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After the debate watch FRONTLINE!!

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
It will be excellent!!!

post #2 of 10
I've been looking forward to it all week....it is on in 2 hours. I'll report back.
post #3 of 10
I have to say I'm a bit surprised at the lack of discussion here lately about the debates, I posted threads after the last debate and this one and both got little discussion.

Surprising since there was so much discussion before, and now that we have a chance to actually hear what they have to say the silence is almost deafening. :
post #4 of 10

I missed the debates because I was at the market and doing errands this afternoon. However, I think in my own case I'm a bit fatigued by politics this fall because I've had my eye on california recall and it was a very frustrating experience to go through. I'm right now a bit crispy from it all. But I'm sure I'll get back on the horse in a bit, for right now, I need a moment.

Back to Frontline. Oh, my gawd! This adminsitration has the skills to run a carnival. Not a war and not build a nation.
post #5 of 10
I saw Frontline last night - it was excellent! It pretty much showed the holes in the Iraq situation. The INC (Iraqui National Congress) and its key guys, Chalabi and Kitiwa, and some of players in the Bush admin. were on it. Interestingly enough Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, et al declined the invitation to appear.

It showed that the State Dept. knew all along that Iraq was a sham and that political infighting pushed the war along.
post #6 of 10
Thread Starter 
I watched it on and off. My kids are all very demanding right before bedtime. I did tape it and I will watch it with my full attention later.

I felt so sick when they were showing our soldiers terrorizing and killing the innocent Iraqi men, women and children. My God the U.S. soldiers nearly shot the PBS camera man. I am sorry to say this but I really do think a lot of the men who are over there have no respect for the Iraqi people. They do not seem to care about killing them. As a matter of fact I think some of them seemed to enjoy it. They are young now, when they get older they are going to feel completely different about the murders they have committed. Yes, I said murders. Many of them have been over there randomly shooting anyone who moves in front of them. That includes women, children and babies. It is so disturbing......
post #7 of 10
Marg did you see where the US soldiers were yelling at the Iraqis who stole some wood and then crushed their car. It turned out the car belonged to the taxi driver and it was his entire livlihood.

Then there was the commotion as people were applying for jobs as police officers and the US soldiers were yelling at them to act "civilized" - meanwhile unemployment in Iraq is something like 50%.

It was scary to see the shortcomings of US preparedness.
post #8 of 10
Thread Starter 
Yes! I couldn't stand watching them shoot the hell out of the car first and then proceed to roll their tanks over it. That poor family. Punishing them for stealing wood by taking away their livlihood is the same sort of punishment Saddam or the Taliban would approve of.............
post #9 of 10
There have been HUGE amounts of discussion concerning the candidates for 2004, as well as the many issues leading up to, during and after this sham of a war.

Please understand that some of us have worked ourselves silly and continue to, often feeling as if to no avail, IRL (in addition to posting here and other place to get the info out there).

Sometimes we have to step back and take a breath, rest, relax and just try not to care so darn much or it will drive us crazy. Sometimes things are so distressing for me, personally, about the war, politics in our country, and the lack of care and tacit support for it all from most of the citizenry, that I just don't have the words anymore.

The fact is that folly of this war was brought out here and there and everywhere before it all went down. We tried to avoid the whole damn thing BEFORE anyone got hurt and in addition, we had lots of evidence pointing to the lies.

Sorry if there's an edge to my tone about this....I am very frustrated. We just buried a hometown soldier here about two weeks ago. I worked with his mother about 10 years ago. As I stood out on the sidewalk in front of our nice new arts and community center where his memorial was held, (ironically, across from the corner where I, my family, and neighbors, friends and concerned others stood protesting the rush to war), I felt like screaming that his, as well as ALL the tragic hundreds of woundings and deaths of our soldiers AND of thousands of Iraqis, DIDN'T EVER HAVE TO HAPPEN! But I bit my tongue, because then I would have been called "traitor" and "unpatiotic". It hurts very deeply.

My husband is a high school teacher and one of his former students, 19 years old and full of bravado, was a front page pic in the regional newspaper the other day. He was one of the reservists who is now called up to go...he is probably in Iraq or Kawait now. All his bravado will drown in a sea of reality, I imagine. War is as real as it gets...except for birthing. He will see more than he will ever want to remember because while Bush declared "mission accomplished", our boys and Iraqis too are dying daily still and will continue to till somehow we can bring them home. It hurts deeply to see this kid go; to see another reservist who is 59...59 (!!!!)- a guy who was going to RETIRE from his career AND from the the reserves this year...have to go. A senior citizen has been sent over there!!!!

It's so painful. So sometimes I don't jump on things right away here.

I am also VERY concerned with the possibility of Scharzenegger running with Bush in 2004...
(...makes sense to me...)
CA was just a test to see how revved up folks would get about Arnold (...Orrin Hatch wants to change some laws about citizenship and running for office btw) ...as well as a test for many other unknown scams including the Diebold e-voting machines about which I have posted a thread.

(I look at posting this way: I put it out there, and if no one cares...well, so be it!)

I am tired. I am sad. I am frustrated and I am sick of watching my country, like a really nice car, loaned to this spoiled frat boy (Bush), who, while having PROMISED TO BE RESPONSIBLE with it and drunk with power, drives it into the ditch at top speed- just for fun!- and leaves it for others to deal with and fix. He just walks away and won't get in any trouble and there will be NO consequences for taking trillions of dollars in surplus and tranforming it into BIG negative numbers.

OT: And NOW...Mr. Putin is talking about using Euro's for buying oil...something that Hilary from NZ posted about last Spring or Winter!(....nobody paid much mind to that either.) But that is another topic for another thread altogether.

I am disappointed about how our troops are being treated by their own gov't. There was a letter to the editor in our wee town paper from another hometown GI who is pleading for us to hear what is going on in over there...how they are being jerked around by the muckity-mucks, how they don't even have the supplies necessary to do the work (construction in this case) that they are assigned so they have to scrounge trash and garbage for it. Just WTF is Halliburton (substitute your favorite KKKorporate contractor) doing with all that $ (your and my tax dollars) in Iraq, if there are no supplies to build with, and our troops are the crews doing the work? And that doesn't even count the issues around food water and essentials for our troops. According to this soldier, troops are not even given orders half the time...they have to make up work to do on their own.

I am disappointed by the lack of concern for our vets coming back maimed and diseased from the toxcicity of the Iraqi environment from DU, for the silencing and hiding of the arrivals of our dead troops' remains coming home so it is out of sight/out of mind, keeping Joe and Joan SixPack blissfully ignorant.

I am sick at heart for those with certain fundamentalist Xtian faith sensibilities who are being used/manipulated by this administration...and by others... to support certain agendas...and those devoted and commited hearts and souls are BUYING IT!!!!

Oh yes...I am VERY disappointed in all this. So if you are really disappointed, with all due respect....understand that many more of us are too....with SO MANY things going on right now.

I totally understand how you feel and I sympathize.....but I also wanted to call to attention that sometimes we just have to step back so we can live and love; so we can continue to raise wee ones (mine are all grown, and see MY struggle for balance in all this! I don't know how activist mamas who have wee ones do it!).

Thank you for your patience, and for reading what I know may seem angry and pointed.... I know I am ranting...but I am pouring my heart out to my sisters in this thread because the big picture is SO big and there is so much to deal with. Even knowing that I never walk alone, that the God/s/ess/es walk with me....it can get very overwhelming...and so sometimes, I have to step back, as I am sure others must also.

It doesn't mean we don't care.

(Please understand, that while it appears that I am taking things personally, that really I am not...I am just sharing another view of the picture...from where I stand. Sorry if I have offended...I mean no harm in any way.)

Joyce in the mtns.
post #10 of 10
Thread Starter 
Thank you for your patience, and for reading what I know may seem angry and pointed.... I know I am ranting...but I am pouring my heart out to my sisters in this thread because the big picture is SO big and there is so much to deal with.

Thank you!! For an amazing post! It's mamas like you that help me in so many ways. I need to come here and read posts like yours. I hear nothing but lies and misinformed idiots! I really need this place...........
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