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So, I'm being allowed to teach a finance class to middle schoolers..... - Page 2  

post #21 of 29
Teach them to never take out student loans for college unless they're really, really, really sure that they want to go. Familial/societal pressure can cost you thousands of dollars, if you decide later that you've made a mistake.
post #22 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama2Bug View Post
Teach them to never take out student loans for college unless they're really, really, really sure that they want to go. Familial/societal pressure can cost you thousands of dollars, if you decide later that you've made a mistake.

You know what's funny? The last few weeks of this school year, we had debates, and I assigned a few of my Honors students to debate college: to go or not to go? They were aghast at the idea of NOT going to college. Several of them misinterpreted my explanation of the possible benefits of not going as me saying that they shouldn't -- "Screw college!" one of my student shouted! -- when all I was saying was that they should look at both sides and then figure out whether or not it made sense for them. I had fun with all the white collar parents who called after that.... but really, it's something many of them have never thought of as an option. The blue-collar kids frequenty shrug and assume it's not for them, and the white-collar kids don't realize that there's no rule that says they have to go right after high school.
post #23 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanga1622 View Post
In high school I took an Accounting class with projects after each unit that really helped drive the points home. Basically, they gave starting information and then provided transactions that happened every day, week, month, etc. and we had to keep the books. We'd get little packets with fake checks for us to write but also fake checks that people gave us.

Could you do something similar with assigning (or letting them realistically choose) a job and income and then throwing life at them and having them figure out how to pay the bills, keep the checkbook register, fill out deposit slips, etc.? They would all get regular expenses like utilities, rent/mortgage, car payment, insurance, etc. but then they'd also get different expenses pop up like car repairs, doctor bills, vet bills, home repair, etc.
I had thought of doing something like this, but got sort of bogged down in the details. Do I assign them professions (and therefore monthly incomes) or let them pick? Or, do they draw them randomly out of a hat? It's as if there are actual philosophical implications to that one small aspect of lesson design. Yes, I tend to overanalyze things, LOL!

One other crazy idea: Make them pay rent on their chairs in class. Every student gets, say, $500 per month. Chair rental is $75/week. Buying a chair costs $350. That leaves them just enough money to make things interesting. It would only be a mtter of time before one of the kids realizes they can buy other kids' chairs and charge *them* rent...
post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by msjd123 View Post
You know what's funny? The last few weeks of this school year, we had debates, and I assigned a few of my Honors students to debate college: to go or not to go? They were aghast at the idea of NOT going to college. Several of them misinterpreted my explanation of the possible benefits of not going as me saying that they shouldn't -- "Screw college!" one of my student shouted! -- when all I was saying was that they should look at both sides and then figure out whether or not it made sense for them. I had fun with all the white collar parents who called after that.... but really, it's something many of them have never thought of as an option. The blue-collar kids frequenty shrug and assume it's not for them, and the white-collar kids don't realize that there's no rule that says they have to go right after high school.
I really think that more kids and parents need to know that there isn't anything wrong with waiting a year or - gasp- two before making such a big decision. I went to a very specific type of college (art school) immediately after high school. I graduated high school in June and was in a classroom again by late August. I hadn't been sure that I wanted to go, wasn't sure if I wanted to pursue that career choice, wasn't quite ready to be responsible enough to commit to a chosen field. My family, high school counselors and teachers though, pressured me until I signed the loan forms and was enrolled.

Two years later, I dropped out, because I hated it and didn't want to waste another penny on schooling I didn't want to use. Unfortunately, now I KNOW what I'd love to do and would like very much to go to school for it, but I can't- because I will be lucky if I ever pay off the thousands (mostly in interest at this point) that I owe from the first go round and I don't want to rack up any more loan fees in the meantime.

Totally OT question-

Does anyone know if you can be held responsible for student loans that were taken out when you were under 18? I was still 17 for my first year of college.
post #25 of 29
I would be surprised if you, specifically you, were actually loaned any money at all as a minor.
post #26 of 29

Awesome

Can I just say - this is AWESOME! I would love to have an opportunity like this. You're going to do great.

I would definetly hit on the points during the Spending Money Time with things like comparing prices, checking unit pricing, how stores expect people to shop and how knowing that can make you a better shopper (ie: the way the stock the shelves, position the merchaise in the store, change things around ocaasionally so you have to hunt for stuff and hopefully find other stuff to buy) shopping lost leaders, price matching, coupons (the good and bads of coupons - buying name brand = more $$ spent to save 30cents, verus buying when name brand is on sale with a coupon = good coupon!!), impluse buys, shopping with a list, envelope systems, budgeting - you had that one.

Also maybe have them look at big ticket kid items - Ipods, Wii, computers, cell phones, etc and figure out how many hours - based on their maybe baby-sitting rate or state min. wage rate - they would have to work to pay for it.

Idea: Cut out pictures from the sales flyers and then instead of leaving the price on it make it say "work 2 hours @ $7/hr." - Could be a project for them around christmas while they're thinking of what they want to ask for for Christmas.

Also having them create a budget & income / expense tracking sheets in excel or a money program. I remember at this age is when I starting keeping track of what I was getting paid for allowance, and delivering papers and what my total balance and then entered what I spent on stuff to know where it went.

Have them maybe do a project where they work with the parents to see how much stuff for their households cost. Make it a learning experience for the parents too - maybe some never created a budget. Have them list main catagories like water, electric, gas, mortgage/rent, cable, phone, insurance, loan payments, etc - that are fixed monthly and then have them list other catagories where money could be going - auto gas, groceries, entertainment, clothing, activities, pets, etc, etc, etc - I think this would be fun for that age to get involved with the household.

You can't leave out credit cards, pay-day loans, cash advances, and other predatory lending practices. Even car loans - things like GAP insurance.

Also student loans and du...du...dun... PRIVATE STUDENT LOANS.

How the FICO credit score works.

How credit cards can do whatever the want, what they want you to do - pay the min - so they make money, raise interest rates - cash advances, etc.

I love these and am so excited for you. I got to teach a budgeting / finance seminar to a group home for pregnant teens before - it was awesome - especially if they really are interested and want to learn.

The title of your class leaves something to be desired though - are you able to put a sub-title or session title in there someone - or is this a class that might be a requirement for some?

Good luck. You'll do great and when you need more ideas...we're here for you,
~Erin
post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by msjd123 View Post
I had thought of doing something like this, but got sort of bogged down in the details. Do I assign them professions (and therefore monthly incomes) or let them pick? Or, do they draw them randomly out of a hat? It's as if there are actual philosophical implications to that one small aspect of lesson design. Yes, I tend to overanalyze things, LOL!

One other crazy idea: Make them pay rent on their chairs in class. Every student gets, say, $500 per month. Chair rental is $75/week. Buying a chair costs $350. That leaves them just enough money to make things interesting. It would only be a matter of time before one of the kids realizes they can buy other kids' chairs and charge *them* rent...
That is a fabulous idea about their chairs! What a great way to introduce the concept.

For a larger project, I think you could allow them to look for jobs in the newspaper (as an added bonus they might learn some of the scam language posted in the classified section about "work from home" opportunities), then figure out a salary for that. Since you'd see the paper ahead of time, you could cut out some options and set up a salary ahead of time without telling them.

Then you could come up with say a basic amount of 4 or 5 living options based on your area prices to see how much of their income would actually go to rent/mortgage (after taxes, insurance, and retirement come out). I'd be interested to see how many of the students choose to live in a space similar to what they currently have or if they'd all choose to live in the most expensive option.

You could also make a rough figure on utilities for each unit (i.e., the gas/elec/water for a 1 bedroom apt is $75 a month, a 2 bedroom apt is $120 a month, a 2 bedroom house is $175 a month, a 3 bedroom house is $250 a month).

So really, you'd have a limited list of things for them to choose from. Perhaps have them choose their rental/mortgage option before introducing the concept of utilities, phone, cable, etc. It would mean a little set up for you at the beginning, but a lot less variability in the end. Then students could compare to each other how their money is spent since there will be a few kids picking the same options and then contrasting with the other students that chose less expensive options.

I think once they see how little is left at the end of the month, they might understand why iPods, Wii, etc. are not everyday gifts.

ETA: Thank you so much for taking this on. I work with graduate students that don't know a lot of these concepts. I'm always surprised that so many of them have no idea how expensive their bills will be once they have to start paying back student loans after graduation and are still paying off those pizzas they put on the credit card freshman year.
post #28 of 29
I don't have any extra suggestions, i think the ones mentioned are all great. I really wish i had a class like this when i was in middle school, and i think it should be a recquirement. I just took a class like this last semester, in college, at age 26. It was an eye opener, and i sure could have used some of the information, say, about 10 years ago.
post #29 of 29
What about one class a week on current financial news where the kids have to bring in news items to discuss? There are a lot of good headlines now and a lot of really important things happening in the economy.

I would do a detailed unit on why housing imploded and the choices individual homeowners made that cost them their homes.

Also, not just how to analyze a mortgage but who to get a mortgage from i.e. avoiding predatory lenders. Things like always checking the note and the mortgage to confirm the interest rate and loan amount match what you agreed to. Checking to be sure there is no prepayment penalty as well.

PBS has their documentary on CC online for free--that would be a great thing to watch. It's called The Secret History of Credit Cards. And it's not enough to tell people to read the fine print, they need to know that CC companies can change your interest rate at will and based on what you buy (i.e. there was a recent article where CC hiked interest rates for people who charged marriage counseling).

A discussion of the various investment vehicles would've been helpful for me. Frex, I'm learning a lot about gold and silver right now--all the stuff I never knew! As well as a discussion of bubbles, how to recognize one, how to avoid getting hurt when they implode.

Economics and math of grocery shopping--price comparison, unit price, how much does gas cost to drive across town for the big deal.

I like the idea of renting chairs to simulate what it's like to live on an income.

That's all I can think of now.

V
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