Please help with feelings

[thefragile7393]

I have recently found out that we are likely having a girl. I'm having a huge huge time accepting this.

I wanted another boy badly, I want badly to take back what happened with ds, and to me having another boy and keeping him the way he was intended to be would be sort of my way of "taking back" what happened with ds. It's eaten me up. Now I find out we're likely having a girl and I'm not sure that ds would be up for trying for another child down the road. He's always wanted a girl and likely will view our family as complete.

THe saying goes "when you know better, you do better." What happens when you can't do better...because you don't have a chance to? I knew that obviously it's a 50/50 chance when we started TTC but I truely hoped and prayed for another boy, to make up for what happened to ds. Likely, however, it was for nil.

It's not like vax'ing....you can stop vaxes or not do vaxes for another child. It's maybe a little like missing a natural or intervention-free birth...in many cases (but not all cases) it can happen for a next birth. But this....this.....is a one-time thing (usually, ugh) and you can't just assume you will do better for the next baby....only if it's a boy. I cannot restore it...that's something for him to decide as an adult and it's possible that like his dad he'll think it's "no big deal." I've written ds a letter in his baby book about my feelings and I pray when he starts his own family he'll read it and think twice.

No one understands why this upsets me so much and truely, but that's how badly my guilt and anger have affected me...so much that I feel I cannot rejoice in having a girl (though having a girl HERE in the US is definitely better then having a girl in other places where a girl is expected to undergo the same procedure). Litereally this has just eaten me alive and I've constantly mentally tortured myself since that day. I haven't been able to stop.

Has anyone been in this situation? Can anyone please help me somehow accept and move past this once and for all? I so need to accept and cherish what is growing in me, but to do this I must get past the past....and I am finding I cannot.

[SleeplessMommy]

Please take the time to write to the doctor that did the procedure on your son, letting him/her know how unhappy you are with the result. If they had explained to you about the pain being inflicted on your son, the loss of nerve endings, the risk of infection, the risk of maternal regret, etc ... would you have done it? If the doctor had said "I think its a bad idea and I don't do them anymore" - would you have gone to another doctor?

Very few doctors are getting feedback from their customers/victims. And the Ob/gyns that do the cutting are not the ped. urologists that fix meatal stenosis. It is really important for people to speak up about this.

[thefragile7393]

As far as I can tell, everything went okay. But this

If they had explained to you about the pain being inflicted on your son, the loss of nerve endings, the risk of infection, the risk of maternal regret, etc ... would you have done it? If the doctor had said "I think its a bad idea and I don't do them anymore" - would you have gone to another doctor?

is true. I was in a flippin' hormone fog, listening to others, didn't come to this site although I knew about it. The "what-if's" and everything go through my hormonal mind constantly.

[amandaleigh37]

I'm sorry
I know how you feel, my DS is 20 months and we are TTC again... I really want another boy for the exact reasons you describe. I want to break the cycle in our families. I want to do better.
I don't have any advice for you... but just wanted to say I know how you feel. Writing a letter to your son is a great idea, and I see others suggested writing to the doc that did it. Another good idea (I haven't done this, but have thought about it...).

[perspective]

Originally Posted by thefragile7393

IWhat happens when you can't do better...because you don't have a chance to?

I understand what your going through right now (in a way). I may not be a mother, but I am a young circed male. The tradition of circumcision have left different kinds of emotional wounds on us. Yet what is the same about us now is dealing with the reality that their will never be an easy way for that wound to heal.

I have dealt with that feeling, the day I realized there their is no way to just reverse this. For you, you have realized that their now is no way for you to directly heal your wounds. No day where you will be able to boldly stand and make the better choice for all the world, (and most importantly) and for yourself to see.

I think the first thing you need to understand is that any action you make with future children will never really heal what happened with your first son. That pain will probably stay just as strong with you until you start to see how he heals, and deals with his situation in a healthy and happy way.

Keep working as an intactivist in some way, I know that kind of activity makes me feel better, and to learn more about the medical side of this, I think the more mothers you help, the more in control, and generally better you will feel.

Most of all, you still have a lot to do for your son. You need to work extra hard to instill in him ideas that our culture does not provide in boys. That is him understanding he has a right to control his body, that no part of his body is dirty or harmful, and that even in his circumcised state he should be taught to be proud of every inch of his body.

We always talk about empowering girls (which we should) but there is one way in which boys also need to be empowered, and if you can provide that to him, I can tell you, you can heal any emotional wounds that could otherwise develop in him. Stopping the cycle is much more then the practice, its about starting a new train of thought, and you can still do that for him. And you still have the chance of raising a man that wants nothing more then to bring home his sons whole, and on that day I think you will have a chance to be fully healed yourself.

[thefragile7393]

Originally Posted by perspective

And you still have the chance of raising a man that wants nothing more then to bring home his sons whole, and on that day I think you will have a chance to be fully healed yourself.

Your whole post has brought tears to my eyes (again lol). I just hope I can counteract anything that dh will tell him....he has no clue and chooses not to have a clue. It's such a long time down the road but I do hope I can instill intactivism in him somehow....and fight that uphill battle.

[Blu Razzberri]

Well; I'm in the middle of PM's with you about this; but I wanted to publicly state that I too felt that way and 100% understand the feelings and emotions behind this wanting a boy to change things. I'll be telling you this in the next PM too; but in case anyone else is 'listening' and relating; I don't feel that you can "change" anything by having another boy. What's been done to your son is now unchangeable. It doesn't stop you from being an activist and educating as many people as you possibly can so their sons can be spared this brutal and horrible "procedure" (I don't even want to call it that; it seems too mild).

Originally Posted by SleeplessMommy

Please take the time to write to the doctor...Very few doctors are getting feedback from their customers/victims...

Specifically the part in red, hits home. I never even thought of my son as a victim! Wow. : That's a sadly powerful and true term.

Originally Posted by perspective

......Stopping the cycle is much more then the practice, its about starting a new train of thought...

Ah, 'Perspective'...always good to see your responses on here. I had to quote it, because it's very much worth repeating!! It's definitely about creating a new train of thought. It's frustrating as hell when that train derails (ie: when someone "decides" to circ despite the information you've given them); but we carry on, put that train back on the track and keep chugging forward. 'Perspective' is absolutely right about the many things you have left to teach your son about this.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you not to beat yourself up over it; because I've been told that about this very thing; and it doesn't matter - I beat myself up over it all the time. But I also keep in mind that I'm human; and I too was pushed into circ'ing in the haze of hormones and it was scare tactics as well as what I refer to as 'pressure sales' ...that little extra push that I needed to make a horrifying choice for my son. These doctors are goooood at this convincing thing. Just like me, you were taken advantage of, indefinitely. Try to remind yourself of that when you're upset about it; ok? ....

[fruitful womb]

Originally Posted by perspective

I understand what your going through right now (in a way). I may not be a mother, but I am a young circed male. The tradition of circumcision have left different kinds of emotional wounds on us. Yet what is the same about us now is dealing with the reality that their will never be an easy way for that wound to heal.

I have dealt with that feeling, the day I realized there their is no way to just reverse this. For you, you have realized that their now is no way for you to directly heal your wounds. No day where you will be able to boldly stand and make the better choice for all the world, (and most importantly) and for yourself to see.

I think the first thing you need to understand is that any action you make with future children will never really heal what happened with your first son. That pain will probably stay just as strong with you until you start to see how he heals, and deals with his situation in a healthy and happy way.

Keep working as an intactivist in some way, I know that kind of activity makes me feel better, and to learn more about the medical side of this, I think the more mothers you help, the more in control, and generally better you will feel.

Most of all, you still have a lot to do for your son. You need to work extra hard to instill in him ideas that our culture does not provide in boys. That is him understanding he has a right to control his body, that no part of his body is dirty or harmful, and that even in his circumcised state he should be taught to be proud of every inch of his body.

We always talk about empowering girls (which we should) but there is one way in which boys also need to be empowered, and if you can provide that to him, I can tell you, you can heal any emotional wounds that could otherwise develop in him. Stopping the cycle is much more then the practice, its about starting a new train of thought, and you can still do that for him. And you still have the chance of raising a man that wants nothing more then to bring home his sons whole, and on that day I think you will have a chance to be fully healed yourself.

And I'll echo it again:

boys also need to be empowered

Your whole post is brilliant perspective! I've spoken about you in front of DS1 (who is circ'd, thefragile7393) and he said he wants to meet you. wow! When he is ready I'd like for you to PM me a few communities thats safe for him to venture into re: this subject among his peers.

thefragile7393, I'd like to point out to you that one the leading founders for Genital Integrity awareness is Marilyn Milos. She has three boys. All of whom are circumcised. Had she been truly informed her boys would be intact. She never had anymore children. BUT ALL of her grandboys are intact!

I'll test to the fact that having more boys and leaving them intact FEELS GREAT! But, it can resurface guilt wounds and they can become pretty damn raw.

I have two other intact boys and apart of me wants to have 5 more just so I can bring forth more intact citizens for America. None of it will change or heal the fact of what happened to my first ds.

What does help is, just like what perspective said, work extra hard in nurturing him so he becomes informed and empowered.

Bruising egos is the main ingredient in continuing this atrocity. If they already feel good about them selves providing the fact they know circumcision is inherently wrong, they're not going to want to circ for the 'ol, "I want him to look like me" cr@p.



If you never have more children hold on for those grandbabies for they're bound to be intact all thanks to you. If you want to try for a boy,

Male seeds are smaller swim faster but die quicker. Female seeds are bigger slower but live longer.

For a male, have sex right when you ovulate. Your prime ovulation is when your discharge is a clear egg white consistency. Partner should withhold sex until you're at the peek (egg white discharge) in your cycle.

That way the male seeds will get to the egg quicker right when the egg is available.

hth,

[latinalonestar]

I'm so sorry you are having these feelings. (((hugs))) I can imagine how you feel. As others have said, I think it would be good for you to get involved as an intactivist. You will never be able to give your first son back his foreskin, but you can help save other baby boys even if they aren't yours and you can teach your children better.

(((BIG HUGS)))

[thefragile7393]

I have two other intact boys and apart of me wants to have 5 more just so I can bring forth more intact citizens for America. None of it will change or heal the fact of what happened to my first ds.

That is true. Even if I somehow get another boy...it's true. It's very true...I never thought of this.

I did FAM, tried to do Shettles method...I never could tell when I was and was not ovulating....it was never clear cut. Hence...our girl lol.

[teachinmaof3]

Lori

You have received some great advice here! When I was reading your post, this is exactly what I was thinking:

Keep working as an intactivist in some way, I know that kind of activity makes me feel better, and to learn more about the medical side of this, I think the more mothers you help, the more in control, and generally better you will feel.

[Mom4tot]

I want to give you a hug too

I am glad you are writing this out now and trying to sort it out. You have plenty of time to grieve and express these feelings. I hope you are able to work through some of this and really enjoy your baby girl, you deserve it and so does she. Much love to you.

[MommaLauraRN]

We need intactivist mamas with daughters too! I know many of us feel relief when a pro-circer has a girl, but it's only a temporary relief if that girl is raised to feel/believe that circ is better because that is what her parents teach her. You will teach both of your children about the truth of circumcision, your regrets once you found out the truth, and how strongly you feel it is wrong. That is what's really important, not another son with a foreskin to "make up" kwim? Hugs to you and congratulations on your baby girl!

[nummies]

Thank you so much for this post. I really appreciate all the responses. I find myself wishing for another boy so that I can "do it right" this time too.

[ZoolyZen]

I circed my son before I knew better and if I have another son he will most certainly be intact. I feel the guilt and pain you are feeling. I feel so sorry that I let them do that to my perfect boy. And I wish I could take it back, but I can't. Having another son is not going to change what happened to my first son. It is the same with you. How can you say that you only want a boy so that you can be sure not to circ him? Have your girl and love her. You made a mistake, but you need to grieve and accept it. And try not to be so hard on yourself. You made that choice before you were informed. If you feel that you need to do something proactive on behalf of your first son, make an anti-circ website, educate others, or find something else you can do to prevent it from happening to other babies. Even if you can't avoid circ for your own baby, wouldn't it help to know that you influenced someone else to keep their baby intact?

[thefragile7393]

How can you say that you only want a boy so that you can be sure not to circ him?

Oh no, no that isn't the only reason, though I certainly see that I worded my post to where it sounds that way. Ever since I was little I've always liked boy dolls to girl dolls....when my friends grew up and had kids the ones who had boys I wanted to hang around with more. I generally just like little boys better...not sure why. I had horrendous hormonal problems when I hit puberty (severe anxiety, agorophobia, had to have serious counseling for a year) and once my cycle started things settled down, but the damage was done....and up until I had ds I had horrible PMS and hormonal problems. My mom had hormonal problems. I really fear for this lo down the road because all it took for me was a year of hell to have things messed up. That's a whole other story and thread though.

I do feel that had ds been left intact, I'd be more accepting of a girl...not as hard. As it is, a lot of the comments here have helped a lot, particularly reminded me that even if this lo was a boy...it still dosn't change what happened to ds. No matter what, I still can't take that back. I have an uphill battle because I have to make sure that dh's bs gets filtered out if he starts in on how it's not a big deal, as well as those in his family who feel it's not a big deal. I am the mom though....there's a good chance that my voice will be heard. It's true, both genders need to be educated on why it's a bad choice. I have a long way to go but these comments are helping.