S/O--is okay to lie?

[angie7]

Is it okay to lie to an ER doc about your child's vax status. For instance, if you say "yes they are up to date" and it turns out it is WC or some other VPD, wouldnt they check with your regular doc and put 2 and 2 together and realize that they arent vaxed and call CPS for lying and medical neglect?

I have often thought about lying (never been to the ER, yet) so I was just curious as to what your opinions are.

[Green Phoenix]

I never used to -- but now I do. It makes my life easier, and it doesn't affect their care, IMO.

[PassionateWriter]

i dont have a problem lying to medical doctors. they lie all the time to parents about vaccinations.

you cant get arrested for lying to a dr...its not a crime or something....and its not medical neglect to not vaccinate....but i have heard enough horror ER stories to know that if i ever end up there w/ my completely non vaxed kids, i will simply state "they are up to date". and thats all i will say. its actually true..they are up to date on my schedule..which is none.

[Purple Cat]

I've been asked on every ER visit if the twins are up-to-date. I very authoritatively say, "No. We have religious objections" or "No. We haven't vaccinated for religious reasons." They have never flinched and simply noted religious objection on the intake form.

I'd be interested in hearing what others experiences have been.

Even at public schools, I simply say "we haven't vaccinated for religious reasons" without any difficulties. I do say it authoritatively, non-defensively.

Purple Cat

[uptowngirl]

Originally Posted by PassionateWriter

i dont have a problem lying to medical doctors. they lie all the time to parents about vaccinations.

you cant get arrested for lying to a dr...its not a crime or something....and its not medical neglect to not vaccinate....but i have heard enough horror ER stories to know that if i ever end up there w/ my completely non vaxed kids, i will simply state "they are up to date". and thats all i will say. its actually true..they are up to date on my schedule..which is none.

I love this response! My next question to the doc would be, "are you?"

[CanidFL]

Originally Posted by Purple Cat

I've been asked on every ER visit if the twins are up-to-date. I very authoritatively say, "No. We have religious objections" or "No. We haven't vaccinated for religious reasons." They have never flinched and simply noted religious objection on the intake form.

I'd be interested in hearing what others experiences have been.

Even at public schools, I simply say "we haven't vaccinated for religious reasons" without any difficulties. I do say it authoritatively, non-defensively.

Purple Cat

This. We haven't been to the ER yet but this is our stance and approach. I don't want to lie to the docs if it could harm my son.

[Ophelia]

I would not, because if they assume you have gotten a pertussis vax, they may not check for pertussis. If they assume you have gotten a menengitis vax, they would not likely check for menengitis, and so on. This just happened recently in another thread, it sounded like the doc was not going to check for some things if the child had been vaccinated.

[Crazybean]

If I'm going for an illness that one know can figure out, I won't lie. If we are going to the ER for a broken bone or something else, I'll carefully omit some things without technically lying. I live in a very country, pro vax area and I don't want trouble if it's not necessary to know.

[thefragile7393]

Originally Posted by Crazybean

If I'm going for an illness that one know can figure out, I won't lie. If we are going to the ER for a broken bone or something else, I'll carefully omit some things without technically lying. I live in a very country, pro vax area and I don't want trouble if it's not necessary to know.

This. It's a sticky slope...who wants to lie? At the same time, who wants to be fighting over vaxes with a broken bone or a deep cut or whatever? Then, what if it is a VAD? Sometimes they aren't easy to diagnose on your own, but if you say they are up-to-date then they may not test for it. I don't have a one-size answer, it just depends on the situation.

[Nan'sMom]

Originally Posted by Ophelia

I would not, because if they assume you have gotten a pertussis vax, they may not check for pertussis. If they assume you have gotten a menengitis vax, they would not likely check for menengitis, and so on. This just happened recently in another thread, it sounded like the doc was not going to check for some things if the child had been vaccinated.

But since the docs know (or should know) that no vax is 100% (and some have pretty high failure rates) wouldn't they know to check for these things anyway?

[Funny Face]

We would say 'Yes, they are up to date' because they are up to date on our schedule of none, as pp said.

They will still check for the same things because most cases of these 'vaccine preventable illnesses' are actually among vaccinated children, not non-vaxed children.

[greenthumb3]

Originally Posted by Ophelia

I would not, because if they assume you have gotten a pertussis vax, they may not check for pertussis. If they assume you have gotten a menengitis vax, they would not likely check for menengitis, and so on. This just happened recently in another thread, it sounded like the doc was not going to check for some things if the child had been vaccinated.

We'd like to think, as moms, that doctors would check for illnesses, hmm? They see too many well children and trust vaccines too much to know the difference between the illnesses vaccines are supposed to prevent and whatever they'd like to think.

I have had experience with this, exactly, which was crazy-making. I took my sons, 5 and 3, into the doctor, with paroxysmal coughs with symptoms that looked just like whooping cough (pertussis) this spring, which is the season for pertussis. I told the doctor all about their symptoms, who looked them over, knew they were unvaccinated and didn't address my concerns about the pertussis.

A week later, my baby started having the same symptoms, and since I had done my research, I knew that there was a chance that if it was pertussis, a course of antibiotics at the beginning of symptoms could reduce the severity or duration of symptoms for him.

Of course, the doctor treated me like a mindless gnat/hysterical mother, and ignored me when I mentioned my concerns. Well, I asked for a culture to check for the illness anyway. Which he did, knowing full well (later we learned this in the hospital from the therapists who did my son's breathing treatments) that he needed to take the sputum sample with deeper suction, not just a swab. He was trying to pacify me. We went home without a prescription. My son ended up in the hospital with pneumonia as a complication about two weeks after that visit, of what the doctor NOW BELIEVES to be, pertussis. He decided to test him in the hospital, which was of course too late to get the proper results. This doctor completely discounted my ability to read and think and couldn't bring himself to listen to a mother who knows her children, and it cost us $30,000 and perhaps an illness my baby son could have avoided, the pneumonia. Which he kicked me out of his practice b/c he blamed me for not vaccinating my son.

Doctors simply think pertussis doesn't exist because there are vaccines. It doesn't matter whether your child is vaxed or not. Even if it's classic case of the illness, there is so much misdiagnosing, I am convinced of this from my experience.

[the_lissa]

I have never been asked in an ER or clinic about vaccinations, but I would not lie because I don't want vpds to be dismissed.

[MsLondon]

Originally Posted by Ophelia

I would not, because if they assume you have gotten a pertussis vax, they may not check for pertussis. If they assume you have gotten a menengitis vax, they would not likely check for menengitis, and so on. This just happened recently in another thread, it sounded like the doc was not going to check for some things if the child had been vaccinated.

Yes this was my response to this post initially but then I got to thinking on the flip side.....
Most doctors are so convinced that vaccinations are fool proof, what about vaxed kids who may come in with a vpd - would they dismiss the possibility that thay could have X simply because they were vaxed for it and 'couldnt possibly' have X disease() !! And then waste time looking for other things becuse they just cant accept that vaxes arent 100% effective!

Anyway, to the original question - yes I would tell him my non-vax status and I would also tell him, it was against my religious beliefs and that it was not up for discussion. Having said that though, I have never had to bring DD to the ER (Thank goodness) I mean when your little babe is sick do you really have the energy or the inclination to be arguing with doctors? so I can see why alot of parents would just say DC was vaxed just to save more stress and aggravation.

[4Blessings]

I would never lie about it. I'm proud of my well researched and thought-out decision.

I'm teaching my children that it's not ok to lie. What kind of example would I be?

[lachingona1]

Originally Posted by Proud2BeAnAmerican

I would never lie about it. I'm proud of my well researched and thought-out decision.

I'm teaching my children that it's not ok to lie. What kind of example would I be?

I agree...but I have never been in any situation with the ER or any doctors that push vaccines.

[rootzdawta]

Originally Posted by Crazybean

If I'm going for an illness that one know can figure out, I won't lie. If we are going to the ER for a broken bone or something else, I'll carefully omit some things without technically lying. I live in a very country, pro vax area and I don't want trouble if it's not necessary to know.

I agree.

DS broke his collar bone and we took him to the ER. I said he was up to date without batting an eye. For an illness I cannot identify, I would not lie but I would not be explaining either. We don't vax for religious reasons.

I don't want to teach my children to lie but I also want them to discern when it's smart not to divulge the whole truth. I've been in plenty of situations that it's wiser to stay mum or to give the answer they want to hear.

[Angela512]

I'm very upfront about not vaxing.

We took our son to the ER for a fever of 104.7 that would not break (after 2 days). We got the "lecture" from the very misinformed doctor that since he wasn't vaxed with HiB that he could now get meningitis. My husband said, "Oh, really? How many strains of bacteria can cause meningitis?" (silence) "How many strains does the vaccine 'protect' against?" (silence) "Until you can answer me intelligently about vaccines, don't lecture me about not getting them." (awkward silence and then gave us our discharge papers). I was so proud of him!!

I won't lie because I don't want anything to be over looked, but I also won't stand to be lectured to about a decision I've made.

[Gitti]

We would never go to the ER unless it is in a trauma situation and then their vax status wouldn't matter at which point we would say "we are all set".

If they would question it further I would remind them what we are here for and to please attend to that matter.

We have absolutely no fear of doctors or CPS.

[birthdancedoula]

What about lying to a dentist? We were just refused care for being honest about our kids' vax status at a pediatric dentist. Now I almost wished I would've checked the "vaxes up to date" box.