Fermented Veggies and Food Poisoning

[CrunchyFarmGirl]

I'm just getting brave enough to start trying this, but I can't stop worrying about getting some awful or deadly food poisoning with the vegetables. I have some asparagus that should be ready to eat today, but I'm so nervous I'm going to kill myself! Is there a way of knowing for sure that this is safe? I can't find any scientific type articles on it. I'm also wondering if there are obvious signs that it's gone bad when it's a short ferment like 3-4 days vs. the horrible smell I've heard about after longer stored ferments.

Thanks!:

[boadhagh]

I have no idea but my guess (completely unfounded, of course ) is that if something bad is going on but your ferments don't smell horrible, then the badness is probably not enough to even make you ill -- maybe you'll just have to make an extra visit to the bathroom the next day. I really don't think that your going to die from anything after a couple of days -- unless your fermenting random mushrooms or something . . .

[quietserena]

I so go by the smell. Which doesn't work well if you're pregnant so you have to take that into account.

My rule is that if it's growing mold, out it goes (to the worms). Mold would probably make you sick. But unfriendly bacteria can't really compete with the friendly ones in a jar of fermented veggies. Much like in kefir. There are too many kinds of friendly bacteria and the unfriendly ones don't have a chance.

[Jojo F.]

If the veggies themselves have mold on them and the ferment smells bad, toss it. In Katz's book he says you may get a little surface mold but that is a surface phenomena, just scrape it off; I have yet to see this.

If your veggies stay under the brine I highly doubt you will ever have a problem.

[mbravebird]

As long as your veggies have been in an anaerobic enivronment, they should be safe from the bad stuff. This means tightly packed in brine. You might sometimes get mold on the top, but it's unable to go below the brine *as long as you've packed it well enough*, leaving no air bubbles.

That's why some folks roll up leaves across the top or put a weight on top, to keep the anerobic environment.

And I just cover the top with cheesecloth.

[tanyalynn]

I've had a bit of mold on the top--often on beet kvass, occasionally on veggies (salsa, carrots, cauliflower) that just seemed like a surface issue (I need to pack the veggies down more often than usual because it's usually very warm in my kitchen) and I scraped off and then consumed (the veggies, not the mold) to no ill effect.

I've also been assuming that smell would be the main clue, but I've wondered whether that's really true.

[TraditionalMommy]

Interesting topic!

I have often wondered about this, but we have made many different fermented foods and never had a problem. I have a sensitive stomach, but have never gotten a stomach from it. In fact, I often cure my stomach aches my eating a fermented food.

But I do think, like other posters said, that keeping it under the brine is important. I also always smell it. :-)

I had never heard of fermented asparagus though! How did you make you it? It sounds really good.

Kimi @ TheNourishingGourmet.com

[spughy]

The whole point of lactofermentation is that the salt brine is an environment that is inhospitable to all bacteria EXCEPT lactobacillus, which can tolerate salt. Lactobacillus being universally good-for-you types, this is a pretty darn safe way to preserve veg, mold notwithstanding.

But, in the event that you don't add enough salt, smell would be a good indicator. Generally speaking the sniff test works for all foods, except interestingly enough cooked grains - there are bacteria that can grow in cooked rice, for example, that have virtually no detectable odour for humans. I think it's because we've only been eating grains for 10,000 years and our sniffers aren't attuned to those kinds of bugs, just the meat and veg ones.

[MissyH]

You might call your local Master Preservers and they should be able to answer your questions. I have the same fear. I tried it once and put myself into a panic for a week. I havent' done it since. The salt keeps the nasty bacteria from growing. As the lacto bacteria start to grow they produce acid which also prevents the nasty bacteria from growing. Adding whey to the brine innoculates the ferment with lactic acid bacteria which gives the thing a jump start. Here is an excellent guide on when it is safe (or not) to eat your fermented pickles. http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/foodsc...ubs/497-05.pdf

I would just love to do this, but I'm not sure if I would freak out again. I have more or less decided that Bubbies is good enough for me.

[CrunchyFarmGirl]

Thanks so much everyone. I tried the asparagus yesterday afternoon and haven't keeled over yet! I tried it again today (I put it in the fridge after opening yesterday) but could only eat half a stalk. I don't know if the flavor is bad or just not to my taste. I really want to like this, but I have also always hated pickled/vinegared things that seem to have a similar flavor. I also noticed a large pocket of air in the top of my jar that I hadn't realized was there. I had filled a mason jar with brine till it was overflowing then put the lid on, but I think now i should have poked around at it a bit to let the air bubbles out. Anyway, I avoided the tips that were sticking out of the water in case that part was bad.
I was wondering if anyone could describe exactly what it's supposed to smell like. My asparagus was crunchy and tender at the same time sort of, with a sour smell that seemed like it was something that I didn't particularly want to eat, but yet didn't seem repulsive to me like it was obviously gone bad. I do however think that if the same smell/taste was much stronger that I might think it could be bad. After my tasting today I felt a little full and dizzy in the head a bit, but there are always so many things that can cause me to feel like that. This was a four day ferment at room temp inside a cabinet- mostly dark but with some light leaking.

So, what do you all think??? Did I do it right and just need to get used to the taste, or should I throw the rest out and pray I don't start puking?

[spughy]

Gimme a couple days to make my own fermented asparagus and I'll let you know. I should have thought of it earlier... I will grab some tomorrow and stick it in a brine. Did you put any garlic in? I find that always makes the ferments a little tastier. Garlic-pickled carrots are my fave.

[CrunchyFarmGirl]

Yum, the garlic sounds like a great addition. I'll be excited to hear how the asparagus goes! Thanks

[quietserena]

Let us know if you keel over.

[bigknitwit]

I will say here that I made some failed sauerkraut, and the odor was overpoweringly horrible. There was no question in my mind about the state of the kraut I hadn't added enough salt to it, and boy, was it n-a-s-t-y!!