I was visiting my parents and... - Page 4

[RoadWorkAhead]

Originally Posted by laohaire

Well, ya just can't win for losing. I wrote up a nice, even post supporting both sides of the debate, and folks are "gobsmacked" by the idea that saving $150/month on cable, $1000/month on childcare, and $400/month on an extra car could possibly IN SOME SITUATIONS (remember, I said that) release the need for a second salary.

OKay, since the poster mentioned is someone I know locally, I can tell you that our cable company may screw us, but not that hard. If you go with the fanciest package available you're still under 100$/mo. ANd childcare? I know her DD is not at the "best" in town (Read as most expensive) as its on the opposite side of town from her, so she's paying 650$ or less I'd bet. The best here is 750$. SO when you take maybe 1000$ (figuring a more reasonable amount for their extra vehicle), no, it doesn't negate the average salary of a college degreed woman. Might not leave a huge chunk at the end of the month, but it doesn't negate it entirely. So for our area, where 2-2.5k is probably reasonable for most degree'd fields with some experience, its not unreasonable to recognize that in many situations its still not possible.

[gentlemango]

I could have chosen to stay home and received housing and food assistance if I wanted to, but I believed in the fact that I could work and not have to accept a handout and it taught my children that you can't always get what you want handed to you, but that you have to work for it.

I wouldn't be able to sah without government welfare health insurance for my kids (chip). With food and gas going through the roof we have had to tighten up everything and it's only getting worse. It's a crucial part of our values & lifestyle to have me sah.

Yeah. Welfare lets me be a sahm & I'm not afraid to admit it.

[dex_millie]

OP sorry your post got all over the place. I understand what you was saying. These type of threads people always get so defensive no matter how you explain it.

They took one line and got all mad about it. I saw the line different. Maybe the OP knew the people, maybe that is not exaclty what she says put just condensed it to put it in writing. The post didn't seem snarky.

Of course every situation is different she mentioned that.

[GoddessKristie]

Yes, Sydnee I like what you are saying. It's nice to know that you are aware that you have options and luxuries. It's sad to me when people don't see those things. I think it's wonderful that you WAH, and that you feel good about doing that so you can have other things you want. You sound like an aware, responsible, caring mother. I'm convinced you are doing what you know is best for your family and am glad to hear it's all working out for you!

[SusanElizabeth]

[Contrariety]

OP - I feel you!

I don't think you were being snarky at all... but I get that it taps the veins of mamas who would like to stay home but for whatever reason are unable to do so.

I have family who act like we are just so very blessed or lucky for me to stay at home with DS, but don't realize that we have made huge, HUGE sacrifices for it to be this way, both financial sacrifices and personal sacrifices. It has nothing to do with luck. It has everything to do with living simply, working hard to pay off debt, and making SAH parenting a priority.

I realize that certain socio-economical situations necessitate both parents (or single parents) working outside of the home, but I'm also willing to say that if people could/would let go of some of their materialistic ideals, a good majority of U.S. households could do just fine on one income. But the will and determination have to be there. It might mean only having one car, no X-box 360 and moving to a part of the country with a lower cost of living, but it's doable for many of those who think it's not (medical debt, single parents, etc notwithstanding, of course).

I makes me a little nuts when my extended family complains about not being able to stay at home with their kids (and how i'm so lucky because I can) when they are driving new cars, have every gaming system available, and take expensive vacations multiple times a year.

[gentlemango]

Wanted to add that I appreciated the OP. It made me feel warm & fuzzy that she's appreciated by her dh and her family.

We have made huge hard sacrifices to sah and most people look down on our choice. We are poor and people see us as not wanting to 'better ourselves' because I won't work.

[orangecanoe]

Originally Posted by GoddessKristie

This gave me great pleasure to point out that DH and I have been doing it for two years (our whole marriage). It was really funny to me because I don't think people look at us and think that we make sacrifices for that. ......
It really gave me a proud feeling to know that we don't stand out as disadvantaged to others. I like knowing that we fit right in as we all sit around the table and talk. When I meet people who say "you're so lucky that you get to stay home!" They never know until I tell them, and I always tell them they can do it too. .....

Just thought I'd share these warm feelings. Has anyone had similar experiences?

We are also a one income family, so I know it can be done. I, however, don't gloat with pleasure, pride and warm feelings that we're able to do so. That's really what jumped out in this post, not the actual one income vs two debate.

There are so many variations of circumstance that it really is simplistic to spout off that anyone else could do it too.

[SusanElizabeth]

Originally Posted by heatherfeather

We are also a one income family, so I know it can be done. I, however, don't gloat with pleasure, pride and warm feelings that we're able to do so. That's really what jumped out in this post, not the actual one income vs two debate.

There are so many variations of circumstance that it really is simplistic to spout off that anyone else could do it too.

I agree with heatherfeather.

[_betsy_]

Originally Posted by GoddessKristie

and I always tell them they can do it too

That's what I was refering to, back on the first page.

[tboroson]

Originally Posted by monkey's mom

I really hate the "luck" part of this.

Can you imagine telling a working mama, "Wow. You're really LUCKY to get a paycheck."

That's not luck. That's part of doing hard work and making sacrifices to get that check.

I can't stand the "if you only weren't so lazy, you'd be as rich as me" attitude. No, it's not luck that you get a paycheck for doing the work. It IS luck that you live in a place that has jobs readily available for you. It's luck that the job you are able to get is enough to pay the bills, and if you're really fortunate, maybe even a bit more. It's luck that your kid doesn't come down with leukemia, forcing you to take time off work or even quit your job to care for him, and run up massive bills on co-pays and deductables. It's luck that you don't get sick yourself. And the next door neighbor who worked like a dog her entire life, and went into bankruptcy because her husband died or her kid got sick or a tree fell on the roof and she had to put $40,000 on the credit card to replace it and repair the damages from the rainstorm? She's not in bankruptcy because she spent frivolously or failed to budget or didn't work hard enough or was in any other way inferior to you. She's in bankruptcy because she was just damned unlucky. And you know what? You (and this is a general "you", not specifically the person I quoted; I have no idea what her life situation is like) might end up like her someday too. Not because your employer stops giving you a paycheck for the work you do. Not because you suddenly become lazy. But because *your* kid gets sick, or you, or your husband; or because one of you loses your job; or because a tree falls on your house. Suddenly that superior attitude of, "Well, it won't happen to me because I work hard!" doesn't hold so much water.

[lalaland42]

Originally Posted by heatherfeather

We are also a one income family, so I know it can be done. I, however, don't gloat with pleasure, pride and warm feelings that we're able to do so. That's really what jumped out in this post, not the actual one income vs two debate.

There are so many variations of circumstance that it really is simplistic to spout off that anyone else could do it too.

: Especially to the bolded.

I don't like it when people judge based on cars, vacations, etc. Sometimes people who can't make it on one income have a second income that puts them into the 'very comfortable' range where they need two incomes and can have nice cars. It is not our place to judge other people's income requirements.

[GoddessKristie]

Originally Posted by GoddessKristie

...However, it was my hope that by presenting the idea to her that she could stay at home (so different than what society tells us), maybe she'd take an honest look at her finances and give it a second thought. ... my intention is only to make her really think. I do not assume to know her situation and I am understanding of those of you who honestly can not make it work.
What I say is exactly: "you can do it too." With a friendly smile. No one I have ever said this to has indicated any offence taken by it. Of course, when you add in " they couldn't possibly not afford it, they should just tighten their family belt?" That sounds a lot worse. But, it is all too often that people assume there is some kind of underlying negative, condescending idea when people say something.
I absolutely only mean to be encouraging, uplifting, and empowering by saying this to people.

Originally Posted by heatherfeather

We are also a one income family, so I know it can be done. I, however, don't gloat with pleasure, pride and warm feelings that we're able to do so. That's really what jumped out in this post, not the actual one income vs two debate.

There are so many variations of circumstance that it really is simplistic to spout off that anyone else could do it too.

Please understand that I did not create this post with the intention of puffing myself up or "gloating" it was meant to point out the strong influence of society. So strong, in fact that my own father forgot that I work at home because I don't live a deprived life. I merely included my warm feelings about it.

My point in telling others they can do it too is to ecourage them to really think about their situations and values. I have heard from many people who I know very well that they wish they could stay at home, and I have many times honestly felt that they could. It is quite rare for this to come up with a stranger, but when it does I always encourage them to think twice about it as it's obviously something they really desire. I don't feel guilty about encouraging people to achieve their dreams.

[Sonnenwende]

Originally Posted by GoddessKristie

I also wanted to say that we moved out of the 5th most wealthy (read: expensive) county in the nation to the next county over to afford our home. We ended up only 15 minutes from where DH was born and raised and we still feel just as close to family here as before. Because of this move DH drives an extra 20 miles to work every day. We are fighting to get him telecommuting, but he wont be able to until September.

If you are in Indiana, are you sure about that? I think Hamilton county one of the fastest growing counties in the US, but it is not the wealthiest by a long shot. I tried to google it, but didn't come up with anything.

[Alyantavid]

However, it was my hope that by presenting the idea to her that she could stay at home (so different than what society tells us), maybe she'd take an honest look at her finances and give it a second thought.

Do you really think it had never ocurred to her before you mentioned it? I mean, wow. I'm pretty most wohm who want to stay home have sat down and had an "honest look" at their finances.

We just decided to llive differently, cut back on as many things as possible (no cable, cell phones, new clothes, etc.) We have always been pretty frugal, but also enjoyed eating out, and taking spontaneous trips. We haven't been able to do those things for at least 4 years now.

It's hard at first to let go of a certain lifestyle, but so worth it (IMO) in the end.

These kind of statements just drive me crazy. "Well we did this and sacrificed so much and its so worth it" That wouldn't offend a mom would rather be with her kids than at work all day?

And of course no-one can mention their sacrifices and effort unless they are WOHM, since people are not permitted to ascribe any of their situation to anything but luck (though, again, they are still "gloating" even then).

Yep totally true. Same way you can't mention missing your kids without having a sahm say "well go have an honest look at your finances and you could stay home too"

I really don't care if a woman works or stays home. Do what you want and what works for you. But don't judge other people for making a different choice. You have no idea what all the reasons are behind their decision. And don't preach about how much better you are because you have a garden or don't have cable and that made you get to stay home. It doesn't work like that for everyone.

[CaliMommie]

Originally Posted by tboroson

I can't stand the "if you only weren't so lazy, you'd be as rich as me" attitude. No, it's not luck that you get a paycheck for doing the work. It IS luck that you live in a place that has jobs readily available for you. It's luck that the job you are able to get is enough to pay the bills, and if you're really fortunate, maybe even a bit more. It's luck that your kid doesn't come down with leukemia, forcing you to take time off work or even quit your job to care for him, and run up massive bills on co-pays and deductables. It's luck that you don't get sick yourself. And the next door neighbor who worked like a dog her entire life, and went into bankruptcy because her husband died or her kid got sick or a tree fell on the roof and she had to put $40,000 on the credit card to replace it and repair the damages from the rainstorm? She's not in bankruptcy because she spent frivolously or failed to budget or didn't work hard enough or was in any other way inferior to you. She's in bankruptcy because she was just damned unlucky. And you know what? You (and this is a general "you", not specifically the person I quoted; I have no idea what her life situation is like) might end up like her someday too. Not because your employer stops giving you a paycheck for the work you do. Not because you suddenly become lazy. But because *your* kid gets sick, or you, or your husband; or because one of you loses your job; or because a tree falls on your house. Suddenly that superior attitude of, "Well, it won't happen to me because I work hard!" doesn't hold so much water.

[GoddessKristie]

I guess it's time to update my stats! Hamilton county's median income is around $82,000 putting it closer to 14th according to Forbes.com

[GoddessKristie]

Originally Posted by GoddessKristie

Please understand that I did not create this post with the intention of puffing myself up or "gloating" it was meant to point out the strong influence of society. So strong, in fact that my own father forgot that I work at home because I don't live a deprived life. I merely included my warm feelings about it.

My point in telling others they can do it too is to ecourage them to really think about their situations and values. I have heard from many people who I know very well that they wish they could stay at home, and I have many times honestly felt that they could. It is quite rare for this to come up with a stranger, but when it does I always encourage them to think twice about it as it's obviously something they really desire. I don't feel guilty about encouraging people to achieve their dreams.

When did "you can do it!" become a bad thing to say to people??

[Belleweather]

Originally Posted by GoddessKristie

Thank you, jentilla. You understand me exactly. I think it is also a problem of society as a whole convincing people that "it's just not possible anymore." Often when I tell people that they can stay at home (as I said in the op), they take a second and get a look like "maybe I can, I've never really thought about it." It's my hope that these people go home and take an honest look at their situation and judge for themselves if they honestly can.

Originally Posted by GoddessKristie

When did "you can do it!" become a bad thing to say to people??

It's not the "You can do it!", it's saying "you can do it!" here. Let's be honest with ourselves -- people who are on MDC have really all thought this one through and arrived at where they are on the SAH/WOH spectrum because it's the best place for their family at this point in time. If your justification for starting this sort of thread is to get people to take an honest look at their situations, you're really preaching to the choir. Which isn't wrong per se, but you picked an unspeakably touchy subject to start preaching about.

Also, as far as smug SAHMs talking about how much they've sacrificed so they can stay home and how "worth it" it all is, I'm going to put in for a medal -- we don't have cable, cell phones, new cars, eating out or spontaneous trips, and I STILL work outside the home because that's what it takes to make ends meet. I pump BM to feed the littlest ones, earn a paycheck for the groceries and garden for the veggies, so if you want to talk about the "sacrifice-for-the-family" olympics, perhaps you're not such a shoo-in for the gold after all? (Honestly, I believe every mother deserves the gold, and it's not a race. But the smugness gets to me sometimes, you know?)

[GoddessKristie]

Originally Posted by Belleweather

It's not the "You can do it!", it's saying "you can do it!" here. Let's be honest with ourselves -- people who are on MDC have really all thought this one through and arrived at where they are on the SAH/WOH spectrum because it's the best place for their family at this point in time. If your justification for starting this sort of thread is to get people to take an honest look at their situations, you're really preaching to the choir. Which isn't wrong per se, but you picked an unspeakably touchy subject to start preaching about.

Also, as far as smug SAHMs talking about how much they've sacrificed so they can stay home and how "worth it" it all is, I'm going to put in for a medal -- we don't have cable, cell phones, new cars, eating out or spontaneous trips, and I STILL work outside the home because that's what it takes to make ends meet. I pump BM to feed the littlest ones, earn a paycheck for the groceries and garden for the veggies, so if you want to talk about the "sacrifice-for-the-family" olympics, perhaps you're not such a shoo-in for the gold after all? (Honestly, I believe every mother deserves the gold, and it's not a race. But the smugness gets to me sometimes, you know?)

In my op I was talking about telling people IRL that they can do it. I was not meaning here on MDC, but if anyone here on MDC needs encouragement I most certainly will tell them they can do it! I posted this here because I thought others would see the irony in my family not seeing me as disadvantaged, but thinking that one income families just can't make it these days. I posted it here because if anyone understands being economic it's MDCers on the F&F board. It seems that IRL people often just don't get that it's possible to live a good life on one income, but MDCers know differently!
(all of this with the caveat that it's not possible for everyone)