just found a fully engorged tick on DD Update and a ? post #41 - Page 2

[PassionateWriter]

Originally Posted by beanma

Heck, y'all, down here in my neck of the woods in NC we pull 'em off all summer long. They're like mosquitos. It would be ridiculous to either test each tick or go on antibiotics after each tick. I just keep an eye on the kids and if any fever develops we'll go to the dr. I will tell you how I learned to keep them little buggers. At dd1's school they tape them to an index card with the victim's name and the date. I file them in our file cabinet. Our dr said you could tape them to your calendar, but I'd rather not look at them all the time. We try do nightly tick checks as part of our night-time routine like teeth brushing. Other than that I just hope for the best. It's either that or keep the kids inside all the time and I don't think that's healthy either. I've lost track of how many we've had so far this year, but I personally have probably had 5 or 6. The kids at least the same if not more. Not sure about DH. Dog has had several, too, including one fully engorged one that dropped off and then I stepped on it unawares. Bleah!

thats how we used to be when we were little kids too..i grew up in NC and there were ticks all over the place..no one ever freaked out about this so much but it was a nightly "chore" (to check).

[almama]

There are places on the East coast (esp. CT, RI and MA coasts) where the prevalence of Lyme Disease is thought to be 100% (basically every tick they check has it), so it is a different beast than a 5% prevalence, or 0% like when we were little.

An engorged tick has been feeding a while, has had time to spit out his guts, and the kid is at risk in high prevalence areas. My son had a tick attach that was on for less than 6 hrs so we didn't do anything but watch him.

[Metasequoia]

Originally Posted by PassionateWriter

dp had a tick a few weeks ago. they can detect lyme disease after 5 days, and thats what i recommended to him...however, he was freaked out and went to the dr. and go the abx. right away. it was only 2 doses, not 3 months like i have seen suggested elsewhere. if it were one of my children, i would have him/her tested before the abx,, but thats just me and its a parental decision.

dp's dr. didnt even tell him about the test (human or tick)...just dished out the abx.

Why bother testing if the tests are notoriously unreliable? Lyme should be diagnosed clinically.

Originally Posted by beanma

Heck, y'all, down here in my neck of the woods in NC we pull 'em off all summer long. They're like mosquitos. It would be ridiculous to either test each tick or go on antibiotics after each tick. I just keep an eye on the kids and if any fever develops we'll go to the dr. I will tell you how I learned to keep them little buggers. At dd1's school they tape them to an index card with the victim's name and the date. I file them in our file cabinet. Our dr said you could tape them to your calendar, but I'd rather not look at them all the time. We try do nightly tick checks as part of our night-time routine like teeth brushing. Other than that I just hope for the best. It's either that or keep the kids inside all the time and I don't think that's healthy either. I've lost track of how many we've had so far this year, but I personally have probably had 5 or 6. The kids at least the same if not more. Not sure about DH. Dog has had several, too, including one fully engorged one that dropped off and then I stepped on it unawares. Bleah!

Depends on where you live. If didn't live in an endemic area, I wouldn't be so freaked out either.

Are you talking wood (dog) ticks or deer ticks?

Originally Posted by almama

There are places on the East coast (esp. CT, RI and MA coasts) where the prevalence of Lyme Disease is thought to be 100% (basically every tick they check has it), so it is a different beast than a 5% prevalence, or 0% like when we were little.

Add Chester County, PA to that list. It's enough to make me want to relocate.

[beanma]

I'm talking dog ticks, lonestar ticks, deer ticks, probably more I don't know the name of. We have Lyme down here, too, although the drs won't always recognize it and Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. I don't hear about a tremendous amount of cases of either, but I know of two cases of Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever in the last week and know of several cases of Lyme over the past several years, but not all of those were from local ticks. At least two were, though. It's not that I'm not worried. I actually find it fairly terrifying, but I don't know what else to do except nightly tick checks and hope for the best. I mean I could keep the kids indoors or insist that they only play in "safe" areas or slather them in DEET, but I worry about the long term implications of all those strategies, too. We all do our best...

[PassionateWriter]

Originally Posted by Metasequoia

Why bother testing if the tests are notoriously unreliable? Lyme should be diagnosed clinically.

he went in and was automatically put on abx. there was no "clinical" conclusion..just "ok, you have a tick bite, here is some abx". from what i have researched, most ppl have symptoms.

[almama]

I agree with Beanma not to avoid the outdoors. We tried being somewhat careful last summer and found LOTS of ticks. This summer we are out all the time and haven't found a one - although I know lots of other people who have.

Nightly tick checks are vital.

Lots of people with chronic Lyme never had any symptoms until years into the disease, basically when the damage was done. The "bulls-eye" pattern shows up in a reported 40-60% of cases. An early course of ABX (3 weeks) is pretty good at knocking it out entirely.

[PassionateWriter]

Originally Posted by almama

Lots of people with chronic Lyme never had any symptoms until years into the disease, basically when the damage was done. The "bulls-eye" pattern shows up in a reported 40-60% of cases. An early course of ABX (3 weeks) is pretty good at knocking it out entirely.

so did you have your kids take abx each time you found one on them? i keep hearing about the 3 weeks of abx but my dp was only given 2 pills. he took both the same day.

[chlobo]

so did you have your kids take abx each time you found one on them? i keep hearing about the 3 weeks of abx but my dp was only given 2 pills. he took both the same day.

There's lots of controversy in the Lyme community about what treatment is appropriate at diff. stages of the disease. There are even dr. who do not believe chronic lyme exists.

I would take at least 4 weeks abx once the rash develops & at least 3 weeks prophylactically upon finding a tick.

I truly believe that the cdc guidelines are way behind the 8 ball on this one & ppl are either being undertreated or missed altogether b/c of it. But that is just my opinion.

[almama]

I've never found an engorged tick, just crawling ones and one attached that I know was there for less than six hours. We're pretty rigorous about the nightly checks.

There is a huge rift between mainstream medicine and the lyme doctors on how to treat lyme disease. The latter say that it is a 3 week course, and the former believe a single day's dose will do. After my reading, I'm with the lyme docs. I have to wonder what good a single dose of ABX does. From what I know about disease resistance, the stronger bugs survive after the initial jolt of ABX and that is why you usually take a 10-14 day course for an illness. Lyme "hides" which is why it is 3 weeks vs. 14 days.

FWIW, I have no opinion on the chronic lyme treatment controversy (long term ABX treatment), just the initial exposure treatment.

[PassionateWriter]

i just ask b/c there is so many things in this post that are confusing (as i found in my research).

i agree 100% w/ treatment after a rash appears...however, if no rash appears (which someone quoted as only 60-70% of cases), then i just dont see how one could go about treatment w/o the test.

i think i have decided a prudent course of action for me and my kids is to be tested (human and tick) and if positive then consider treatment.

i just dont believe in treatment "just in case". i work too hard to build my children's immune system to have it destroyed by a "just in case" and thats what dp's dr's treatment was. a day after a bite. the tick was NOT there for 6-12 hours either.

[chlobo]

FWIW, I've read lyme can be transmitted in a short time if the tick has recently bitten something else. IN this case, the infected crap is already near the mouthparts ready to be injected into the next victim.

I understand why you'd want to wait, but the consequences of lyme are just so scary i'm not sure I'd wait for symptoms, especiallly if the tick were engorged or I lived in an endemic area (which I do).

ETA: Your dilemma just goes to show that more research needs to be done to find accurate tests for lyme transmission. Current tests just aren't accurate.

[Metasequoia]

Originally Posted by chlobo

There's lots of controversy in the Lyme community about what treatment is appropriate at diff. stages of the disease. There are even dr. who do not believe chronic lyme exists.

I would take at least 4 weeks abx once the rash develops & at least 3 weeks prophylactically upon finding a tick.

I truly believe that the cdc guidelines are way behind the 8 ball on this one & ppl are either being undertreated or missed altogether b/c of it. But that is just my opinion.

I agree with this - but I'd give my kids (or I'd take) 4 weeks of abx since the life cycle of the bacteria is 4 weeks. During this time, we wouldn't eat any sugar or any yeast & we'd take good probiotics. This is easily said because we're already sugar free & we don't eat bread or grains - except corn & rice.

Since I don't want to give my kids unnecessary abx, I'd rather be careful about where we play. We spend a good deal of time outdoors, but we don't trek through the woods (except in the winter) & we don't play in tall grass. We live in a *very* endemic area & it's a risk I'm just not willing to take.

Originally Posted by chlobo

FWIW, I've read lyme can be transmitted in a short time if the tick has recently bitten something else. IN this case, the infected crap is already near the mouthparts ready to be injected into the next victim.

I understand why you'd want to wait, but the consequences of lyme are just so scary i'm not sure I'd wait for symptoms, especiallly if the tick were engorged or I lived in an endemic area (which I do).

ETA: Your dilemma just goes to show that more research needs to be done to find accurate tests for lyme transmission. Current tests just aren't accurate.

I agree with this too, it's true that many, many people with chronic Lyme never had any definitive symptoms, maybe some headaches or neck aches here & there & all of a sudden, their immune systems are compromised for some other reason & BAM! the Lyme takes its opportunity. Young children have such a hard time describing their symptoms.

[acupuncturemomma]

Well, we should get the tick test results today. I don't know what to think! Even if it's negative, should I trust that?

I can't imagine giving DD weeks of prophylactic antibiotics. I still have guilt about the fact that she had unnecessary IV abx on her first night of life after we rushed to the hospital due to a breathing issue (which turned out to be benign; doc thought she could possibly have pneumonia.)


So, really, would you give prophylactic abx for the tick bite if you were on our situation??

[chlobo]

I guess it depends on how common lyme is in your area. In mine its so common that I would def. do it.

[PassionateWriter]

interesting book: http://www.quakerbooks.org/the_biogr...me_disease.php

[chlobo]

I'm just wondering how this turned out? Was the tick infected? How is your DD?

[Rebecca]

Originally Posted by jiva

Just some vague stuff...dh has frequent neck pain and is tired alot but assumed it was managing a restuarant, having 2 kids and being 31.
Both boys had been sick more than we usually are over the winter and would have these random symptomless fevers every few weeks. And the biggie, and the reason I took them to the ND, was that ds1 had gotten "lazy"...for the past six months he increasingly wanted to stay inside because the sun was "too bright" or he was just too tired to play...and sometimes soft music would "hurt his ears". It just didn't feel right to me anymore.

I know it sounds crazy to some, but it seems to fit. They all seem to be responding to the homeopathics because they have more symptoms every 3 days or so and then are significantly better, then they have symptoms, then they're better, and so on...I hope they fully kick this with this treatment...

jiva

Many of those are the symptoms my then 5 y/o had before he was dx. We never saw a rash or associated any cold/fever type symptoms. In Jan of a year ago he had joint pain serious enough that he couldn't climb into his chair or lift his arm to get dressed. It happened suddenly, but he'd been 'lazy' for a while. I really thought he was going through a bout of not wanting to play, but it was the lyme making hiim so incredibly tired. We did a month of amoxycillin for him and he seems fine now.

[JamesMama]

:

I had a large bulzeye looking tick bite on my leg earlier. I saw a dr quickly and was put on a long, high dose of antibiotics...as well as tested, of course since I was tested within the first 4 or 5 days after the bite it came back negative...I finished out the course of antibiotics anyway...it has been just over 3 weeks and so far so good...

From what i read that is your safest course of anction. A long running (2-3 weeks) high dose of antibiotics (I was on 500mg 3 times a day) from the get go. It kills the lyme before it has a chance to do any damage.

[Metasequoia]

Originally Posted by JamesMama

From what i read that is your safest course of anction. A long running (2-3 weeks) high dose of antibiotics (I was on 500mg 3 times a day) from the get go. It kills the lyme before it has a chance to do any damage.

I'd do a 4 week course instead since the Lyme bacteria's life cycle is 4 weeks.

[acupuncturemomma]

Originally Posted by chlobo

I'm just wondering how this turned out? Was the tick infected? How is your DD?

Well, I missed the lab's cutoff for the tick testing; they only do it on Tuesdays and the tick has to arrive before noon...ours arrived that afternoon, so we have to wait until next Tuesday.

No rash or any other symptoms so far for DD. Although she's 21 months, so not so verbal, and also teething and just getting over a head cold. So, I don't know! I'm not comfortable giving her prophylactic antibiotics since the incidence in our area is relatively low.