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GDing the Explosive Child - Page 5

post #81 of 140
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post #82 of 140
This is my son.

I like how they explain that learning how to deal with frustration is like any other milestone a child has to learn (like sitting up, crawling, walking, etc) and that children reach this point at different rates - and that those with other added issues (ASD/ODD/ADHD/etc) might need extra help with this.

I will have to read through this post at some point. The book was recently given to me by a friend in our home ed group who thought I could use it - she said it was very helpful for her and her some who has aspergers.

Though no official dx - my son has SPD and I suspect an ASD such as pdd-nos. The cause of a lot of his 'agressions' I know are because he can not process things like other children his age. He had not reached that milestone yet. And also, things 'hinder' it - such as being easily overwhelemed by crowds of people (twos a crowd for him! lol), loud noises, perfectionism in him (possible OCD - I have it - dx at 10 - so I wouldnt be surprised), etc.

What I hate and what bothers me the most ...and I know its my issue to deal with but it does leave me in tears at time - is the narrowminded ignorant society in which we live in. 'Nothing' is wrong with DS - he is just 'naughty' and 'manipulative' and I am just a 'permissive' parent who must have her hands full. Its funny because these same people will comment on how well 'behaved' DS is and how he must have just been born 'easy' when he is having a 'good day' (ie - not overwhelemed by the world he lives in). Sigh...
post #83 of 140
Ann - does he receive occupational therapy? This has helped my son with SPD. His tactile defensiveness lessened, his anxiety level is almost non-existent now, and he is generally a lot happier. He graduated after 6 months of going weekly for an hour.

Did he ever receive vaccinations with thimerosal (mercury)? It's actually not just mercury in the vax anymore - it's aluminum too that's neurotoxic. Toxins are also found in the air, water, etc. If you live near an industrial city like NJ, it could be due to arsenic. Fire-retardant chemicals in kids mattresses and clothes are antimony. You might find her site helpful to read:

http://www.danasview.net/

A few supplements might help too depending on his symptoms. Yeast overgrowth is a huge one since mercury interferes with your body's own ability to control yeast.

http://www.danasview.net/yeast.htm

Just deyeasting myself has eliminated most of my irritability and ADD symptoms (yes, I was officially diagnosed not too long ago).

It might also help if he does GFCF diet or take digestive enzymes.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/gfcfkids/

http://www.enzymestuff.com/

Eliminating artificial flavorings, colorings, hydrogenated fats (trans fats), and going organic is also helpful as the body will think these processed and artificial foods and chemicals are all toxic.

De-yeasting, going GFCF or taking enzymes, and eliminating processed foods have been shown to produce a lot of improvement.

It's a lot of info to take in. Oh, a really excellent book is Healing the New Childhood Epidemics: Autism, ADHD, Asthma, and Allergies. It's a biomedical approach to curing autism and the other 4-As. Yes, I have read a lot of people's testimonials that after they chelate heavy metals from their bodies, asthma and allergies disappeared too!

If you're really interested in learning more, join this yahoo group:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/
post #84 of 140
He does not get OT no (with no offical DX he wont - but this is something we are reassesing ourselves every year beause if I feel that getting a DX will help him, then we will go that painful route) - but we do do OT type things in our house. He is 'overly sensitive' to things - so its sometimes hard to try and thing of things to do with him as a lot of the OT stuff I have looked up in doing in your own home is/seems geared more towards those who are sensory seeking. But I have got myself books such as 'the out of sync child' etc (to help me come up with ideas of things to do in our own home) - and I do notice they help like the bach flower remedies do.

He recieved the first vaccinations. I do not know what was in them. I was ignorant as much of the population at that time. It was only when about 12 hours later after the vaccination when he started crying unconsolably for hours as he never has before in a high shrill sound like I have never heard from any baby before that I researched more into vaccines and we stopped vaccinating all together. I have been looking into using a homeopathic remedy for this. I swear to this day it was that vaccine that has made him the way he is - at least 'helped' to create him the way he is.

He doesn't eat 'crap' lol...I have not looked into supplements though. I have been giving that some thought. We also live out in the country (in England).

I have to say though, I am not sure I believe that you can 'cure' autism.
post #85 of 140
I actually read another of his books first, Lost At School, and am just starting The Explosive Child. This one is much more applicable to us since we homeschool but Lost At School is good too.

An interesting thing I find (among lots of interesting things!) is that he is also talking here about not just explosive children, but those who are implosive as well, "those whose inflexibility and poor tolerance for frustration cause them to shut down and withdraw." My oldest son does a bit of both, but as an introvert he does more of the latter.
Anyhow, I am finding the book very relevant and a lot of it reminds me of some tools my own parents could certainly have used too.

I'd love to write more but can't right now - thought had a moment but clearly I don't. As long as I don't explode too we'll be fine!
post #86 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by ann_of_loxley View Post
I have to say though, I am not sure I believe that you can 'cure' autism.
Dana has I believe 4 kids that she chelated and are all fine now. She even wrote a story that one of her kids was severely autistic that the doctor told her there is no chance that he will recognize his own mom and that she might as well put him in an institution. I don't know how many rounds of chelation it took, but he no longer has autistic symptoms.

The 4-As disorder book also has many stories of kids who have made a major turnaround.

The word "cure" is really just the word I chose to use because of lack of better words. Autism is really just a name for a collection of symptoms (just like ADHD, fibromyalgia, anxiety, depression, allergies, etc are). So by eliminating the symptoms by finding the cause and fixing it, you have "cured" the disorder. I should've said "eliminate autistic symptoms" instead of "cure" as "cure" is harder to believe for most people.

You can even google about Jenny McCarthy's son - he received biomedical treatments for his autism and is fine now. It's powerful stuff.
post #87 of 140
i believe mercury poisoning and autism are different things, though they can look very similar. one can be treated, one is how a person is hard wired.
post #88 of 140
Hi Mamas, I just wanted to chime in. DS almost 3 fits this category, and the excerpts I have read from the book make me want to cry. He recently tantrumed and cried til he was about to puke because I switched to my winter coat. Even as a small toddler he cried/tantrumed for an hour about turning out the light....chronically inflexible and low tolerance for frustration are a great description.

He is SPD, no vax at all, and he receives OT but it is not helping. The OT doesn't seem to really "get it"

We had a rough day today, he has trouble falling asleep, and today at naptime, tired as he was, he could not fall asleep and when I tried to hold him in my arms to help him "stop" which usually helps even though he cries, but today he started scratching my face and slapping and kicking me. It's horrible to admit, I feel so embarassed, like I am ineffectual at GDing him. Plus I hate being hit and was hit alot myself as a kid so it triggers me. I am doing well at staying calm, but am unsure how to set good boundaries, take care of myself in situations like that.

I usually say something like "I hear that you are really angry and I am listening to you but I have to be safe so I am moving over here" Today he had a meltdown because I took a 8" kitchen knife out of his hand. While he was tantrumming, I had a "validation breakthrough". Instead of naming his feelings, I said, with true enthusiasm, "Oh, I get it, you were really so excited to come and help me in the kitchen, and as soon as you got up on your stool and started to help, I took that knife away from you". He stopped in his tracks and looked at me with sincere relief. It didn't stop the tantrum totally, but he wound down from there. I offered options "Lets go buy the tomatoes I need and we can cut them together with the big knife." but he didn't want to. he eventually settled for nursing and reading in the "reading corner"

Support from other mama's with similar kids would be great. Thanks to the OP for starting this thread.
post #89 of 140
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitchfork View Post
It's horrible to admit, I feel so embarassed, like I am ineffectual at GDing him. Plus I hate being hit and was hit alot myself as a kid so it triggers me. I am doing well at staying calm, but am unsure how to set good boundaries, take care of myself in situations like that.
I think the ineffectual thing was the reason I started this thread. I really feel like GD is not working sometimes. I have been looking into ADD and many of the counseling places or Drs. talk about reward systems and punishment. I haven't found anyone doing the Collaborative Problem solving locally yet but I don't have the connections or resources I need yet.

DH talked to his teacher today and he will probably quit that preschool soon. Hopefully, he will have Early Education assessment soon but I know the wheels turn slowly. I really wouldn't persue this if I could afford to either stay home or send him to a school with very small classroom. I am also hoping it will connect me to good resources in the community.

I need to work really hard on the boundaries. I really don't do well with the anger. I need to remember that most of the time DS really doesn't have the control he needs. In the evenings, he really, is not thinking well at all.
post #90 of 140
So here's a question - do AP/UP (Unconditional Parenting) styles even work with explosive kids, or do they *need* a system of rewards and punishments, since the inherent, natural consequences don't seem to affect them?

Ann, that *is* annoying - if a child can be born with an easygoing temperament, then the can be born with the opposite!

DH had some success last night, using humour (I guess kinda like Playful Parenting, though we haven't read that book) - dd was having a fit, the kind that usually escalate, and she was telling him to "shoo! shoo!" while throwing stuff, and she had a sock in her hand. He replied, "Shoe? That's not a shoe, that's a sock!" and she started to giggle and it didn't escalate.

I have another question: sometimes when she won't obey our timeouts we end up carrying her to another room. She's 6. She's tall. Eventually this won't work, heck, it really doens't work now. It seems, according to AP ideals, disresepctful to carry her body, but I don't know how else to remove her, for the safety of everyone else.
post #91 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by InochiZo View Post
I think the ineffectual thing was the reason I started this thread. I really feel like GD is not working sometimes.
what does this mean "working?"

discipline means to teach or guide. many people use the word discipline to mean "control" "change behavior" "force to obey" or "punish."

what does it mean to guide a child versus "control" or "change behavior?"

for me, GD is about connecting with my child and fostering relationship. it is NOT about controlling or changing behavior.

if i am in relationship with a friend or family member and he/she doesn't act the way i want... do i say "this friendship stuff! it's just not working!"

what is my goal as a parent? the goal of GD (RU/CL in my case) is to honor, respect and guide my child in a way that allows his/her authentic self to emerge. even if i don't always care for his/her behavior.

with explosive children it's helpful to always remember, he/she didn't choose to be this way, he/she struggles with just about everything, and loving guidance and modeling go way further than punishments and control in helping them to cope.
post #92 of 140
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post #93 of 140
Pitchfork - I belong to several yahoo groups regarding other topics (mainly autism and mercury/heavy metal toxicity), and someone said vitamin B6 really helped her DD become more calm. She sounded just like my DS - he would kick, scream, hit, pinch, etc at bedtime. I do have my DS on multi-vitamins and calcium (we're trying to eliminate dairy), and a little bit of magnesium and vitamin C, and he has been a lot more calm lately.

It would very well be food intolerant. If you're not getting anywhere you can try eliminating all forms of dairy for about 2-3 weeks to see if anything changes. Then gluten, but it can take up to several months for all the glutein to leave the body, so you may not see results right away with this.

Do you belong to any SPD yahoo groups? This is the one I'm on. There are people that report OT isn't doing much. It sounds like in your case it's your OT. Or it's really dietary issue that is the underlying cause.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SID-DSI_AllAboutKids/

I do have to warn you that you might get advices on how to "discipline" your child, meaning changing his behavior by punishment and rewards (these never worked with my DS). So ignore those posts!

GL - my DS is almost 4.5, and as long as I keep him well-fed, he's mostly really good these days!
post #94 of 140
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybeedreams View Post
what does this mean "working?"

I guess I mean it is really hard! I feel like with DD GD guidance is much easier and guidance is not so phsyically painful and dangerous. DS will leave the house with the dog at 730 pm and walk down the street in the pitch black. We do not live in a nice neighborhood. He is 4.5 yr. This is just not safe. He does not respond to gentle redirection (finding something else to do), safety concerns ("Nobody will take me mama, I'll be alright."), physical redirection (he hits, kicks). Now I know that I can do collabortive problem solving but sometime he still is not ready to go inside after his agreed time is up. I feel like the GD stuff is great for most kids and cooperation comes much more easily. I think this thread is to help support how challenging it is for the parents of explosive children.

Last night DS was going to bed with DH and DD was going to bed with me. DD wanted to "watch" I was sick and just wanted to go to sleep. DS said, "I have an idea. Maybe you can find something in the middle. Why don't you watch first and then go to bed." DD was still crying when he went down stairs. As he left, he said, "You be sure and find something in the middle."

I refuse to believe that I need to do rewards and punishments with DS. Like the authors of the "Exploxive Child" I think, like you Honeybee, if they could cooperate and not get angry they would and they need teaching and training to work on this. I am in the middle of the video and it has been really good.
post #95 of 140
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FluffiB View Post
I do have to warn you that you might get advices on how to "discipline" your child, meaning changing his behavior by punishment and rewards (these never worked with my DS). So ignore those posts!

GL - my DS is almost 4.5, and as long as I keep him well-fed, he's mostly really good these days!
Food and rest work really well with my DS but like today DD woke him up too early.
post #96 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by InochiZo View Post
I refuse to believe that I need to do rewards and punishments with DS. Like the authors of the "Exploxive Child" I think, like you Honeybee, if they could cooperate and not get angry they would and they need teaching and training to work on this. I am in the middle of the video and it has been really good.
it is really hard! being a parent of SPD/explosive child is really really hard, esp. if you refuse to give into mainstream notions of parenting. imagine though how hard it must be on the other end. no one ever said parenting was easy, esp. good parenting. crappy parenting is pretty easy.

i believe because my DS struggles with so much, that he *deserves* MORE compassion, MORE patience, MORE commitment to consensual solutions, MORE unconditional parenting... not less. NEVER less.

but it is really really hard to find the joy some days. it helps when i just work on accepting him for exactly who he is, even when he does drive me bonkers, hits his father, screams at the baby and is his generally uncooperative, touchy, moody self.
post #97 of 140
wanted to share this blog post... it's about responding with joy even when your kids are acting in ways that are not very joyous.


http://perpetualjoy.blogspot.com/200...osing-joy.html

while it's primarily about not using please and thank you, but i think the spirit of it applies here. it's been bumping around inside me for a few days now. it says a lot.
post #98 of 140
Fluffib, I have tried magnesium, the liquid highly absorbable kind, no change at all. maybe this helps more with the mercury kids? I could try C, vit b6, how do you get that into a recalcitrant 2YO?

he was on no dairy a large part of his life when he was having these problems, and only has a small amount of sheep/goat dairy now. As for GF, I could give it a try, but he was EBF until 13 mos and exhibiting the same behaviors. Can they get gluten through the breastmilk? He is still nursing, do I have to go GF and dairy free too? DH is GF, so our household is often GF for stretches, that might not be so hard to try...and I guess the family history is a clue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by InochiZo View Post
He does not respond to gentle redirection (finding something else to do), safety concerns ("Nobody will take me mama, I'll be alright."), physical redirection (he hits, kicks). Now I know that I can do collabortive problem solving but sometime he still is not ready to go inside after his agreed time is up. I feel like the GD stuff is great for most kids and cooperation comes much more easily. I think this thread is to help support how challenging it is for the parents of explosive children.
This is totally my son! GD is so much harder with these kids, even though I can't imagine anything else is any easier. I am thinking long term here, I mean, I want to raise a child with problem solving skills, (like your DS Zoe! how cute!) and the ability to self regulate. Today when I told him the sound of him scratching his stick against the wall was bothering me (yes, I'm a bit sensory too) he said "Well, I need to do it and you don't like it, how can we work this out?" I suggested I go in the other room, he said no, I suggested he stop, he said no, I suggested I just listen to it, and I said no, then I suggested I sing while he do it, and he liked that. Soon he said he would sing for me while he did it and it a minute he stopped scratching anyway. At this point I give all the suggestions, but I think him asking the question is still great. He said it to my mother about something over the holiday weekend, and she almost fell off her chair! These are the good moments. A two year old who says "how can we work this out?"

Sometimes I worry that all the negotiating is just counterproductive. All my non SPD parents who UP, GD can use these skills and get their needs met on a regular basis. I have had DS tantrum because I had to stop playing to eat breakfast, as soon as we got through the tantrum and I started to get myself breakfast he started all over. This is with all kinds of problems solving in between, come and help me make b'fast, read book first, etc. etc. So some days (this is not infrequent) I have to go through multiple tantrums just to get food, a basic need...

I am going to give the supplements and diet changes a good think, and also changing OTs. DS was evaluated for CPSE (committee for preschool education) and she said his sensory issues were clearly evident. Perhaps it's time to request changing OTs.
post #99 of 140
This is DS too. To get him to leave the house.
post #100 of 140
Pitchfork - yes, you do have to change your diet too as food proteins will show up in breast milk too. I had to do a strict elimination diet when I was BFing my DS as I had no clue what he was allergic to!

Even goat's milk and such have very similar proteins to cow's milk, so you might have to go completely milk-free and use (fortified) rice milk instead. I don't recommend soy because half of kids allergic to milk are allergic to soy. And too much soy is really bad for hormones.

You can get kid-friendly supplements (hard to find) or get adult forms in capsules and sprinkle the proper dosage into cool foods (apple and pear sauces work great). I've crushed pills, added juice, and used a medicine dropper to squirt it into DS's mouth too.

kirkmanlabs.com has good variety of supplements in various forms, and they don't add too much fillers. Or you could go to vitacost.com and pick ones with the least fillers. Since he's still BF, I'm sure he's getting a lot of nutrients from you. But some vitamins are hard to digest in the body, so some people might need to supplement.

If you try vitamin C, try "ascorbic acid with rose hips" or buffered C. I'm not sure which B6 form is easily digested, so you might want to research that. I usually look up the RDA of a vitamin/mineral for an appropriate age group and also look up what's optimal as the RDA is a bare minimum that your body needs in order to not become deficient. And I look up food sources too.

I like this site because it lists everything I need except for optimal dose.

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...rient&dbid=108

You could always try digestive enzymes too, but that's another post!
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