What do you think about America???? - Page 3

[untomySelf]

Our way is like that of a young and cocky adolescent full of bravado...the rest of the world patiently awaits our culture's maturation. I daresay that when that maturation is complete there will be much of a destructive, manipulative, negative nature commited in immaturity that will require humble apology and restitution.

Joyce I applaud you and your post.

I cannot see the bravado and hubris on its knees owning its shadow though...I would love to see this in my lifetime

I enjoyed your post very much

[El Casey S]

I wrote something on behalf of my DH on the wrong thread. :

Here it is:
BTW - Dh asked me to write, "The US is a great place if you're rich!"

[Ilaria]

I can't add much more to what has already been said so well, by many...

I just wanted to add my Italian perspective about people hating America before Bush and during the Clinton years. Not at all, not in Italy! Italians thought Clinton was great, they smiled at his indiscretions, but we don't care much about politicians' personal lives, it's more what they get accomplished. Now, they LAUGH at BUsh, at his blatant ignorance and at his lack of diplomacy skills, at his warmongering and the fact that he wasn't even elected...in the self-proclaimed 'leader of the free world' :

My husband is American, he loves his country and we do have a great life here (but, we have money) but he hopes one day we can go to Italy to raise our kids and go to school.

We will miss all the space here but we'll have every single 'freedom' Americans have here PLUS many more! No violence in public schools, great education and I can't wait to get 5 weeks a year paid vacation and a 2 year maternity leave to be with my kids. Now, THAT's freedom! (or some call it the 'evils of socialism'... BTW, in Europe, most countries are a mix of socialism and capitalism, something the avg. AMerican is not aware of- it's not an all or nothing kinda thing)

[El Casey S]

Originally posted by Ilaria
Now, they LAUGH at BUsh, at his blatant ignorance and at his lack of diplomacy skills,

They must be having a ball with Berlusconi!!

[Ilaria]

A blast is right! You should hear all the jokes about when they supposedly talked on the phone: the battle of the wits! :LOL

[applejuice]

Three reasons not to change the U.S. Constitution:

1. Napoleon, a Corsican who became head of France;

2. Stalin, a Georgian who became head of the USSR;

3. Hitler, an Austrian who became head of Germany.

Arnie is Austrian. If he wants to head a country, he should go back to Austria; they deserve him.

[burritomama]

Just had to add this: the cover of our local newsweekly this week: big headshot of Arnold looking blearily trimumphant and the headline: "California, show me your t*ts!"

Straight talking man indeed.

Of course, the newsweekly spelled it out.

[Marg of Arabia]

dup

[Marg of Arabia]

Well, I predict that Arnold will fail as a politician. But, Americans don't really care that much. He will still have the peoples support. Why? because they care more about "the image". This is the sad state of affairs in this country I am living in

[untomySelf]

Ah no worries Marg, come on over for a cuppa and we can discuss the insanity of T3 together. Its spring here at last and the rosella's are singing outside my window. Ill make you a home made aussie sausage roll and we can drink dandelion tea

(Did you know the postmen/women actually do their rounds by motorcycle here , theres some tricia for you)

[Marg of Arabia]

I would love to join you! Thanks for the invite.

I had a very close friend in Saudi from Northern Ireland who recently moved to the gold coast. If only we had the money to get us over to Oz!!! I wish!!!

[Britishmum]

"Our way is like that of a young and cocky adolescent full of bravado...the rest of the world patiently awaits our culture's maturation. I daresay that when that maturation is complete there will be much of a destructive, manipulative, negative nature commited in immaturity that will require humble apology and restitution."

How true.

NM I'm always confused by the statements, popular by talk show hosts in this country, about the ills of Europe due to socialism. :

Wasn't your last president a liberal? Wasn't Thatcher a raving conservative?

This seems to just be a popular hogwash by the conservative press who want to sing the USA's praises whilst denegrating the rest of the world. I hear every social ill and catastrophe in Europe blamed on socialism. It is such a nonsense, and totally inaccurate, but sadly believed by the majority of Americans.

[Ilaria]

popular hogwash by the conservative press who want to sing the USA's praises whilst denegrating the rest of the world. I hear every social ill and catastrophe in Europe blamed on socialism. It is such a nonsense, and totally inaccurate, but sadly believed by the majority of Americans.

ITA! Once again, I think it's due to ignorance...most Americans only have a vague idea of what Communism and Socialism are and how they work in modern Europe. To them it's either Socialist or Capitalist, all or nothing, while the 2 can coexist and work fairly well...
Another thing that boggles my mind is when Americans go on about being able to start and own a business, as if it is some sort of characteristic to the USA!?: My dad opened and has owned his own business for 25 years now, in Italy!

[mamabutterfly]

Originally posted by Hilary


the rest of the world has been waiting for the USA to grow up, since the Treaty of Versailles according to my Dad

ITA, Hilary. Your Dad sounds great.

Problem is, does the world have long enough to wait for this maturation? How much havoc on the earth, its resources, native peoples, animal species, human health, other cultural traditions, in the meantime? Sigh.

Ilaria I know just what you mean about that misperception, too. Very frustrating. :

BTW, I have my own long list of things I love about this country, its people, even some founding values, but *too much* being done 'in our name' contradicts all this goodness, sadly.

mamabutterfly

[ladylee]

What do you think about America????

Without editing myself & off the top of my head-I don't think much of America, and have felt this way for as long as I can remember. I've lived in many different regions around the country and have never felt I belonged here. The only time I truly felt at home was living in NYC, because of the diversity of cultures.

From high school on I was around people from all different countries-European, South American, Middle Eastern, etc. I was curious about their countries, their cultures and way of life. I remember being amazed that (most of) the US students didn't seem to be particularly curious about anything beyond their own experience. I still encounter people like that 20 years later-I wonder how much things have changed in our more "global" existence.

That's what I don't like about America-its myopic view of the world.

I think America needs to stop talking and listen more--our way of life is not THE way of life and it's foolish and dangerous to keep these outdated povs. When out of the country, I'm proud when people don't take me for being an American. That's a pretty sad statement.

I just read what someone above said about our culture being immature--I also feel this in an adverse way. I don't sense any hugely sacred or historic creative energy here that will even be remotely close to that in other countries in a few hundred years, when our culture "matures."

[nudespirit]

The US, it's shame and the UN

I'm not so sure that anyone can say that the world looked as bad at us now, as three years ago. The Human Rights Convention/Committee of the UN actually booted out the U.S. after Bush became president because of his tactics, his demanding nature, and his egotism. To my knowledge, the U.N. has never separated/kicked out the U.S in regards to anything until this. That is HUGE.
I'm proud to be an American, but I'm also ashamed to be an American right now. Our voices weren't heard this last election, it was stolen. And now with the recall in California, it seems that there is no point in voting, because if the rich don't like the person elected, they'll just pool out money, and push for a recall. It isn't just. If the people vote, that should be the end of it.
And, Bush is asking for billions of dollars for Iraq and a teeny tiny bit of that for Afghanistan, when he's absolutely refused to help our state governments that are in serious debt and failing.
And what of Afghanistan and Iraq? He finally admitted that Iraq (ie Saddam Hussein) had nothing to do with 9/11, he has yet to come forward and finally admit that they had no ties to Al Qaeda even though the CIA and many other agencies have been saying this all along.
And Afghanistan? On the news this evening Osama and his son Saad were seen together in Sudan, and he is responsible for 9/11.... we took everything we had and moved our attention to Iraq, a country that was under control and is now massacring each other, our own service members, looting and rampantly raping the women and children that are in sight. Women in Iraq have made statements saying they felt safer under Saddam's rule than they do now. And, if things are to get better, the U.S. can never leave. Which means more of our loved ones dying over there to try to regain some sense of control.
And what of that? Promised to several Iraqi's that were brought in to help build a government are being denied the very right to make any decision. They're left out of the loop and so feel helpless on helping their own people with governing decisions.
Meanwhile, Afghanistan has been left a mess, rebuilding is little and people are starving and dying every day. And, according to the news, Al Qaeda has moved right back in and will probably regain control.
Someday, I hope that Americans wake up and realize that they have to make decisions for themselves with valid information, and not just believe everything that is told to them by government officials. And in that, our news has to get better. I've had to read news from other countries to get more information as to what is going on around the world.

[Marg of Arabia]

And now with the recall in California, it seems that there is no point in voting, because if the rich don't like the person elected, they'll just pool out money, and push for a recall.

Amen! Rev. Kimberly!!!!!!!!! I feel about as hopeless as you do!!

What is going on in this country??

Why can't we grow up??

Why are we so controlled by the media??

I found myself humming a jingle I heard on the radio all day yesterday. It seemed to have buried itself in my brain like a memory chip. It was a commercial for a car dealership. These brainwashing techniques seem to work in advertising.


I sometimes imagine a secret department in our government that is constantly working on brainwashing the American public into believing any lie told to them. This dept. advises Bush on his speech giving. Teaching him the techniques we are unaware of. Teaching Bush and Co. how to plant lies in American people's heads. You know, where they just repeat a lie at least 20 times per day until the American public is brainwashed much the same way that I have been brainwashed by that damned car commercial!!!

marg

[Aquaduct]

You're not imagining things Marg. It really is true. As Noam Chomsky has documented so eloquently and thoroughly in his many books , declassified State Dept. papers, and quotes from influential planners and advisors like George MacKennan reveal they are only too aware that to get the population on their side for invasions, imperialistic adventures, economic measures that benefit the rich to the detriment of everyone else, they need to shape their thinking, create "necessary illusions" etc.

The weasel words are thought up by clever PR trained consultants, and other figures from the intellectual classes who are part of the invisible power structure behind "the president". Weasel words like..."anti-American", "collateral damage", "plausible denial" come to mind.

There's no special dept. though. They don't need one for that. Why when there is a revolving door between Wall Street and the White House. The President doesn't need to select his cabinet of advisors and policy-makers from elected representatives...he and his cronies only have to cherry-pick from the Corporate world which they come from.

I think the right word for the US governmental regime would be plutocracy.....rule by the rich and powerful.


As a non-American, I can say that yes, there is a certain derision in my country for US actions by intelligent educated people, but also a lot of misplaced respect and admiration.

Some people will always look up to and worship power.

But I would like to say this. The US govt. is not the American people. Many who hate US imperialism, realise there are loads of good American people , who may oppose US imperialism, may be ignorant etc.

As Chomsky points out no State Govt. is a moral agent. They act in the interests of internal elites. The New Zealand Govt. if we had the military arsenal of the US, and pop. would be just as bad, imo.

Many Americans seem to really care about the wrongs that US imperialism gets up to. I respect that.

[bayviewbill33]

I am proud to be an American

I have never been ashamed of being an American. I think it is facinating how people who live in America can degrade her and hate her. They are protected by the first Amendment. I dare any of you to go to China and speak out against them or any number of countries. I did not see any protestors sitting in the streets of Bagdad for Saddam to comply with the U.N. resolutions or the inspectors. Why? Because they would be tortured and killed. In America we have the right to peacefully assemble.

America is great. America has been looked down upon for ages so get over it. You can never please everyone. We do a lot of great things. We are a great nation. Look around the world and who has a major influence? France? Germany? Russia? Iraq? Israel? Nope. The one and almost only USA. Hmmm, I seem to remember Levis and rock music were huge black market items in the USSR. Not one shot was fired to bring down the USSR - freedom and capitalism did and there self destructive government as well. People have yearned for our freedom and our lifestyle for a long time. Why have so many immigrants come here and continue to come here? Because America is so evil and awful? Who ever belives this is factually ignorant. Mexicans who walk down the middle of I-5 in California risk there lives (if you ever drove on I-5 you would understand) to come here. Why? Because they like dodging automobiles going 75mph? Call me crazy, but I do not think they want to play chicken with a car going that fast especially since they might have their children with them. Must be something more than that... I wonder what it is??? Freedom. The American dream - perhaps not for themselves but for their children.

We are not a perfect nation. We have flaws. If anyone hates living here so much, America does not have any laws stopping you to leave. I would not want you to leave. Why? If you are capable of constructive critism, your opposition of the way we operate in America needs to be heard (it is also protected). It is how we grow as a nation. You can complain all you want, but do not forget that there are many other people who would die trying to get here to enjoy that right. You think we have it bad here?

I love America and would die for her and her freedoms and her way of living. I want my children to grow up here and nowhere else. I will instill in them how great this nation is despite her having flaws and making mistakes along the way. I want them to travel the world to see how blessed they are to be an American. If my 2 year old son was 18 right now and decided to pass on college and join the military to fight in Iraq or Afghanistan, I would beam with pride. If he were to die fighting, I would be thankful for his sacrifice to keep his countrymen and women free.

[loftmama]

what fun to see this thread revived.

did reese every say what country she was referring to or from what experience she was drawing from that indicated the U.S. was unpopular during the Clinton years?

i was really surprised that she thought so. from my personal experience, the Clintons were VERY popular - so much so that everyone seemed to be naming their babies either Bill, Will, William or Hilary. We thought it was quite amusing and were glad that we were from a country so well respected!

unfortunately, that seems to have changed during the bush administration.