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Can someone explain Mary's place in Catholicism and other Churches? - Page 2

post #21 of 45
6/15/08 at 5:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
Scripture? How about commentary. I went to Catholic School for eight years and rarely read scripture; it was referred to, but we never read it for ourselves. More recently my two younger sons attended Catholic High Schools and never cracked a Bible.

A Cathechism yes. TExtbooks yes. Never a Bible.
That's very unfortunate. That doesn't mean that what StacyL said isn't true. Catholics may do a poor job (at times) at educating our youth on Scripture, and we may well rely too much upon textbooks and commentary. Food for thought. As an adult, I've certainly taken it upon myself to read Scripture and certainly I read it with my children.

Off topic of the thread, but I do think Catholic schools feel called upon to be available to all children and sometimes the religious aspect of the school gets a bit watered down, IMHO. But they usually always have a lovely statue of Mary somewhere.

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post #22 of 45
6/15/08 at 9:09pm
Duh, of course you're right about Anne/Hannah. I'm used to the variations of Mary, but I totally forgot about that one. Apologies!

Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
Scripture? How about commentary. I went to Catholic School for eight years and rarely read scripture; it was referred to, but we never read it for ourselves. More recently my two younger sons attended Catholic High Schools and never cracked a Bible.

A Cathechism yes. TExtbooks yes. Never a Bible.
I'm really not trying to be snarky, but just because you went to a "Catholic" school that never properly catechized you doesn't suddenly erase 2 thousand years of Christian tradition. It just doesn't prove anything other than what we already know- there are a lot of really bad Catholic schools out there. There are also a lot of really great ones.

The Assumption most certainly was not merely a "tale or rumor" and the EO and RCC will both outright reject that notion.

Quote:
It's always interesting to see the intermingling of beliefs/traditions and culture....but I think it is a stretch to say that the Church "decided" to replace goddess worship with Mary...
Yeah, exactly.




Quote:
The Church has always been known to incorporate local traditions as Christian symbols
This isn't unique to the RCC, it's something all people across time have done. That doesn't mean they were all just pulling things out of you know where.
post #23 of 45
6/15/08 at 9:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshoes View Post
That's very unfortunate. That doesn't mean that what StacyL said isn't true. Catholics may do a poor job (at times) at educating our youth on Scripture, and we may well rely too much upon textbooks and commentary. Food for thought. As an adult, I've certainly taken it upon myself to read Scripture and certainly I read it with my children.

Off topic of the thread, but I do think Catholic schools feel called upon to be available to all children and sometimes the religious aspect of the school gets a bit watered down, IMHO. But they usually always have a lovely statue of Mary somewhere.



We read Scripture daily, and my daughter's Catholic school did the same, even in Pre-K and Kindergarten.
post #24 of 45
6/15/08 at 11:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
Scripture? How about commentary. I went to Catholic School for eight years and rarely read scripture; it was referred to, but we never read it for ourselves. More recently my two younger sons attended Catholic High Schools and never cracked a Bible.

A Cathechism yes. TExtbooks yes. Never a Bible.
Wow, that is a bummer.

Unfortunately, a testament to the sad state of affairs in the Church in the 20th century.
post #25 of 45
6/15/08 at 11:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by StacyL View Post
Wow, that is a bummer.

Unfortunately, a testament to the sad state of affairs in the Church in the 20th century.
I went to Catholic school (8th grade through HS graduation) in the Archdiocese of Detroit from 1982-1987. I *think* we read the NT some in Confirmation classes (our 8th grade religion class), but that was IT.

Might have changed NOW, but seems to be pretty common from 20-25 years ago.
post #26 of 45
6/16/08 at 12:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tradd View Post
I went to Catholic school (8th grade through HS graduation) in the Archdiocese of Detroit from 1982-1987.


Where did you go? My brother went to Brother Rice for a year. My school used to swim at Mercy. My best friend went to Our Lady of Refuge and probably never cracked a Bible the entire time.
post #27 of 45
6/16/08 at 1:02am
I went to Catholic School K-12 and we studied the Bible a ton. I had a semester of New Testament and a semester of Old Testament my Freshman year in high school. And we used the Bible in all my other HS religion classes (morality, catholic social doctrine, apologetics, christian vocation, liturgy, church history) So i suppose it is all about where you go.
post #28 of 45
6/16/08 at 1:05am
http://www.protomartyr.org/mary.html

Here is a really great article on Mary from an Eastern orthodox perspective. The guy who wrote it is a convert who is now a priest. He is really good at communicating these sorts of things.

this is the most important differences between Catholic and Orthodox beliefs concerning Mary.

Quote:
There are two other beliefs . . . first is her bodily assumption into heaven, the other her immaculate conception. It was widely reported in the early Church that shortly after her death, Mary's body was assumed into heaven. In later centuries, the Roman Church ratified this belief as dogma, while the Eastern Church withheld such an official imprimatur. Most Christians agree that such a miracle is within the realm of firm biblical precedent, Enoch and Elijah being two examples. Further, there is no known record of any gravesite or relics of the Holy Virgin. . . . The Immaculate Conception of Mary is a doctrine unique to the modern Roman Church. In an effort to distance Mary (and protect Christ) from the stain of sin, the Immaculate Conception holds Mary was conceived and born without sin. The Orthodox Church firmly rejects this doctrine on the basis of both Scripture and tradition. Whatever other excesses may have cropped up in history, the Roman Church has never believed or officially taught that Mary was in any way coequal with the Trinity or was to be worshiped with the Trinity. Such allegations are sometimes set forth by critics of the Roman Church, but without basis in fact.
(cut to stay within the user agreement andbolding mine)


other fun stuff . . .

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Theotokos

The churches neglect of Mary really irritated me and was one of my first draws away from there. if nothing else I felt she deserved honor. we never even talked about her except at Christmas.
post #29 of 45
6/16/08 at 1:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by umsami View Post


Where did you go? My brother went to Brother Rice for a year. My school used to swim at Mercy. My best friend went to Our Lady of Refuge and probably never cracked a Bible the entire time.
Our Lady of Mt. Carmel in Wyandotte, Downriver area. I grew up in Trenton. Moved out of Detroit area 12 years ago to come to Chicago - best move I've ever made. I wanted to get away from auto industry (as well as the parents - another story!).
post #30 of 45
6/16/08 at 8:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by umsami View Post

From an Islamic standpoint, Mary rocks. She is the only woman to have a book of the Qur'an named after her. Maryam (Arabic version of Mary) is viewed as "the most saintly, pious, chaste, and virtuous woman ever and a highly respected figure in Islam."
This is very interesting, I didn't know this. Thanks for sharing.
post #31 of 45
6/16/08 at 9:28pm
This is off topic, but since we're going there...

We read the Bible all the time growing up, at home and during CCD. I didn't go to Catholic school, but I'm assuming they did as well.

***

I love Mary and after taking a combination Women's Studies and Religious Studies class, I came back to the Church because Mary, a WOMAN, is so important in the Church. I've always felt close to her.
post #32 of 45
6/16/08 at 10:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshoes View Post
This is very interesting, I didn't know this. Thanks for sharing.
I didn't know that about the Islamic view of Mary, either. Pretty cool!

For what it is worth, I went to Catholic school for 10 years, and probably wore my Bible out. We used it constantly, reading from it in class or doing assignments based on whatever place in the book we were in.

Quote:
I love Mary and after taking a combination Women's Studies and Religious Studies class, I came back to the Church because Mary, a WOMAN, is so important in the Church. I've always felt close to her.
That sounds like a GREAT class!!
post #33 of 45
6/16/08 at 11:12pm
I know that the EO reject the RCC doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, but they do believe in the Assumption, right? Just not to the point of having an official doctrine on it? (Please correct me if I'm wrong!)
post #34 of 45
6/17/08 at 8:43pm
Sorry for the guano, but:

Quote:
That sounds like a GREAT class!!
It was! It was taught by a rabbi, and it was the most wonderfullest (I know that's not a word, lol) class I've ever taken. It was specifically about women mystics, and we discussed every religion imaginable. Catholicism is very mystical, so we discussed that a lot. I've never been religious, but I kind of had an epiphany while in the class, like I signed up for it for a reason (besides needing it for graduation ).
post #35 of 45
6/17/08 at 11:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryBomb View Post
I know that the EO reject the RCC doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, but they do believe in the Assumption, right? Just not to the point of having an official doctrine on it? (Please correct me if I'm wrong!)
The feast known as the Assumption or Dormition refers to the death of the Mother of God. To that extent, obviously we (Orthodox) believe it took place.
It is also celebrated as a feast because of the belief that, as one of the holiest of people, Mary's death assumes her reception into the heights of Heaven. The Orthodox believe this as well.
The main distinction seems to be a different approach to "official doctrine." The Orthodox church is less inclined to make any kind of official pronouncement on doctrines. In the case of very long-standing beliefs like this one, it is seen as a pointless formality.

The difference of opinion about the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is one aspect of a disagreement about Mary's role in the conception and birth of Christ.
The RC church teaches that Mary was chosen before her birth to be the mother of Christ, and that she was made appropriate and worthy by being born free from all sin, even rendered unable to sin according to many RC theologians.
The Orthodox church believes that Mary was a good and devout woman, but no more free from sin than any other human being. She was asked to serve as mother of Christ, because of her holy life; she could have refused the honour and burden. Therefore, we feel that she was an active participant in our salvation, not just the vessel through which it was achieved.

This distinction can be seen in a tiny difference between the RC and the EO version of the Nicene Creed. The RC church, in its older Latin version, says that Christ was conceived "of the Holy Spirit, through the Virgin Mary." ("incarnátus est de Spíritu Sancto ex María Vírgine") The EO church says that Christ was conceived "of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary."
post #36 of 45
6/17/08 at 11:29pm
Does Islam have any sacred traditions or writings regarding Mary's childhood?
What else does Islam believe about Mary. i am really interested in hearing that perspective!
post #37 of 45
6/18/08 at 1:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
Does Islam have any sacred traditions or writings regarding Mary's childhood?
What else does Islam believe about Mary. i am really interested in hearing that perspective!
I'm not totally up-to-date on it... I'll try and read my Qur'an a little tonight and tomorrow and get back to you. :
post #38 of 45
6/20/08 at 9:52pm
Quote:
This distinction can be seen in a tiny difference between the RC and the EO version of the Nicene Creed. The RC church, in its older Latin version, says that Christ was conceived "of the Holy Spirit, through the Virgin Mary." ("incarnátus est de Spíritu Sancto ex María Vírgine") The EO church says that Christ was conceived "of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary."
I prefer your version! Although, I swear, I was always taught that Mary could've said no - free will and all that.

I'm sure Roman goddesses helped pave the way for the veneration of Mary within the Church - it only makes sense to me, personally - but it is surely her due!

Marian devotions are dear to me. Many times, when I want to walk away from the Church in disgust, there she is with open arms......
post #39 of 45
6/20/08 at 9:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzywan View Post
I prefer your version! Although, I swear, I was always taught that Mary could've said no - free will and all that.
You're correct, the Church teaches that Mary fully consented to carrying Christ. Though I suppose you could argue that since she was free of original sin she'd have no reason to refuse God in the first place.
post #40 of 45
6/23/08 at 10:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by daricsmami View Post
This is off topic, but since we're going there...

We read the Bible all the time growing up, at home and during CCD. I didn't go to Catholic school, but I'm assuming they did as well.

***

I love Mary and after taking a combination Women's Studies and Religious Studies class, I came back to the Church because Mary, a WOMAN, is so important in the Church. I've always felt close to her.
You may want to research the many Marianist communities and the world wide movement.
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Mothering › Mothering Discussion Forums › Personal Growth & Spirituality  › Spirituality › Religious Studies › Can someone explain Mary's place in Catholicism and other Churches?