prevent my guys getting it in utero...OR they "contracted" it at conception. I dunno, but it's all very bizarre.
From what I'm reading, diagnostic tests are not very accurate since the spirochetes often hide out in glands and muscle and more of us likely have it than no.
I know if the tick comes back neg., then all is fine. If not, you may want to seek out someone who REALLY knows there stuff when it comes to Lyme D. to get an accurate diagnosis and treatment.

Best of luck!

jiva
post #5 of 43
6/7/08 at 12:19pm
Quote:
We just found out that Dh and our 2 boys, 3 and 1, have the spirochetes that cause Lyme disease (we go to a ND)
How did he test them? Just curious. Also, is he treating them?

If it were me, I would run to the dr. & demand abx. The best chance for success is eearly, appropriate treatment. I hate abx but this is one time i wouldn't chance it. Tick testing takes a while.

My DD is on 1000mg amoxicillan for at least a month. She had a partially engorged tick on her & got a rash a few days later.

At the moment I am thinking I might have lyme from a tick that was only on a few hours. It's been a month & I just started to have vague symptoms. I'm thinking of insusting on abx. If your dr. insists on testing, have him use Igenex. Other labs aren't as accurate.
post #6 of 43
6/7/08 at 12:51pm
She used a VEGA Test...

http://longevityhealthcenter.com/hol...vices.php#vega

Yea, they're being treated (teasal root ext. and loads of homeopathics as indicated by the VEGA thingy), no antibiotics though. We go back in 3 months for follow-up.
They treat Lyme by helping the body kill the spirochete and then getting the die-off out of the tissue...which is apparently the tricky part...

jiva
post #7 of 43
6/7/08 at 1:11pm
did they have symptoms?
post #8 of 43
6/7/08 at 2:04pm
Just some vague stuff...dh has frequent neck pain and is tired alot but assumed it was managing a restuarant, having 2 kids and being 31.
Both boys had been sick more than we usually are over the winter and would have these random symptomless fevers every few weeks. And the biggie, and the reason I took them to the ND, was that ds1 had gotten "lazy"...for the past six months he increasingly wanted to stay inside because the sun was "too bright" or he was just too tired to play...and sometimes soft music would "hurt his ears". It just didn't feel right to me anymore.

I know it sounds crazy to some, but it seems to fit. They all seem to be responding to the homeopathics because they have more symptoms every 3 days or so and then are significantly better, then they have symptoms, then they're better, and so on...I hope they fully kick this with this treatment...

jiva
post #9 of 43
6/7/08 at 5:10pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Chris View Post
Hi-

You didn't say where you live, we live in NY where Lyme disease is much more common than in other places. I noticed by your name it says you live among the redwoods, are you on the west coast?
We are on the coast of central California (Santa Cruz area.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metasequoia View Post
Out of curiosity, which lab did you send it to? Was it alive? If I remember correctly, it needs to be alive, right?
We sent it to the neighboring county's public health lab, which is where our county recommends they get sent. Yes, it was alive.

I don't know anything about the testing; I wonder if there might have been a better place to have sent it?
post #10 of 43
6/7/08 at 5:42pm
Just as an fyi, almost every tick fact sheet I've encountered tells ya to kill the tick (and then they bring up testing as an opton after saying that, but don't say the tick has to be alive for that).

I don't have our tick to send out (it wasn't a deer tick, so I flushed), just wanted to mention since I've been researching.... I bet some labs need them alive-- others, well if they are alive then the lab can take care of it, so I guess the best bet would be to keep the tick alive and make sure she doesn't escape.

Jessica
post #11 of 43
6/7/08 at 5:51pm
Hmmm, just found this on the CDC page:

Quote:
Testing Ticks

Patients who have removed a tick often wonder if they should have it tested. In general, the identification and testing of individual ticks is not useful for deciding if a person should get antibiotics following a tick bite. Nevertheless, some state or local health departments offer tick identification and testing as a community service or for research purposes.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme..._diagnosis.htm
Why?
(I underlined the sentence above)
Jessica
post #12 of 43
6/7/08 at 10:16pm
Acupuncturemama-
I just wanted to clarify, I never meant to suggest that there was no such thing as lyme disease on the west coast, only that it is less common there than on the east coast. I used to live in Washington state and the information I just looked up said that there are between 8 and 15 cases a year in that state. You seemed to be asking for reassurance and I thought that might be helpful. I went by what I considered to be the most reliable information I could gather. This is a topic on which informed and intelligent people could be expected to differ, making your concern understandable and treatment baffling. I hope you get reassuring news from your testing and all this turns out to be strictly academic.

Good luck
post #13 of 43
6/8/08 at 8:54am
Quote:
n general, the identification and testing of individual ticks is not useful for deciding if a person should get antibiotics following a tick bite.
I think there might be a couple of reasons - if it's positive you don't know if it tranassmitted. Also, if the tick is engorged some places will do prophylactic abx regardless rather than waiting for test results. Early treatment is key. Also, are the tests 100%?
post #14 of 43
6/8/08 at 12:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessjgh1 View Post
Hmmm, just found this on the CDC page:
Testing Ticks

Quote:
Patients who have removed a tick often wonder if they should have it tested. In general, the identification and testing of individual ticks is not useful for deciding if a person should get antibiotics following a tick bite. Nevertheless, some state or local health departments offer tick identification and testing as a community service or for research purposes.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme..._diagnosis.htm
Why?
(I underlined the sentence above)
Jessica
I've pulled one tick off of Dd2, I keot it alove, stuck it in a small jar with a couple of damp leaves & poked a whole in the top. It needs to be kept damp to stay alive - and yes, it needs to be alive for testing, or the spirochetes will die.

It's a lot cheaper (in the long run) to just have the tick tested. Human testing is so innacurate, I'd absolutely test a tick. If it doesn't have any bacteria, I'd breathe a sigh of relief - if it did, then I'd probably test my child, watch for symptoms & possibly treat with abx for a month.

The CDC is overly casual about this, IMO.
post #15 of 43
6/8/08 at 4:35pm
Thread Starter 
So is the tick testing accurate?
post #16 of 43
6/8/08 at 7:46pm
I never send ticks for testing. It's pointless. If it carries Lyme, it still does not tell if it was transmitted.

If you see your doctor within 72 hours of the tick bite, you can take a one time dose of 200 mg prophylactic doxycycline. This prevents transmission of Lyme. Otherwise, really your only choice is to wait and see if she develops a rash or symptoms.
post #17 of 43
6/8/08 at 7:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by acupuncturemomma View Post
So is the tick testing accurate?
The testing of a tick for Lyme should be accurate. Probably the health department sends it to one of the major tick testing labs. There are a dozen + different diseases the tick can carry, so a negative Lyme test on the tick does not mean everything is OK.

If your child gets a bulls-eye rash, of course you need antibiotics ASAP.

The most important thing is frequent tick checks and immediate removal of any attached ticks.
post #18 of 43
6/9/08 at 10:35am
Lyme disease does exist in Santa Cruz County (check out www.lymenet.org -forums).

One big plus for Californians though is that if a tick bites the blue fence lizard the lyme disease is neutralized. Cool, eh? I don't know about the other tick borne diseases though. I only saw those lizards in the dry hills, so I'm not sure if that is a factor in the redwoods.

The prevalence is a lot lower than the East Coast though. Here's what the SC health dept says: http://www.santacruzhealth.org/phealth/cd/3lyme.htm

Out here, in the East, if I found a fully engorged deer tick, I would do the antibiotics. I'd probably do it in CA too, but I'm freaked out by the diseases now.
post #19 of 43
6/9/08 at 10:45am
dp had a tick a few weeks ago. they can detect lyme disease after 5 days, and thats what i recommended to him...however, he was freaked out and went to the dr. and go the abx. right away. it was only 2 doses, not 3 months like i have seen suggested elsewhere. if it were one of my children, i would have him/her tested before the abx,, but thats just me and its a parental decision.

dp's dr. didnt even tell him about the test (human or tick)...just dished out the abx.
post #20 of 43
6/9/08 at 10:51am
Heck, y'all, down here in my neck of the woods in NC we pull 'em off all summer long. They're like mosquitos. It would be ridiculous to either test each tick or go on antibiotics after each tick. I just keep an eye on the kids and if any fever develops we'll go to the dr. I will tell you how I learned to keep them little buggers. At dd1's school they tape them to an index card with the victim's name and the date. I file them in our file cabinet. Our dr said you could tape them to your calendar, but I'd rather not look at them all the time. We try do nightly tick checks as part of our night-time routine like teeth brushing. Other than that I just hope for the best. It's either that or keep the kids inside all the time and I don't think that's healthy either. I've lost track of how many we've had so far this year, but I personally have probably had 5 or 6. The kids at least the same if not more. Not sure about DH. Dog has had several, too, including one fully engorged one that dropped off and then I stepped on it unawares. Bleah!
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Mothering › Mothering Discussion Forums › Health › Health and Healing › just found a fully engorged tick on DD Update and a ? post #41