HUGE tonsils = allergy??? **update post #9**

[BethSLP]

DD has huge tonsils. snores. possible candidate for tonsillectomy (depending on results of sleep study). Do you think this could be allergy related?

She eats a lot of dairy (as she is vegetarian) and I probably give her more cheese than I should. However, we don't do cow's milk. She's a soy milk girl.

DH has allergies. I am allergic to nothing that I know of. DH has issues with grass, pollen, dander, egg, and a few others. He could not eat eggs as a kid, but now he can. However, his test still showed a strong reaction to egg. So thats a weird one for me to understand.....

Would a dairy allergy be something to consider based only on the tonsils? She is prone to ear infections and has the huge tonsils, but no eczema, loose stool, etc. The lack of other symptoms makes me wonder if an allergy is unlikely?? She is not congested unless she is sick. She does get bugs but she started montessori at age 16 months which I attribute as being the cause of her frequent colds.

If you do think that allergy is a possibility, what is the next step? Elimination diet? Testing? and if it is a diet, how long do you do it to know whether or not its made a difference?

Since the beginning of May, I have been giving her echinacea, vitamin C, and two standard process herbs daily to help boost her immune system. She hasn't been sick since, but I can't attribute it to just the herbs because its now summer (which is good for less exposure to kids at school, and also summer season). the tonsils are still big.

Any advice?
XOXO
Beth

[nalo]

I don't know lots about this (tonsils) but thought I'd share a few thoughts. First, I just want to urge you to do LOTS of research before truly considering removing the tonsils since that is generally just a band-aid and does not address the true problem in the body. It's very important to keep the tonsils but I'm sure you know that. I hate to say it but the dairy is a likely culprit. Food allergies/intollerances can manifest in MANY different ways and the symptoms you mention definately fit. The other unfortunate thing to tell you is that 50% of people who are dairy intollerant are also soy intollerant. So...my recommendation would be an elimination diet removing 100% of all dairy and soy from her diet. Tough? Yes. Doable? Yes. Super important to try to get to the bottom of this. Her body is very inflamed right now and needs a long chance to heal. Hopefully this diet will allow you to find out the culprit but if it doesn't you may need to start eliminating other foods (hopefully you'll see some improvement within a few weeks). Also, you may want to switch from regular vit.c to sodium ascorbate to give her the extra boost.

[tanyalynn]

It seems everyone has a different combo of allergy symptoms (if they have allergies, of course). My daughter's tonsils got a lot smaller when we cut out gluten. She's never had eczema or skin problems, but her poop was too squishy (not diarrhea, just too squishy), she had sleep issues and dark circles under her eyes. The sleep just took a few days to get better, but the tonsils were probably the longest, I think 3-4 weeks. I think the best way is just to try dairy (since you're already suspicious of it), and consider egg (family history), gluten (it's such a common one) or some of the other top allergens. We've never done testing, so I don't know what may be helpful there.

[BethSLP]

Originally Posted by DoulaMary

Food allergies/intollerances can manifest in MANY different ways and the symptoms you mention definately fit. The other unfortunate thing to tell you is that 50% of people who are dairy intollerant are also soy intollerant. So...my recommendation would be an elimination diet removing 100% of all dairy and soy from her diet. Tough? Yes. Doable? Yes.

YIKES. DD is vegetarian and LIVES on soymilk, tofu, etc. Such a sad thought to comtemplate. I'll definetly do what it takes, but I just can't imagine how I'll get protein into her.

Can they allergy test for these things or is the diet the best way to go?

XOXO
B

[nalo]

Originally Posted by BethSLP

YIKES. DD is vegetarian and LIVES on soymilk, tofu, etc. Such a sad thought to comtemplate. I'll definetly do what it takes, but I just can't imagine how I'll get protein into her.

Can they allergy test for these things or is the diet the best way to go?

XOXO
B

They can allergy test for anything but the problem is that allergy testing is not fully reliable, with lots of false positives and negatives. So...while it can be a useful tool to some, your best bet is the elimination diet complete with detailed food and symptom journaling. Make sure you read all labels and look for hidden dairy/soy (the example I always give is that most deli meat has sodium caseinate in it - so you really need to be vigilant with your checking - even though you don't eat meat, you get the point). While many soy intollerant people can handle soy lecithin (which is in everything!) you need to cut that out for now too until your LO gets better and then you can trial it and hopefully it will be fine. You can use (enriched) rice or almond milk but yogurt and cheese will be gone unfortunately. Hopefully your LO likes beans, quinoa, peanut or almond butter (if you are allowing those now). You can make yummy bean dips for dipping veggies and crackers. You can use lots of coconut milk/oil and avocado to keep up the good fats. Feel free to come back often with more questions!

[zjandosmom]

Hi, just wanted to respond that we are in the first week of cutting dairy and soy from my 5 yr olds diet. He is a vegetarian (by his choice) and I too was worried about protein. Our Dr rec I just 'let go' of my worry over protein, etc while we are all getting the hang of the elimination diet. I will tell you my son is eating a lot of fruit right now and it feels like not much else. We are using rice milk and my other kids even like it. The soy has been the hardest but we are doing pretty good over here!
Good luck!!

[kjbrown92]

Allergy testing will also not find an intolerance, which this could be. I second the vote for milk/soy. It's a possibility that it's egg, but your DH passes down the tendency toward allergies, not the actual (egg) allergy.

Snoring, enlarged tonsils, and tendency toward ear infections are all signs of intolerance. My DS stopped snoring after we took his trigger foods out of his diet (milk, soy, cocoa).

I would try dietary changes before I considered surgery of any sort. I was worried about my kids' snoring as well, and thought they were on a route to getting their adenoids out, until I found their foods. And the nights are pretty quiet now!

[Jadethehut]

For protein you might want to explore some "weird" foods like quinoa, buckwheat, amaranth (which I think is nasty =P), and maybe other beans.

Jade's intolerant to pretty much everything (salicylates, amines, dairy, wheat, etc, etc, etc...) so all we eat are various types of dried beans, lentils and brown rice, iceberg lettuce and chicken, and those weird foods above, and she's still having reactions sometimes. =(

I don't get how that lady is still doing this after 3 years!! I kind of hope Jade doesn't breastfeed that long so I can add some fruits, veggies and herbs back into my diet!

[BethSLP]

Just wanted to give you all an update.

We started dairy/soy/egg elimination on June 24. Didn't see much change in the first week. Did more research and decided (with trepidation) to add gluten to our list of no-nos.

We took out gluten on July 1 (after 1 week on the diet). On Tues, it will be one week without gluten.

I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but one tonsil appears to be shrinking. The change is slight at this point, so I can't say for sure if its the diet, but my fingers are crossed.

Just wanted to thank you all for the information you have provided so far. Its a tremendous feeling as a parent to see a glimmer of hope to help your LO avoid surgery.

To other parents, its WORTH IT to try.

XOXO
B

[changingseasons]

That is so exciting! Keeping my fingers crossed that her tonsils continue to shrink! :

[lil_miss_understood]

If taking out gluten doesn't work fully, I would suggest considering taking out *wheat* altogether. Believe it or not, in some respects it's actually more restrictive than removal of gluten (as I've learned the hard way). If you want a list of wheat derivatives, I can provide one if you pm me (I don't know of any online, but maybe someone else does).
Hoping you don't have to remove anything else!:

[nalo]

That's great! I would just settle into this new diet, stop looking at the tonsils, and then look at them again in a month. You will then be able to notice any shrinkage way more readily than if you are checking every few days for tiny little changes, yk? Hope they keep on shrinkin'!!

[BethSLP]

Originally Posted by DoulaMary

That's great! I would just settle into this new diet, stop looking at the tonsils, and then look at them again in a month. You will then be able to notice any shrinkage way more readily than if you are checking every few days for tiny little changes, yk? Hope they keep on shrinkin'!!

I hope so too. My only area of confusion at this point though, is that our naturopath friend said that its important to reintroduce things without too long without it. She said most elimination diets should start adding things back after week 3, because if you have the food out of your diet too long your immune system can become so strong that the result is not seen when reintroduced. But that didn't make too much sense to me since her elimination diet has you eliminating a LOT of things at once and then slowly adding them back in. So if you cut out 8 things and slowly reintroduce some back, some of those are going to be out of your diet a lot longer than the 3 weeks.

We're trying to figure that all out now.

Also, we are still vegetarians, so dairy/egg/soy/gluten free leaves us with not much. I feel OK and feel like its definetly worth it, but I'm not thrilled about some of the replacements for DD. For example, she is eating the 3 gluten free Envirokids cereals with rice milk. Those cereals are essentially junk IMO. Corn, sugar, very little protein, etc. Rice milk isn't that impressive either. I just feel a little sad at trading Kashi Go lean and soymilk for the organic equivalent of Cocoa puffs. KWIM?

DD has been very accomodating throughout all this. But I'm struggling with what it will mean if she truly is allergic to one or more of these things that are out right now. I don't feel great about giving her chicken and fish, but that seems the only reasonable thing if she is allergic to all this. But one day at a time. I'm so happy to think they might be shrinking.....

If she's only allergic to gluten, I guess there are plenty of options for us to remain vegetarian.

And I would like more information about wheat and wheat derivatives. I thought we were doing the more extreme version (no gluten) since we cut out wheat, oats, rye and barley....but sounds like there's more to the story??

As always, I'm grateful to you all for your help in this journey.
XOXO
B

[BethSLP]

Oh, and just wanted to add that DD is taking a nap right now, and laying on her back and isn't snoring.....very good sign. Of course, right when I got up to come out to the computer, she shifted lightly and I heard a slight little snore noise, but nothing like before.

ironically, when we first cut out dairy/soy/egg, we were eating a freakin TON of gluten. my husband made gluten meat from gluten flour and we put it in everything so we could get protein. sauce, barbecued gluten, etc. ACK. feels so idiotic now

anyhow, we'll keep on truckin and see how things go.

we leave on the 14th to see my husband's mother for a week. both of my nephews (ages 3.5 and 2) will be there, and DH's brother. this will be the biggest challenge we've faced yet. Brother in law is great and supportive, but i'm sure the boys will be eating their velveeta mac and cheese. I'm gearing up for this now mentally. 8 days. it will be hard to leave my kitchen. Luckily, my MIL is a crunchy hippie, so she'll be supportive also. It could be worse, but I know it won't be easy.

XOXO
B

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by BethSLP

I hope so too. My only area of confusion at this point though, is that our naturopath friend said that its important to reintroduce things without too long without it. She said most elimination diets should start adding things back after week 3, because if you have the food out of your diet too long your immune system can become so strong that the result is not seen when reintroduced. But that didn't make too much sense to me since her elimination diet has you eliminating a LOT of things at once and then slowly adding them back in. So if you cut out 8 things and slowly reintroduce some back, some of those are going to be out of your diet a lot longer than the 3 weeks.

Yeah, that doesn't seem right to me either. From what I've read (of course I don't remember where....) and from our experience, the longer you wait to reintroduce, the stronger of a reaction you will have.

I guess that's just to a point though- if you wait long enough, possibly your body's had time to heal so a reaction might not be as strong. But I think that's kind of the point...

But a few weeks is definitely not long enough for your body to heal and for the antibodies to die down enough to stop reacting. Everything that I've read says to remove the offending foods for at least 6-12 months. Even longer if the symptoms are severe, because there is a lot of healing to get done in the gut.

[nalo]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

Yeah, that doesn't seem right to me either. From what I've read (of course I don't remember where....) and from our experience, the longer you wait to reintroduce, the stronger of a reaction you will have.

I guess that's just to a point though- if you wait long enough, possibly your body's had time to heal so a reaction might not be as strong. But I think that's kind of the point...

But a few weeks is definitely not long enough for your body to heal and for the antibodies to die down enough to stop reacting. Everything that I've read says to remove the offending foods for at least 6-12 months. Even longer if the symptoms are severe, because there is a lot of healing to get done in the gut.

I agree. All I have heard and read specifies waiting at least 6 months for any food reintroduction. However, this is for food that is known to cause a reaction. You may do an ED and come to find that 3 of the foods are not causing any problems. If you figure this out via ED, achieving baseline, and trialing foods then that is a different story. Does that make sense? I'll try to be clearer: Random Example: DD has eczema. We cut out dairy, soy, corn, gluten. After 6 weeks we are at baseline. We trial corn - no reaction so it stays in the diet. We trial gluten - no reaction so it stays in the diet. We trial dairy - eczema flares, we vow to keep that out for at least 6-12 months. We wait again until baseline. We trial soy - eczema flares, we vow to keep that our for 6-12 months before another trial. We are left with a dairy/soy free diet and we work on actively healing the gut as well w/ CLO, probiotics and the like.

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by BethSLP

And I would like more information about wheat and wheat derivatives. I thought we were doing the more extreme version (no gluten) since we cut out wheat, oats, rye and barley....but sounds like there's more to the story??

It is in that you take out more actual foods going gf, but when you start looking at wheat derivatives, it gets a little harder.
Some examples: most white vinegar is derived from wheat (or petroleum as CS and I recently learned, some is made from corn but I think that's the exception), even though it's considered a gf food: so, French's mustard, though gf is not wheat free. I've seen maltodextrin (on further investigation, derived from wheat) in gf products- same with dextrose, though the source for this is more usually corn, it *can* be wheat.
Those are the 3 big ones I've noticed a lot- and caramel coloring. These 4 ingredients often slip by unnoticed if you just go by "gluten free".
Oh yeah, vanilla extract also. It may be made with wheat alcohol even though it's gf.

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by BethSLP

... She said most elimination diets should start adding things back after week 3, because if you have the food out of your diet too long your immune system can become so strong that the result is not seen when reintroduced...

She may subscribe to the "empty bucket" theory. If you remove the allergens for long enough, you empty your "allergy bucket" and you won't react to the allergens again until your "allergy bucket" is full again.

[krizzanne]

BethSLP,

any update? how did the diet go?

[matey]

This thread has opened my eyes. All my life I have battled ear infections, I had my enlarged tonsils taken out two years ago, because in the spring/fall they would swell to the point that I could feel them touching, congestion.

When I was a kid my allergistt tried to get me to do an elimination diet, but I would find food and sneak it. I remember scoring oreos and skittles once. So, I never completed the ED. Looks like I should have...