self-confident kids and attachment parenting

[mommy2caroline]

I know that one of the benefits of AP is that children have more self-confidence, supposedly. My 3 yo's temperament doesn't seem to jive w/ this. She is shy around others, and I am unsure of how to boost her confidence in herself since I was also a shy kid.

We went to the play area in a McDonald's today as we sometimes do on hot/col/rainy days so she can play and work off some energy. The last time we went, there was an older boy who grabbed her arm, which upset her. She asked if he'd be there today, in fact! She was afraid to climb up in the play area because other kids were in there. She's always been like this on an playground equipment - she takes her time getting up the stairs, and when other kids run past her, she gets scared. They are just being normal kids, running and being loud - but that intimidates her. She's gotten to the top of the play structure and sat there crying because other kis kept rushing past her. Today, a girl who looked about her age asked her if she wanted to climb up w/ her, and she wouldn't even look at her.

She also won't say please or thank you when somebody gives something to her, like a free sample in a store or when they give out junky toys at the library. Since she will talk to these people about oyher things typically, I thought she was being stubborn... so I told her rhat next time, she needed to say thank you or not get a toy/sample... and she declined both! So I think there is a real nervousness about using polite words with other people. But she won't even say please/thanks to her grandparents, who she is otherwise not shy with at all. She will say it to me and dh just fine. And she is very highly verbal for her age, too.

What can I do to encourage her to be less timid? I don't want other people to not like her because they think she's being rude, and I don't want her to feel like other kids are out to get her - she only wants to play on playground equipment if there are no other kids on it. I am trying to figure out if we did something wrong or if this is just her nature.

[Thalia the Muse]

I think a lot of that is just temperament -- but there might be things you can do to help her get more comfortable. Like, maybe practicing saying please and thank you with you, as a role-playing game, might make it easier for her to say them for real? Or maybe play dates with some gentle kids at home, one or two at a time, would get her to relax more around kids when she encounters them out and about?

[4evermom]

And a lot of it is just her age. My ds, not lacking in self confidence, went through a period when he didn't want to talk to people he didn't know. I just talked for him, said thanks for him, etc. And I role modeled saying please and thank you (saying it to him and dh all the time) so he picked up polite language. He got much more assertive with other kids around age 5 (figured out how to get a turn on things without my help).

[5in9years]

Temperament can't be changed by parenting style, but a child with this cautious, shy temperament could certainly be much more anxious if parented more distantly. IOW, you probably made things much easier for her by meeting her needs.

One thing I've seen some parents do, though, is feed into the fears. My 7yo is afraid of dogs. My mother's approach would be to force him to confront his fear-ie, force him to pet dogs until he's not scared anymore. Not cool. The opposite approach would be to make sure he is never exposed to dogs, asking anxiously if dogs will be present before accepting any invitations, etc. That could, IMO, lead him to believe that he really has something to fear from dogs. I try to take a balanced approach-if there's a dog around, I help him feel safe (hold his hand, help him find a route away from the dog) without reinforcing the fear-"The dog isn't bothering you. Just walk by him". He's an anxious kid by temperament, and I truly think a big factor in his fear was that when he was small, we visited my grandmother regularly. She had a (very calm and friendly) dog, and whenever I would get close to the dog with him, she would scream frantically for the dog to get away from that baby. I think he picked up the terror in her voice and, given his temperament, translated it into "all dogs are dangerous".

[LynnS6]

Give her time.

Our ds was very very much like that at age 3. we'd go to events or to places like a McD's playland, and he'd sit on the side and watch, or climb a bit, and then refuse to go down the slide (he was fairly skilled at backing down). He went trick or treating the first year without saying a word, and the second year only with saying "trick or treat" at a volume that only someone perched next to his shoulder could hear!

Things that helped our son (in addition to time):
1. Giving him a non-verbal option for social niceties -- waving rather than saying hello/goodbye. I wish we'd taught him the sign for "Thank you" as I think that would have been useful too.

2. Giving him lots of time to warm up - getting to events early before they got too busy, for example. Then he could warm up and get used to the idea.

3. Doing things with him. So climbing up in the $&* play structure, and coming down with him. Once he experienced it several times, he was sometimes (not always) ready to try it himself.

He's now 7. He's not a social butterfly but he will say 'thank you' even to strangers. When people ask him his name, he'll respond. He likes to play with other kids, but if they're doing something he's not interested in, he's fine going off by himself. It took him until he was 7, but he's finally able to go ask the neighbor kids if they want to play. (Dd was able to do this at 2 1/2!)
He got on the school bus on his first day of 1st grade without ever looking back. (He'd gone to a private K on campus with me, so this was his first experience on a bus, and his first experience going to school without me right next to him.)

AP doesn't change your child's personality. What it hopefully does is make your child more comfortable with their own personality. I see this in ds. It just took a long time to see! He doesn't remember being timid or slow to warm up and doesn't see that as part of his personality.

[One_Girl]

Give her at least another year. My dd was like this at three, she would bury her face in my legs or demand to be picked up if someone talked to her even another child and she wouldn't even consider going into the playtube anywhere except the park even if I went in too. Just after she turned four that all changed, she wanted a lot more independence and she started talking to everyone and now we have the too friendly issue that we are working with. It just takes time and understanding because some of the benefits are long term benefits that are easy to lose sight of when things are frustrating.

[ma_vie_en_rose]

Originally Posted by 5in9years

Temperament can't be changed by parenting style, but a child with this cautious, shy temperament could certainly be much more anxious if parented more distantly. IOW, you probably made things much easier for her by meeting her needs.

ITA with this.

DD1 has a shyer temperment. I realize that is who she is, so I work with her on it. I don't make her feel bad for how she is reacting or force her to act differently. kwim

I have noticed that over the past year, we have started playgroups more and dance class and she is really coming out of her shell. She is gaining a lot of confidence in herself when she is in new or different situations. She is still cautious, especially in McD type places in just the way you describe. That's her, though, and I can't say that I blame her because kids are rough there. She much prefers bounce places when it is less crowded.

[mommy2caroline]

Thanks, everyone. I guess she just needs more time. She really has started to come out of her shell more in the last 6 months or so as far as talking to other people goes. We just went on a walk and stopped to talk to a neighbor we'd never met before, and after a couple minutes she was asking him where his kids were, and she even started being goofy (he said his wife is a teacher, and my dd has this joke that teachers don't have cars because they live at school, so she was telling him, "Teachers don't have cars!"). But she wouldn't ask him if she could pet his cats when I suggested it, probably because she didn't want to say "please." It's like she doesn't want to make that personal connection that politeness might imply... or am I being too lenient there and she's just being stubborn?

At what age would you expect a kid to say thank you, say, when trick-or-treating? Although I was shy myself, I always remember saying it then. I'd feel kind of embarrassed taking an older child, say 5 or 6, who wouldn't say thank you. At what point do you draw the line?

I liked the idea of letting her do the thank you sign, and we talked about it, but she said she was too shy to even do that. I did ask her to make the sign for "sorry" as I explained to the librarian that she accidentally ripped a book, and she did it, but she was down behind the counter and so I guess she felt more comfortable because they couldn't see her well. She said she doesn't want to say hi to my grandparents or brother's fiance tomorrow when we see them (and I hadn't told her she should say hi to them - she came up w/ this on her own), so I suggested she could wave instead, and she said she'd wave at them while they were still in their car.

I have gone on playgrounds w/ her a lot... it's harder to do now that I have a four month old. I guess I could still climb in the playplace thing w/ baby in the sling!

I guess if she made no progress on this in a year or two, I'll worry about it then, but keep encouraging and working w/ her on it.

[VijayOwens]

Three is still very young. My oldest just turned 5 and only in the last year, year and a half has she really come out of her shell. It's beautiful when they get to do it in their own time and in their own way instead of being rushed. I know it's hard sometimes to see other kids just jump in with both feet when your own kid doesn't, but some kids just aren't like that... and that's... okay. (Stuart Smalley anyone?)

-Vijay

[forrestguy]

This brought up a memory from my past. I was very shy like that and wouldn't say please and thank you to strangers not because I was being stubborn but because I felt embarassed. My family made a huge deal of please and thank you and somehow I felt embarassed about it.
I do think that this sounds like normal 3 yr. old stuff, though. She's really young.

[One_Girl]

My dd still needs to be prompted to say please and thank you when she gets distracted, I don't feel embarassed about it because she says it a lot and I know that she has just gotten distracted and needs a prompt. Modeling and being polite to dd have worked very well for teaching manners. There are things that your dd will probably do that will humiliate and embarass you a lot more than the manners thing so try not to worry. Part of being a parent is living through and surviving embarassing moments on rare occassions when someone rubs your face in things but you really can get over that and move on.

It may help if you don't mention shyness or even try to put any pressure on her to come out of it for a few months. Sometimes kids resist when they feel like there is to much pressure and for a young child even a small amount of pressure can be to much.

[sacredmama]

My friend is the mother of identical twin 11 year old boys. Raised exactly the same way; AP, homebirth, extended BF, nonvax, noncirc... one boy is self confident the other is pretty insecure. AP does not always = confidence.

[mummy marja]

I think possibly the issue with saying 'please and thank-you' is not making a connection with people--because she obviously knows how to do that--by making jokes! I think it's the formality of saying thank you and please. Formal situations and words are extremely difficult for a highly sensitive kid. When I was a kid, even up to teen years, I would be uncomfortable going out for dinner because I was supposed to thank the host afterwards. I always would, but it almost ruined my dinner many times--I dreaded it. A better option would have been for my parents to talk about why we say thankyou--it makes people happy! That's why. And then left it at that. Maybe I would have found another way to accomplish that goal--maybe saying, while eating, "this is so good!" would have been just as good as saying thank you.

By the way, I know a family that is absolutely polite in word. Always say please, thank-you, may I, call me Mrs. ___. But they do it because they HAVE to, not because they feel it. I'd MUCH rather get a real smile from a kid than a forced thank you.

[tubulidentata2]

I was quite shy growing up. I recall working retail and being terrified to make small talk with people (I had been working with the public since I was about eight, so this certainly wasn't from social isolation). It wasn't until I saw a boyfriend do it so confidently at 17 that I was able to ask a simple, " How are you doing?" It took me years to converse like a normal person!! I think it would have happened much sooner if I had more parental support. I can totally understand feeling too shy to say "please" or "thank you". I just needed lots of modeling before I felt comfortable with many social interactions.

If it helps any, chimpanzees don't venture more than five meters from their mothers until they are three years old. Being independent in the world at age three isn't necessarily right or wrong; it is just right if it fits that particular child's temperament. At this age, I don't think shyness is a guarantee that she will be shy forever.

For my clingy DD, I am finding that teaching her ways to handle her particular stress helps. For example, when at the playground, I told her that she can flatten herself against the side rail if big kids are trying to shove past her. This eliminated a lot of screaming while at the playground . She looked pretty impressed by that simple tool, and it never occurred to me that she would need to be told that. Recently, she also developed her own tool for dealing with kids touching her (she hates to be touched). Instead of screaming, she kisses her "wounds" from where they had touched her :. There are some other great recommendations in this thread. I also find that lots of validation helps her to know that I empathize with her.

s mama. I know it is tough not to worry, especially when you were shy and hope for your DD to have more confidence.

[mommy2caroline]

Originally Posted by mummy marja

I think possibly the issue with saying 'please and thank-you' is not making a connection with people--because she obviously knows how to do that--by making jokes! I think it's the formality of saying thank you and please. Formal situations and words are extremely difficult for a highly sensitive kid.

I wasalways really shy about talking to people (adults) on the phone when I was kid. It just felt intimidating.

My dd is also nervous about saying certain people's names... certain relatives especially. My brother's fiance is "you" or "her" or "Uncle Mike's friend," but today my dd is stuck to her like glue! Yet she refuses to say her name! And my parents are "Muh" and "Puh" even though she can sat Gramma and Grampa. She says she's too shy to say the whole name.

[mommy2caroline]

Originally Posted by tubulidentata2

when at the playground, I told her that she can flatten herself against the side rail if big kids are trying to shove past her. This eliminated a lot of screaming while at the playground . She looked pretty impressed by that simple tool, and it never occurred to me that she would need to be told that

I will explain this to my dd - what a good idea! Thanks!