Thanks! All set. :) - Page 2

[UUMom]

Originally Posted by wallacesmum

Isn't that in that link, that the WHO needs to open clinics everywhere because the diagnoses are all wrong? I guess I need to read it again.

It just seems their resources are limited.

[Proverbs31]

Measles cases in the US for 2008:

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5718a5.htm
74 confirmed cases
14 hospitalizations
0 reported complications
0 deaths

MMR reactions reported to VAERS in 2008:
http://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/fin...adsheet+format
657 total adverse events reported
220 emergency room visits
20 hospitalizations
3 life-threatening reactions
1 death

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Originally Posted by Proverbs31

Measles cases in the US for 2008:

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5718a5.htm
74 confirmed cases
14 hospitalizations
0 reported complications
0 deaths

MMR reactions reported to VAERS in 2008:
http://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/fin...adsheet+format
657 total adverse events reported
220 emergency room visits
20 hospitalizations
3 life-threatening reactions
1 death

Wow seems to me that those stats clearly show me I made the right choce.

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by UUMom

It seems to be serious in the people who contract it. The Swiss findings (above) seem significant to me.

How is that? There was not one death, not one lasting complication.
Unlike RA which can make a life totally miserable.

Most of the kids in Switzerland who get measles is by parents' choice. They hold measles parties. Same in Austria and The Netherlands. Of course I am sure some of the kids who got measles did not attend a measles party.

I don't think anyone would consider it serious. Believe me, the papers over here in the EU would have had a field day, had that been the case.

[wallacesmum]

It doesn't matter WHY the numbers are wrong; the point is that they are wrong. The traditional diagnostic criteria for measles can give false positives, and I don't think most doctors order the bloodwork.

[KLM99]

My daughter isn't old enough to consider the MMR yet, but this old CDC article is really what tipped me onto the no-MMR side of the debate.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pic...1&blobtype=pdf

"For centuries the measles virus has maintained a remarkably stable ecological relationship with man. The clinical disease is a characteristic syndrome of notable constancy and only moderate severity. Complications are
infrequent, and, with adequate medical care, fatality is rare. Susceptibility to the disease after the waning of maternal immunity is universal; immunity following recovery is solid and lifelong in duration."

Granted, the article goes on to discuss how they're going to eradicate measles with the vaccine, which is mind blowing to me since they start the article saying how it's not a big deal at all and that you get lifelong immunity once you have it. But anyway. It's just amazing to me how the CDC was saying how mild the disease is in '67 and then all of a sudden today it's something everyone lives in fear over. Just seems weird to me.

[UUMom]

I appreciate all the thoughts. Thanks for keeping it calm, too.


http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5718a5.htm
74 confirmed cases
14 hospitalizations
0 reported complications
0 deaths


Do you know where it says there were no complications? And this is the first time I've seen where more unvax'd people (and in the NYT article) got measles than vax'd. That's interesintg.

The other site includes baby/toddler reactions & doesn't separate toddler vax from adult vax. I need that info. Is it there and I just don't see it? The 664 figure based is how many MMRs given in a year, and I am thinking it's a couple of million? Some of those reactions, too, didn't result in long- lasting complications.

I am trying to figure out risk factors...664 Vs 2 million or 14 Vs 74. Temporary complications Vs long tasting ones etc.

Measles in small children is not the same as measles in an adult. That's my concern. Try to bear with me as I tweak this out. And as you post, please remember I am not the enemy.

I wish I could get my hands MMR and RA stats.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by UUMom

Measles in small children is not the same as measles in an adult. That's my concern. Try to bear with me as I tweak this out. And as you post, please remember I am not the enemy.

Your child can make her own decision as an adult.

Adult can react badly to the vaccine; adults can react badly to the wild virus . At least you can attempt to treat the latter.

[UUMom]

[QUOTE=Gitti;11479862]How is that? There was not one death, not one lasting complication.
Unlike RA which can make a life totally miserable.

Most of the kids in Switzerland who get measles is by parents' choice. They hold measles parties. Same in Austria and The Netherlands. Of course I am sure some of the kids who got measles did not attend a measles party.

QUOTE]

I am talking about adult and teen risks. I was ok with the kid risk. I am not talking about kids.

[UUMom]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II

Your child can make her own decision as an adult.

Adult can react badly to the vaccine; adults can react badly to the wild virus . At least you can attempt to treat the latter.

You're talking about a parenting choice-- to let it go until they are legal adults, and I am trying to make what I think is a medical decision for minors.

[Magali]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II

Your child can make her own decision as an adult.

Adult can react badly to the vaccine; adults can react badly to the wild virus . At least you can attempt to treat the latter.

I've been reading this thread and trying to process where I stand on the issue. Thanks Emmeline...this makes sense to me.

[UUMom]

Originally Posted by wallacesmum

It doesn't matter WHY the numbers are wrong; the point is that they are wrong. The traditional diagnostic criteria for measles can give false positives, and I don't think most doctors order the bloodwork.

Don't t bite my head off. lol I think it's hard to gather any info, correct or incorrect when the resources are so dang limited. And a misdiagnosis in Africa isn't the same as one in the US. Not to sound like a meanie or anything, but i am trying to make a decision in my part of the world, with the resources here.

[UUMom]

Originally Posted by Magali

I've been reading this thread and trying to process where I stand on the issue. Thanks Emmeline...this makes sense to me.

Yeah, it's taken me until the later teen years to get here. And now with these outbreaks near, while small, is giving me pause since my kids never got the disease in childhood. That would have offerred life- long immunity.

[alegna]

I think in your situation, my reasoning would include talking to them and educating them.

Also, I would consider their lifestyles. Are they particularly health-conscious kids? Or are they rebelling right now and trying to subsist entirely on junk and 2 hours of sleep a night?

-Angela

[Proverbs31]

Originally Posted by UUMom

I appreciate all the thoughts. Thanks for keeping it calm, too.


http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5718a5.htm
74 confirmed cases
14 hospitalizations
0 reported complications
0 deaths


Do you know where it says there were no complications? And this is the first time I've seen where more uivax'd people got measles than vax'd. That's interesintg.

Of all the news coverages there were no reports of complications.

The other site includes baby reactions doesn't separate baby vax from adult vax. I need that info. Is it there and I just don't see it?

Infants and adults get the same MMR vaccine (I'm almost positive that they get the same doseage, as well). But if you meant infant reactions reported, here's the VAERS report for under age 2:
http://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/fin...adsheet+format
247 total adverse events
97 ER visits
15 hospitalizations
1 life-threatening reaction
1 death

The 664 figure based is how many MMRs given in a year, and I am thinking it's a couple of million? Some of those reactions, too, didn't result in long- lasting complications.

Yes, but keep in mind that reactions are dismally under-reported; the FDA estimates that only about 10% of reactions are ever reported.

Some of those reactions, too, didn't result in long- lasting complications.

And neither did the measles cases, despite the oldest "victim" being 71 years old and the youngest being 5 months old.

I am trying to figure out risk factors...664 Vs 2 million or 14 Vs 74. Temporary complications Vs long tasting ones etc.

See, and I view it the opposite way: why assume the risk of the MMR (we did with my son, and my siggy pretty much says how that turned out, but that's a whole other debate), when the reality is that measles in a healthy child is relatively uncomplicated.

Measles in small children is not the same as measles in an adult. That's my concern. Try to bear with me as I tweak this out. And as you post, please remember I am not the enemy.

((hugs)) I completely understand. We should be able to have concrete nubers to make educated decisions, but for so long parents have been encouraged NOT to educate ourselves.

[UUMom]

Dr Jay Gordon-- you've posted here before...and if you're out there now, and maybe reading this, can you PM me? Or something? lol Pretty please. Help a mama of teens. :

[Proverbs31]

I'm sorry, just realized that your kids are older. This is the VAERS report for age 10 and up:

93 total adverse events reported
29 ER visits
0 hospitalizations
0 life-threatening
0 deaths

[UUMom]

Originally Posted by Proverbs31

I'm sorry, just realized that your kids are older. This is the VAERS report for age 10 and up:

93 total adverse events reported
29 ER visits
0 hospitalizations
0 life-threatening
0 deaths

Oh, that's helpful! Where did you find that? link? Does it say how many MMRs were given in this 10 + age group? I'd like to know 93 out of how many. I'd also love to know the ages of those 93. Old people? Sick people? What were the reactions, specifically. ETA-- I just found the main page-- I can do the sifting. Never mind.

I realize this doesn't include RA, and I would like those. I can't find where there is a clear connection. I'd love some help on that.

[Proverbs31]

Athritis is associated with the rubella component of the MMR. From the MMR package insert:

http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_.../mmr_ii_pi.pdf
Following vaccination in children, reactions in joints are uncommon and generally of brief duration. In women, incidence rates for arthritis and arthralgia are generally higher than those seen in children (children: 0-3%; women: 12-26%)7,36,37 and the reactions tend to be more marked and of longer duration. Symptoms may persist for a matter of months or on rare occasions for years. In adolescent girls, the reactions appear to be intermediate in incidence between those seen in children and in adult women.
Even in women older than 35 years, these reactions are generally well tolerated and rarely interfere with normal activities. Myalgia and paresthesia have been reported rarely after administration of MERUVAX II.

But in all fairness, the same joint symptoms can happen if a woman contracts wild-type rubella as well.

[CanidFL]

Originally Posted by UUMom

Yeah, it's taken me until the later teen years to get here. And now with these outbreaks near, while small, is giving me pause since my kids never got the disease in childhood. That would have offerred life- long immunity.

This may be a silly question but have they had titers done? They could actually have immunity already.

Just a thought…