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Radical unschooling and organized sports - Page 2

post #21 of 161
UUmom, i agree...if he is a good coach, he will be doing a warm-up that he has specifically created to meet the needs of the particpants...so not doing it would perhaps even be dangerous. and as Kessed said, it's nearly impossible to do a different warm-up for every kid...a parent would need to volunteer to research a suitable alternative and then be the one to carry it out every practice. if this is a rec. sport, the guy is most definitely a volunteer and probably has a job and family of his own to deal with, so i doubt he has to the time to come up with all that.
post #22 of 161
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kessed View Post
But please don't insult recreational team sports.
I didn't. I didn't even insult institutionalized/managed team sports.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bellymama
OP, yet again i am amazed at another person asking a WWYD type question and then saying: "i don't see this as relevant" when someone posts something you don't see falling into what you were hoping they would say.
Yes, I'm saying it's not relevant because it's not relevant. I don't know what's so amazing about that.

UUMom, I've already addressed those things. I am not against warming up. I don't know how to say it any clearer than that. It is not the issue. I also know, as I've already said, that my son doesn't have to continue with this coach. Not the issue, doesn't have to be covered again. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellymama
it's nearly impossible to do a different warm-up for every kid...a parent would need to volunteer to research a suitable alternative and then be the one to carry it out every practice.
I think this is absurd. Why does a parent have to oversee the warming-up? Why does it have to be researched? This is kids playing a game. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Kids sports in general are completely over-thought and over-managed.

Now look, of course you don't have to agree with me about that. But I'm just at a loss as to why I can't come here to express my disappointment with that without being met with the same response over and over -- "it's the right way and the best way and if you don't like it you can leave. We don't want anyone questioning the appropriateness of it or not towing the party line."

Nobody want to talk about the RU aspects of this? Or the monopolization of a schooly approach to kids sports? Really?
post #23 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourlittlebirds View Post
I didn't. I didn't even insult institutionalized/managed team sports.
Yes you did...

[quote
Yes, I'm saying it's not relevant because it's not relevant. I don't know what's so amazing about that.[/quote]

Why do you get to decide what's relevant to this discussion? You brought a topic forward. And people are discussing it.


[quote
I think this is absurd. Why does a parent have to oversee the warming-up? Why does it have to be researched? This is kids playing a game. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Kids sports in general are completely over-thought and over-managed. [/quote]

You child should warm up before the practice or game. The coach is providing a standard warm up.

The point is that if your son doesn't want to do that warm up - it is NOT a valid option to just sit that part out. He still should do a warm up. So - that would become your responsibility to provide a good warm-up for him.


Quote:
Now look, of course you don't have to agree with me about that. But I'm just at a loss as to why I can't come here to express my disappointment with that without being met with the same response over and over -- "it's the right way and the best way and if you don't like it you can leave. We don't want anyone questioning the appropriateness of it or not towing the party line."

Nobody want to talk about the RU aspects of this? Or the monopolization of a schooly approach to kids sports? Really?
I guess it's mind blowing as to why you're disappointed. You signed your kid up for a mainstream sports team. And now you're upset that the mainstream coach doesn't support RU??????

That seems really harsh.

It also doesn't seem fair to approach a mainstream sports team and expect them to conform to your ideals.
post #24 of 161
Well, to get back on topic, lol, I haven't figured out how anything in a large group works well with RU. I don't understand how unschoolers even do co-ops with each other, let alone organized sports. I'm not saying it can't work, I just can't wrap my head around how. I think it's really sad that there is such a lack of opportunity for sports played more cooperatively (and I don't mean working together as a team to stomp the opponent).

We did try playing soccer with some other homeschoolers once but there was a disconnect with communication. The organizer called it not competitive which I took too literally. I didn't understand why my suggestions of playing with more than one ball so the younger kids would have more opportunity to kick was assumed to be a joke.

That didn't work out for us because some of the older kids played on organized teams and brought that goal oriented attitude onto the field. And there was a great age disparity so it just ended up that the big kids monopolized the ball and the younger ones got discouraged.

So we're sticking with bike riding, running around, and maybe in a year, some martial arts if we can find something that doesn't emphasize competition too much. Personally, I've never enjoyed any organized sport I've tried though I have enjoyed the actual activities when disassociated from a team.
post #25 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kessed View Post
The coach is almost definitely a volunteer. That makes him fundamentally different from a doctor or midwife.
Not really. His position is created by a demand, whether or not it's paid. It's his choice to do it and he presumably gets some gratification out of it. Kids shouldn't have to just suck it up and be grateful for whatever they get from a volunteer.
post #26 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourlittlebirds View Post

Nobody want to talk about the RU aspects of this? Or the monopolization of a schooly approach to kids sports? Really?

I am just not sure what you mean by that. You said the coach was a nice guy, yes? He's running a team, he's trying to keep the kids safe? Is he belittling the kids ? Encouragement/harrasmment/coersion are not the same. Team sports might be wrong for some kids, but they are optional. We tend to just call up a few friends or meet at the park and that works well.

I didn't hear the coach , his tone, or his disrepect-- and I also not sure wanting the kids to warm up is a sign of disrespc. I would want my child (if she did an organized sport) to be safe. To me, that does mean warming the body beforehand. I know you don't want to talk about this part of it anymore, but I can't see why warming up as part of the program is bad. How long is the run? Are the kid able to manage or is it extreme?

I would say be done with it since it's not working your your family. I am not big into organized sports myself.
post #27 of 161
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kessed View Post
Yes you did...
Where? Either you're reading into my words something that isn't there, or I was unintentionally misleading. It would be nice to know why you're getting that impression.

Quote:
Why do you get to decide what's relevant to this discussion? You brought a topic forward. And people are discussing it.
I'll try once more. I wrote several posts about how my son is having difficulty with an activity and an adult's response to it, and my own lamenting of the micro-managing of kids' sports, and the general lack of respect for kids in our culture. Someone responds by saying that lots of people like hard-core training. Well yeah, sure they do. But I didn't dispute that, and it has no bearing on the thread topic. It's not a big deal that she mentioned it, I just don't understand the point of bringing it up.

Quote:
The point is that if your son doesn't want to do that warm up - it is NOT a valid option to just sit that part out. He still should do a warm up. So - that would become your responsibility to provide a good warm-up for him.
I didn't say he shouldn't do a warm-up, nor that he wasn't doing a warm-up, nor, for the umpteenth time, that I have anything against warm-ups. You're missing all my points, apparently. I have a problem with following authority for the sake of following authority. I don't agree with the hallowed notion of running as necessary and appropriate warm-up. I don't think kids should be coerced to do something that feels internally wrong to them. I feel sorry that non-micromanaged sports-play is so difficult to find in our culture.

Quote:
I guess it's mind blowing as to why you're disappointed. You signed your kid up for a mainstream sports team. And now you're upset that the mainstream coach doesn't support RU?????? That seems really harsh. It also doesn't seem fair to approach a mainstream sports team and expect them to conform to your ideals.
Wow, you're putting quite the spin on this. As I said, I didn't knowingly sign my child up for a mainstream team. My experience with Ultimate Frisbee has been very different, so that was what I was expecting. I don't have a right to be disappointed about that? Gosh, well I'm sorry.

And yeah, it's upsetting to me when anyone is coercive toward my child. What, I'm not supposed to feel anything about that? Seriously?

And please, I'm not trying to take over the team here. I expressed a concern with the hope that the coach would listen to it with an open heart. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. But the notion that one shouldn't even try to affect change, if it's possible, is crazy to me. Maybe the coach would have been open to it. Maybe he would have said, "hey, I never thought of it that way." Some people believe that it's never okay to speak up when you don't like something or think it's wrong or think it could be better. I'm not one of those people.
post #28 of 161
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4evermom View Post
Well, to get back on topic, lol,
Well, thanks!

Quote:
I haven't figured out how anything in a large group works well with RU. I don't understand how unschoolers even do co-ops with each other, let alone organized sports. I'm not saying it can't work, I just can't wrap my head around how. I think it's really sad that there is such a lack of opportunity for sports played more cooperatively (and I don't mean working together as a team to stomp the opponent).
You know, I think at least part of this is that it's not something that just is in our culture. The framework for it isn't already set up. And we've all been brought up to rely on a framework already being in place instead of creating community in an organic way.

Quote:
So we're sticking with bike riding, running around, and maybe in a year, some martial arts if we can find something that doesn't emphasize competition too much.
My boys do Ki-Aikido, it emphasizes the mind-body connection and physical skills and, at least at the kid level, it's not competitive, more about personal growth.
post #29 of 161
Perhaps there will be some useful ideas here below, perhaps not. Please take what works for you and leave the rest.

Practice is tough. I hated swim practice some days back when I was younger, others I liked it. Meets were okay sometimes, but very stressful and demanding to me mostly. If I could have had one wish, it would be that my swim team had been non competitive, just cause that's how I am. I am more about having fun and working together as a team. I could care less about "beating the next guy" and whatever. It's fun to win, but not at the expense of enjoyment. I don't mind working hard, too, if there feels like a reason for it.

Everyone is different. If your son experiences this team, dislikes practices that wear him out and are not fun, and really feels after an amount of time that it's not for him, then I think your idea to start up a less-competitive homeschool team fits the bill better.

I recall quitting swim team my senior year. It was taxing, especially emotionally for me with a very impersonal coach. The year before, I'd had to battle with the school admin. and my previous coach for my swim letter, a very big deal to me, due to my coach's dislike of me...it was terrible and left a bad taste in my mouth...so the last year, I wasn't that sad to go. I was slower than I'd ever been my senior year, and was working a part-time job teaching swim lessons and getting ready to start college and swimming on the team was ebbing away from my strength and not giving me back enough.

When I quit the team, my coach gave me a lot of guilt tripiness, saying things like, "If you quit, you'll always regret it." In my heart, I knew she was wrong, but I was so confused why she said that. It wasn't like I was going to swim in college or anything. It was the end of one part of my life in order to make room for another.

I wish she would have said, "I respect your decision. If you change your mind, you're always welcome to come back. We'll really miss you, but good luck with your future!" I had so much ahead of me and could have used the encouragement. I myself have very sad feelings about sometimes coaches or teams getting caught up in what's best for them, and leaving out the individual entirely. Or thinking they know what's best for me, though our values differ greatly.

I never regretted my decision b/c I had thought about it carefully for a while and it made sense to me. I knew what I was doing was what I needed to do. I encourage you and your son to pay attention to what is right for him. Only he and you can figure that out.

It sounds to me like you are giving him the opportunity to learn more about himself, what he likes, and the chance to challenge himself. Even if he decides this team and atmosphere aren't for him, he's learned a lot and it's very valuable. If he finds he learns to do the hard stuff, and he gets stronger, and there are aspects of being on the team that he feels good about, then he's learned he has internal strength and maybe the team is worth it. Good luck
post #30 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourlittlebirds View Post
My boys do Ki-Aikido, it emphasizes the mind-body connection and physical skills and, at least at the kid level, it's not competitive, more about personal growth.
I was checking out martial arts places last night and they all sound pretty scary to me except a nearish aikido place. But what is funny (to me) is that what I find scary about them are what other people assert is a positive. For instance, one of the homeschoolers on a yahoo list mentioned how great one place was because if a kid wasn't doing well in school and at home, they weren't allowed to test for the next belt. They asked the parents whether the kid was behaving well enough at school and home to test. Another person emphasized how great another place because it stressed Christian values. Then some of the websites talk about how they teach self discipline. Scary stuff.

My conclusion is that I cannot ask anyone for recommendations.
post #31 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourlittlebirds;
And please, I'm not trying to take over the team here. I expressed a [I
concern[/I] with the hope that the coach would listen to it with an open heart. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. But the notion that one shouldn't even try to affect change, if it's possible, is crazy to me. Maybe the coach would have been open to it. Maybe he would have said, "hey, I never thought of it that way." Some people believe that it's never okay to speak up when you don't like something or think it's wrong or think it could be better. I'm not one of those people.
I don't think I am a person who never speaks up lol or says ok to people harming my kids. I am trying here, I really am.

Recap--The coach has a warmup, your son has a difficult time with it. Did the coach say to run until he pukes? Did he tell him to go slow, work into it? I am trying to understand the line between encouragement on the part of a 'coach', some of which is rar rahing, and coersion.

Does encouraging and pep -talking the full practice mean he's coersive? Does your child think he can build staminia over time? How far do they have to run? Is it a set time period that they run, or is a set course? What happens if they walk the course? Did the coach share that building up staminia is something one as to work at? Does your ds just not want to run?

What exactly did the coach say and how? I can't know if he was being a jerk or not. I don't think I would feel comfortable as a coach (if I were to lose my mind and become one ) letting a child play without warming up. Ime, that's not safe. Would it be coersion for me to encourage the child to complete a full practice? Would it coersive if I said "You can do it. I know it's hard, but it will get easier".
post #32 of 161
I always use a meal metaphor when dealing with group / structured activities with my kids. I explain that joining an activity is a little like going to someone's house for a dinner party. Yes, you're welcome to your needs and expectations, and yes, you are perfectly entitled to not like what's on the menu, but no, you can't tell them when you arrive that you're only going to eat grilled cheese. It's perfectly okay to not be hungry for anything ... but in that case don't ask for a meal -- that's a waste of resources and it's rude when you don't touch your meal and then dump it in the trash.

So it goes for activities. It's okay not to want do what your piano teacher asks you to do ... but it's rude and wasteful of her time to go there every week and order a 'learning meal' if you're just going to toss her instructions in a metaphorical trash container. Decide ahead of time whether you're willing to do the honourable thing and do your best with everything that's served ... or else decline the meal (i.e. drop piano lessons). If you don't have a clue what the meal will be like, try to check out the style of meal beforehand by watching the activity in question and talking with the leader about your expectations and theirs. If you can't do that, consider the possibilities and make a best guess about whether it will suit you, and be prepared to back out gracefully if it's not to your liking.

This is especially true of volunteer-run activities, because the teachers / coaches / organizers are in essence giving a gift of their time and energy. And it's especially true of activities which are large-group and team-oriented (where one 'meal' is being cooked for a large group). In these instances it can be particularly rude, unrealistic and/or disruptive to not accept what's given as it's given.

"It's perfectly okay not to like tomato sauce," I often tell my kids, "but in that case don't order pizza."

Miranda
post #33 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourlittlebirds View Post
Nobody want to talk about the RU aspects of this? Or the monopolization of a schooly approach to kids sports? Really?
I will and I am not even a radical unschooler. I refuse to enroll my kids in the team sports here at our rec center because they are so darn serious. There is no fun left in the game. Yes competition is fun but some kids just want to have FUN. They don't want to be dropped from the team if they miss one practice. Its all about win, win, win. Get better, run faster, work harder so we can win! What happened? As a parent I do not want to go to mandatory practices 4 times a week and games twice a week! This is for 7 year olds BTW. I want her to learn the rules of the game, run around and play, laughing and smiling with other kids who are also laughing and smiling and enjoying themselves. I am not saying that kids in organized sports have no fun just that its so serious a lot of the time.

kids are needing me and I have not had a chance to re read this so it may not sound right.
post #34 of 161
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by UUMom View Post
I am just not sure what you mean by that.
And I'm not sure what you're asking me to clarify, but I'll try. I mean that team sports in our culture are a very hierarchical highly-managed dogmatic affair. There are very specific standardized things you must do, in a specific standardized way, when you're told to do it and for how long. In that way it's very much like school. You do what you're told, you don't question it. It's not cooperative. There's an inherent inequality of power. Now, obviously a lot of people like that, and I have no problem with that. It's frustrating to me that it is regarded as the default so that there can be absolutely no flexibility (between coach and player, anyway; obviously different coaches have different ideas about what dogmatic assumptions must be obeyed.)

I'm not saying people shouldn't be able to play sports that way. I'm not saying they have a responsibility to do it our way. I'm just wanting to talk about this assumption that team sports just are this way, or that they should just be this way, so that anyone who steps outside of that even just a little bit is seen as inherently wrong.

It's also frustrating to me when in any setting children's feelings are not respected, and having just experienced that in a sports setting, where it's very common, I was interested in talking about it with others who have experienced it in that setting.

Quote:
Encouragement/harrasmment/coersion are not the same.
No, no they're not. That's why I put the word "encouraged" in quotation marks. The coach would have said, and maybe even believed, that he was only encouraging my son. But to continue to not accept "no" for an answer as it pertains to personal autonomy is disrespectful, even if you think you're right. I would consider the coach well within his rights to say, "Well, I'm the boss here, and if you're not going to do things my way you will have to leave." I do not think it is within his rights to continue to try to get someone to do something that feels wrong to them.

Quote:
Team sports might be wrong for some kids, but they are optional. We tend to just call up a few friends or meet at the park and that works well.
Team sports are right for my child. But yes, this particular approach to team sports is obviously not right for him.

Quote:
I didn't hear the coach , his tone, or his disrepect-- and I also not sure wanting the kids to warm up is a sign of disrespc.
I didn't say it was. Again, again, again, I have no problem with warming-up or believing it valuable. The coach's beliefs about that have nothing to do with my son, they are not a personal affront to him, therefore they are not disrespectful of him. What is disrespectful is to not take a child's "no" seriously, and to continue to put pressure on him to just do what he's told. The coach's answer at this point ought to be "okay", or "is there a compromise we could come to that we'd both be comfortable with?," or "I'm uncomfortable being responsible for you when you won't do what I believe is right, so I can't be your coach." Those are all respectful responses.

Quote:
I would want my child (if she did an organized sport) to be safe. To me, that does mean warming the body beforehand. I know you don't want to talk about this part of it anymore, but I can't see why warming up as part of the program is bad. How long is the run? Are the kid able to manage or is it extreme?
Well, since you ask so nicely. Now get prepared for a book.

Again, I didn't say that warming up is bad. The kids are warming up even before practice starts, jogging back and forth catching the frisbee. They also do stretching and warming-up drills, using the same types of movements that they'll be using in scrimmage, only lighter in intensity. I don't think doing a special warming-up regimen is necessary as long as you don't jump right into hard play, but as I said before their bodies intuitively know that, and they don't do that. So I don't have any fears about them getting injured due to sudden extreme exertion of cold, contracted muscles.

I don't think my son's aversion to distance running needs defending. His very real distress at feeling pressured to do it when it feels wrong to him is enough for me to consider his declining to do it to be valid.

But I know that people who are runners often don't understand it why anyone would have an aversion to it outside of being lazy, so they assume it must be that. I'll try to explain.

I won't try to get into the science of it, because I would only be parroting what I've read, I don't really understand how it works. I was just reading an article on lactic acid, about how for years athletes were told it was the reason for muscle burn-out and now that appears to be wrong. I don't want to fall into that trap, for instance talking about slow- and fast-twitch ratios in regards to distance running and sprinting (which serve what.) The important thing is, like muscles becoming fatigued is a real phenomenon, so is (I believe) different body types being better or worse suited for certain activities. That can be changed to a certain degree, but there is certainly a genetic starting point that is different for everyone and which determines how far you can reasonably go with a particular activity.

Which I think explains why two of my children with completely different body types, being raised in the exact same environment and doing the same types of activities (riding bikes, swimming, gymnastics, tennis, etc.) have such different strengths. My daughter is a natural distance runner. She runs only occasionally, certainly doesn't train for it, but when she does it's easy for her, and it feels good to her. Her body moves like it was made to do it -- even when she was a toddler people would comment on her beautiful form.

My son lurches around and struggles to keep going. He has difficulty regulating his breathing. It's not a pretty sight and he's clearly suffering. He can, however, sprint for short distances, stop, then sprint again fairly well and do this for quite some time.

As I mentioned earlier, my husband (who is a skilled athlete) and I have trouble with sports in which you're constantly having to be moving. When I played soccer, I was great as fullback, miserable as forward. Spurts of energy. I'm a pretty good (and competitive) racquetball player, if I do say so myself. I can walk for ages over hill and dale. Plenty of endurance. But I'm not a runner, and I think I'm qualified to say that, having tried to be one for a long time. I ran three miles a day, I did longer distances on weekends, I ran races. It never got easier. It never did not feel miserable. I had this notion, which I think most people do, that I just wasn't trying hard enough. But I did try. And my legs never stopped being rubbery and shaky, my chest and throat never stopped hurting, my joints never stopped hurting. And then I'd go kick my boyfriend's butt at racquetball and have plenty of energy and drive to spare. Sure my muscles might get a little sore and I was breathing hard, but it wasn't hurting hurting.

So yeah, I believe my son when he says that it's hard enough on him that it's taking away from his enjoyment of playing the game. And I know perfectly well that it's not necessary for him to be able to play the game safely.
post #35 of 161
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by UUMom View Post
I don't think I am a person who never speaks up lol or says ok to people harming my kids. I am trying here, I really am.
I wouldn't assume that. I was responding specifically to someone who found it "mind-blowing" that I would speak to the coach about something my son is uncomfortable with, after my son has already tried to talk to the coach himself about it.

Quote:
Does encouraging and pep-talking the full practice mean he's coersive?
No, and I didn't say anything about that. I specifically said that what I find coercive is not taking my son's "no" as a no and continuing to pressure him to do something he has already expressed distress over.

Quote:
Does your child think he can build staminia over time? How far do they have to run? Is it a set time period that they run, or is a set course? What happens if they walk the course? Did the coach share that building up staminia is something one as to work at?
I think my previous post explains why this doesn't matter.

Quote:
Does your ds just not want to run?
By "just" I assume you mean it's not valid. I don't know how to answer this question, because I think my son not wanting to run is valid. Period.

Quote:
What exactly did the coach say and how? I can't know if he was being a jerk or not. I don't think I would feel comfortable as a coach (if I were to lose my mind and become one ) letting a child play without warming up. Ime, that's not safe.
Again, I've said at least a few times now that he's a nice guy and I really don't believe he's intending any harm. Again, that is not the issue for me at all. I addressed the safety/warm-up issue in other posts above.

Quote:
Would it be coersion for me to encourage the child to complete a full practice? Would it coersive if I said "You can do it. I know it's hard, but it will get easier".
If the child kept saying "NO" and you kept ignoring that until you got him to do it, yes. Absolutely.
post #36 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourlittlebirds View Post
I





If the child kept saying "NO" and you kept ignoring that until you got him to do it, yes. Absolutely.

How many practices have there been? How long is the run? I get that it's hard for him. Have you talked to him about warming up in a different way-- maybe walking fast instead? Is the coach against walking the warmup? Does your child want to quit? How does he want to warm up?
post #37 of 161
Thread Starter 
Thanks so much, Greenthumb, I appreciated you sharing your story and the supportive words. You too Allison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4evermom
But what is funny (to me) is that what I find scary about them are what other people assert is a positive. For instance, one of the homeschoolers on a yahoo list mentioned how great one place was because if a kid wasn't doing well in school and at home, they weren't allowed to test for the next belt. They asked the parents whether the kid was behaving well enough at school and home to test. Another person emphasized how great another place because it stressed Christian values. Then some of the websites talk about how they teach self discipline. Scary stuff.
Yeah, no doubt! Well, self-discipline is great, but a lot of people have a very different idea of what that's about and how it's achieved than I do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moominmamma
I always use a meal metaphor when dealing with group / structured activities with my kids. I explain that joining an activity is a little like going to someone's house for a dinner party. Yes, you're welcome to your needs and expectations, and yes, you are perfectly entitled to not like what's on the menu, but no, you can't tell them when you arrive that you're only going to eat grilled cheese.
Sure. But what if the hostess said, "you need to eat everything I tell you to," and when you said, "no, thanks," she continued to harass you about it? What if that were the norm? I'd find that hard to understand and deal with. I might simply avoid dinner parties (which, if I like dinner parties, would be sad,) or I might try to reason with the hostess and come to an understanding first. Not all conventions are good conventions.

Quote:
This is especially true of volunteer-run activities, because the teachers / coaches / organizers are in essence giving a gift of their time and energy.
I don't think that makes them beyond question, if what they're doing has a negative effect on others.

Quote:
And it's especially true of activities which are large-group and team-oriented (where one 'meal' is being cooked for a large group). In these instances it can be particularly rude, unrealistic and/or disruptive to not accept what's given as it's given.
Personally, I wouldn't be offended if someone declined to eat what I'd cooked. Or didn't want to participate fully in something I'd planned.
post #38 of 161
[QUOTE=greenthumb3;11535016

It sounds to me like you are giving him the opportunity to learn more about himself, what he likes, and the chance to challenge himself. Even if he decides this team and atmosphere aren't for him, he's learned a lot and it's very valuable. If he finds he learns to do the hard stuff, and he gets stronger, and there are aspects of being on the team that he feels good about, then he's learned he has internal strength and maybe the team is worth it. Good luck [/QUOTE]

That's why I wonder how many practicies there have been, and if the coach is coercive or encouraging to new players. I think part of the coach's job is to talk about buliding up in the beginning. To let kids know they can do it...if they can.... I think it's ok to give reasonable effort to the program as outlined, *assuming* the program makes sense and is respectful of young bodies and hearts. I still don't know if the coach is being reasonable and supportive to new players as they begin a new sport or not.

Believe me, I want to call him a coersive jerk. I do. I'm thinking the OP's dc wants to play on a team with a nice guy who is doing what he can to keep them safe. I am not an organized sports person, so inside I want to jump all over him. lol
post #39 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourlittlebirds View Post

I don't think that makes them beyond question, if what they're doing has a negative effect on others.


Yeah, I don't deal with programing that affects my children in a negative way. We've done hsing baseball and that was fun. We've also down some town sports when the children insisted. My youngest loves town soccer, fi.So far, it's been a very postive experience. It's instructional league, plus and very thoughtful and appropriate for young kids. She loves it.
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Originally Posted by UUMom View Post
How many practices have there been? How long is the run? I get that it's hard for him. Have you talked to him about warming up in a different way-- maybe walking fast instead? Is the coach against walking the warmup? Does your child want to quit? How does he want to warm up?
Your continued asking for details is making me wonder if you think I'm looking for a "fix". When I asked how others handled it, I was just curious mainly, and hoping to start a broader discussion about kids sports in our culture. I'm not looking for a fix for our particular situation. We handled it in a way I feel good about, I can't control the coach's attitude or beliefs, and at this point it really is just up to my son to decide whether it's worth it to him to continue to put up with the coach's harassment or accede to his demands in order to play on that team. I'm sorry that I didn't catch on earlier and clarify that.

But just FTR, he's played on this team for two full seasons now, starting his third. The run is around the school field, I'm not sure exactly how far it is. He tried walking mixed with running, but the coach would fall back and try to get him to start running again, which I also found obnoxious, but if the kids take too long to complete the run it holds up the rest of the practice. In the first season, it was a lot more relaxed, the coach has progressively gotten more strict and serious. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that he's very into the idea of getting the kids into tournaments and wants to make a good showing. He's lost a lot of kids, actually, it's not just my son having a hard time with this. I'm trying to figure out how to gracefully, without offending him, ask for a list of the kids who've dropped out, I'm betting they'd be interested in getting together to play without the pressure to achieve.
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