GDing the Explosive Child - Page 6

[amydidit]

I haven't had a chance to read through this entire thread yet, but I really think this might describe my DD2. She's 3.5, has been showing some signs of sensory issues (I have many, so that doesn't surprise me) and what little I have read in here sounds like you all have been hanging out with DD everyday.

[Bethblas]

This thread is awesome. Thanks for all the suggestions. I have the book on hold at the library and I can't wait to read it.

[Deaner]

Help! I have two chronically inflexible adolescents

. I actually am just beginning to digest all of the information I have been collecting while trying to find some answers to two of my four daughter's struggles of self-control.. I am beginning to lean toward a diagnosis of Chronically Inflexible child for one or both of them. My 16 year old definitely has the explosive aspect of CI along with the inflexibility.. I am feeling guilty because I am well educated in the field and have worked with children with developmental disabilities, especially autism and never connected that my own children may be struggling with these types of disorders.. Some of the techniques I had been taught to modify behavior were actually harmful when applied to my daughters condition...I feel like I am back to square one and WAY behind the eight-ball...I am looking forward to reading "The Explosive Child" book. Since this is all so fresh I would appreciate any thoughts or encouragement I can get!

[FluffiB]

I forgot about this thread. Thanks for posting!

An update on my explosive 4yo. We de-yeasted which made his explosiveness pretty much a thing of the past (as long as he was fed well). But the yeast came back in a month and so did his behavioral problems.

Biotin in high doses is said to prevent yeast cells from taking on a more harmful fungus form, so we started that, and I switched his antifungal to Candex, just 1/4 capsule on an empty stomach. Within a day he was so calm and pleasant to be around.

Another thing we're working on is controlling his blood sugar. I just found out I'm deficient in chromium, and I have reactive hypoglycemia, so started supplementing. He's also a bit deficient, so I started supplementing also. He is so out of control when his blood sugar is low, and it's hard to get him to eat protein, and he sometimes refuses to eat, which makes it really hard. Hopefully chromium will help that.

All this info I got from various yahoo groups including autism groups. I had a hair analysis test done, and he was high in arsenic and mercury. We made diet changes (no more seafood) as well as some other changes, and he seemed to have flourished since then.

I've also been receiving NAET treatments (allergy elimination). I had my 4yo start on it too, except my practitioner just got BioAllergenix machine that performs treatments a lot faster. He just got treated for milk yesterday, and he was a soooo compliant last night. He even fell asleep while I was reading to him, which he has never done before. Yes, sleep is one of the biggest challenges here.

I know a lot of autistic and kids w/ mild autistic symptoms like SPD and ADHD do well on GFCF diet. I've always suspected my 4yo had milk sensitivity as he was allergic to milk as an infant. He outgrew the obvious allergy at 2, but I've heard over and over sensitivities can cause behavioral problems.

[darien]

Subbing!

Could anyone take a look at my thread about explosive ds and dp, in PaP? Please.

[umami_mommy]

we are having a very interesting conversation on the yahoo consensual living list about diagnosis and oppositional defiance disorder.

[MayLibertySprout]

Hi.
Has anyone heard of, read, and/or used the "Kazdin Method for Parenting the Defiant Child" by Alan E. Kazdin ?

We are using it with my sons new therapist, whom I liked immediatly (and we've been through a lot!).
I really haven't had a chance to more than skim it. It comes with a DVD too, which she said is only about 20min and gives the basics. You'd think I would have had time to watch that at least! Not yet...anyway she did give me the basics of it. Basically it is about commiting to positively reiforceing the behaviour you want. We have just been loosely useing it for about a week and I swear it is having the best effect on my son than anything I've ever tried!! (and I have read the book and went to a "The Explosive Child" workshop too-years ago)

I would really like tho know if anyone else has experience with this method...and so far I highly recommend it too...like I said I haven't really even read it, but so far so good!
It definitley fits GD!

( just FYI DS 11, has been diagnosed with HFA,ADHD,ODD,and has XYYsyndrome.)

[HeatherRenee]

This thread is a little old, but I am soooo happy to see it! My middle son has ODD (Oppositional defiant disorder ) and GDing can be so tough some days... I just needed some support and guidence... Some days (bad days) just make me want to pull my hair out. I will be looking into that book... and if anyone has suggestions I am OPEN! LOL... I need as much help and support as possible!

[Magella]

HeatherRenee, one thing I would suggest is that if you haven't already, it might be helpful to probe a little deeper instead of just accepting a stand-alone ODD diagnosis. ODD is really more of a symptom of other underlying issues. I heard one clinician compare a diagnosis of ODD to a diagnosis of "fever of unknown origin." A fever of unknown origin is still just a symptom, and without knowing what's causing the fever any treatments for the fever are likely to have limited effectiveness. Same with ODD: the diagnosis of oppositional defiant disorder describes a cluster of symptoms, and there can be many causes for that cluster of symptoms. The more you know about what else is going on within your child, what factors lead to those symptoms, the more effectively you can help him. Many people recommend a thorough neuropsychological evaluation to help pinpoint areas of difficulty for your child.

My dd received a diagnosis of ODD. She also has Tourette Syndrome, generalized anxiety disorder, and a general difficulty learning social/emotional skills needed for tolerating frustration and being flexible/problem solving (something for which there is no diagnosis)--all of which are what lead to the ODD behavior. The ODD is a symptom of her difficulties. It's the red flag letting us now something is up. When we addressed the other, underlying, things, we saw a huge decrease in the ODD behavior.

The Explosive Child by Ross Greene and Treating the Explosive Child by Ross Greene and Stuart Ablon are great books. There's some great info at www.thinkkids.org. The Foundation for Children with Behavioral Challenges has a nice, but slow, message area and some good information-all related to the approach from The Explosive Child (for now it's at http://www.fcbcsupport.org/ They have merged with ThinkKids, so there will be changes coming up for this site). You may also find some helpful information, and more on the whole issue of ODD as a symptom rather than a disorder in and of itself, at conductdisorders.com.

Above all, take care of yourself so that you can take care of your child. If you ever need it, there's a book called Raising Troubled Kids that talks about how to care for yourself and the rest of your family while caring for your challenging child.

[umami_mommy]

i agree, ODD is a throw away diagnosis that means nothing really.

if a child *is* oppositional .. WHY?? there is always a reason. being oppositional isn't a mental illness. if you understand over responsive SPD, it makes perfect sense that a child is always in opposition to whatever is happening. instead of a made up diagnosis, how about try to understand and meet the child's needs?

i hope i am not being offensive, i just find this Dx a load of crap and it usually comes from the schools and their inability to deal with kids who just won't conform.

there was an excellent discussion on the yahoo CL list a few months ago about this.

[HeatherRenee]

Originally Posted by umami_mommy

i agree, ODD is a throw away diagnosis that means nothing really.

if a child *is* oppositional .. WHY?? there is always a reason. being oppositional isn't a mental illness. if you understand over responsive SPD, it makes perfect sense that a child is always in opposition to whatever is happening. instead of a made up diagnosis, how about try to understand and meet the child's needs?

i hope i am not being offensive, i just find this Dx a load of crap and it usually comes from the schools and their inability to deal with kids who just won't conform.

there was an excellent discussion on the yahoo CL list a few months ago about this.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I had to put my son's whole medical history on here, to get help for one part of it.. And the fact that he is NOT in school, so it is NOT the school just throwing a "condition" at him... *sigh* anyway... Here is his info..

IC is 4 years old with ODD, SPD and ADHD. I was just looking for help on GDing him dealing with his ODD, since that is the part that makes it hard. (Because, as I'm sure your aware, children with ODD have problems with parents or adults who are trying to tell them to do something. Since IC is always messing with both his older and younger brothers, I needed help with Gently letting him know that it is not ok.)

[Magella]

I agree that a ODD isn't a very helpful diagnosis-and actually all diagnoses are generalizations that don't necessarily give us enough specific, helpful information about an individual child's functioning and needs (but they can be helpful in giving us a general idea, and pointing us in a general direction when it comes to how to help). I do think that what is called ODD is a cluster of serious symptoms that is important to recognize, though, and that it's important to address those behaviors while addressing the underlying issues (ime, imo). I think many schools lack the resources to effectively deal with troubled kids, definitely, but in my personal experience the Dx came not from school but from a very skilled clinician who helped us a lot (and who said "ODD describes this behavior..., and here's what else is going on, why we're seeing the ODD" not "here's the formula for treating ODD"). Fortunately, more and more clinicians understand that ODD doesn't stand alone. Understanding of children's cognitive and neurological functioning is improving, and that is a good thing.

[Magella]

Originally Posted by HeatherRenee

IC is 4 years old with ODD, SPD and ADHD. I was just looking for help on GDing him dealing with his ODD, since that is the part that makes it hard. (Because, as I'm sure your aware, children with ODD have problems with parents or adults who are trying to tell them to do something. Since IC is always messing with both his older and younger brothers, I needed help with Gently letting him know that it is not ok.)

You know, I don't think there's necessarily a one-size-fits all approach to these kinds of things. Personally, I really found the collaborative problem solving approach from The Explosive Child to be really helpful in working with my child. We combined that with overt teaching of social and emotional skills, and time out for aggression (which consisted of telling dd to sit in a chair in the same room we were in, until she was calm--which (along with other strategies) helped her learn to calm down, and also kept everyone safe).

One particularly helpful piece from The Explosive Child was the Pathways inventory (http://www.thinkkids.org/core/pathways.aspx) which helped us identify which skills specifically dd needed to work on in order to be less combative, defiant, and aggressive--to be more flexible, to be better able to regulate her emotions, to learn to problem solve, to tolerate frustration. Things like "separation of affect" (staying calm enough, while upset, to communicate and problem solve). Or like, she's a black and white, rigid thinker--and needed to work on learning to be more flexible. Or that she needed to be better at being aware of and communicating her emotions. And so on. It's worth looking at, and I wonder if some of the skills on the inventory overlap with ADHD (I have no idea, just wonder).

Also, special time helped--time that we had one-on-one, which was entirely positive. This helped us build trust and positive connection, which made it easier for dd to cooperate with us and allowed us adults to feel more positive toward her (which honestly, sometimes it's hard to do) which helped us in our interactions with her.

I hope you didn't take my suggestion of identifying other issues as criticism. It was meant to be helpful, as a btdt mom.

[umami_mommy]

Originally Posted by Magella

I hope you didn't take my suggestion of identifying other issues as criticism. It was meant to be helpful, as a btdt mom.

i agree, i wasn't being critical of you as a parent in the least and i think it's great you are here to try and deal gently with your child.

[brogansmomma]

Subbing. And I went online to amazon to check out the book and I think I may already have it (albeit unread as yet). I'll have to look when I go downstairs.

I've bookmarked two posts in particular (77 and 104) that I'm interested in finding out more about.

My son is almost 4.5. Last summer we went onto the Feingold diet and on entering Stage Two, did not notice any issues with any of the foods. We are no longer following that diet per se but continue to keep, to the best of my ability, processed foods, artificial colours, artificial flavours, and preservatives out of his diet and system. I have noticed a HUGE difference however there are still frequent behavioural issues. The "wow!" moment for me was late last summer. I was on the fence as to whether or not B himself was "growing out of" his behavioural outbursts or if it was partly food related. One day he got hold of a single Chiclet and within 30 minutes was back to the hitting, charging, kicking, spitting, angry behaviour that had been gone for nearly a week.

Anyway... I don't want to ramble on. Just subbing and very thankful to have re-found this thread.

[pitchfork]

So glad to see this thread active, it feels great to hear these discussions. My DS, 3.3 has many of these issues, and I am trying to get to the bottom of what is going on here. We are trying to get someone to REALLY help us figure out what role the sensory issues are playing and how to address them.

In the meantime, I don't know how to teach "separation of affect" to a 3yo, he really likes the collaborative problem solving when he can get to it, but becomes so hysterical (saying he just wants to break things or kick people) and trying to do so, that he can't bring himself to even deal with the problem. The only thing he can do to calm down is to change the subject after he has had a good long while to have the meltdown... Often if I "give in" and fix whatever it is he is wanting, he still can't calm down. DH and I like to say "he can't take yes for an answer" I usually just hold him loosely or sit nearby and tell him I am willing to listen to his feelings (as long as I am safe) and when he is ready we can talk about a plan.

Anyone out there have success with teaching/kids learning "separation of affect"?

[umami_mommy]

yeah, the meltdowns can be really monumental. DS had them from 18 months to about 3 years in a tremendous way. very gradually, they became shorter and less intense... but the frustration thing is very real. and the fact is, when my DS gets triggered it takes a *long* time for him to calm down. even if he *seems* calm, he's still in "the zone" and can explode/meltdown very very easily over the smallest thing. mostly at this age it's all about prevention, there isn't a whole lot you can teach them other than through modeling.

and it's impossible to separate sensory issues from personality. each inform the other.

[SleepyMamaBear]

Originally Posted by pitchfork

So glad to see this thread active, it feels great to hear these discussions. My DS, 3.3 has many of these issues, and I am trying to get to the bottom of what is going on here. We are trying to get someone to REALLY help us figure out what role the sensory issues are playing and how to address them.

In the meantime, I don't know how to teach "separation of affect" to a 3yo, he really likes the collaborative problem solving when he can get to it, but becomes so hysterical (saying he just wants to break things or kick people) and trying to do so, that he can't bring himself to even deal with the problem. The only thing he can do to calm down is to change the subject after he has had a good long while to have the meltdown... Often if I "give in" and fix whatever it is he is wanting, he still can't calm down. DH and I like to say "he can't take yes for an answer" I usually just hold him loosely or sit nearby and tell him I am willing to listen to his feelings (as long as I am safe) and when he is ready we can talk about a plan.

Anyone out there have success with teaching/kids learning "separation of affect"?

at almost 5 we are still trying to work on separation of affect. seriously.
today was HELL the past month has been hell. made it to OT once, instead of 5 times. missed our behavioral pads appt. i got SICKer, and lil sisis ill too. so many birthdays this month, none of them hers.
for her (and us) life is hell now

[umami_mommy]

how about having an "unbirthday" for her? birthdays are so hard in general. i clearly remember announcing more than once when i was little that i was changing my birthday so i wouldn't have to wait so long for it to come around!

i am amazed at how much better DS is when we swim regularly. the heavy work makes all the difference in the world for him. when we don't go, he's crazy. when we do go he is so much calmer. we don't have to go everyday even, just a few times a week.

[SleepyMamaBear]

hers is in July
with all the birthdays and parties and cake this month, the very LAST thing we need is another birthday, un or not.
she is included, she gets to help blow out candles, and pass out cake, and even decorate the cakes with my sister. she just cant handle a day dedicated to someone other than her.
plus i am really really sick, and will be for the forseeable future, and her sister has a nasty staph infection in her leg and is demanding one on one attention most of the time.
so she is having a really tough time with life. yesterday was one big day long explosion.
bah!