Healing The Gut Tribe! - Page 8

[BeingMe]

Me again. Can you tell I have adrenal fatigue....brain is so foggy.
I've been reading over the enzyme stuff site and all the instructions.
**Has anyone tried the great low-slow method?
According to the site I should start her with zyme-prime, then add afp, then probiotics(already on them), then candex or candidase, then a yeast killer such as GSE.
**Is this a good plan for a 28 month old, or too much?
And when I spoke with Dr. Houston he didn't mention no-phenol, just the zyme-prime and afp(to which he siad go with the capsule over the chewables because of the fillers, etc),
**Is no-phenol a better choice?
**And is there a difference in companies, is Houston better than Enzymedicaor vice-versa?
Thanks!!

[joybird]

Originally Posted by BeingMe

Me again. Can you tell I have adrenal fatigue....brain is so foggy.
I've been reading over the enzyme stuff site and all the instructions.
**Has anyone tried the great low-slow method?
According to the site I should start her with zyme-prime, then add afp, then probiotics(already on them), then candex or candidase, then a yeast killer such as GSE.
**Is this a good plan for a 28 month old, or too much?
And when I spoke with Dr. Houston he didn't mention no-phenol, just the zyme-prime and afp(to which he siad go with the capsule over the chewables because of the fillers, etc),
**Is no-phenol a better choice?
**And is there a difference in companies, is Houston better than Enzymedicaor vice-versa?
Thanks!!

We started ZymePrime (capsules) with meals and then added in peptizyde and nofenol (capsules) between meals. I didn't do peptizyde with meals because we are GF/CF/SF and it is mostly used to breakdown those particular proteins. Zymeprime is a good broad-spectrum enzyme. Later on we added Oil of Oregano or GSE with the Peptizyde and nofenol. We had great success doing this regime. My dd was 2.5 at the time and I know from researching that this much is fine for a 2yo.

NoFenol is not a broad spectrum digestive enzyme, it is only for breaking down certain fruits/veggies that are phenolic, but it also seems to work as a yeast killer if taken between meals. Houston's has another enzyme that I use for dd now and sometimes myself called ZyCarb. It is similar to ZymePrime except that it also has the equivalent of 1/2 cap of Nofenol. I use it if we are eating anything with grains or lots of carbs since it helps break them down. I think this formula was designed to sort of mimic the SCD, and you are getting the benefits of zymeprime and nofenol in the one capsule.

We use Houston's and Enzymedica both (Digest Gold for myself since it is a lot stronger). I'm not sure which is better but I like that the Houstons enzymes you can mix and match for whatever you're eating. I also trust Houston's because we saw such drastic results with them and he really is the top dog in enzyme therapy. If I had to choose I'd pick those. Although if you eventually want a stronger yeast -killing enzyme for between meals, I think Candidase is the way to go for that.

[srneda78]

I have a question about digestive enzymes -- maybe some of you nice people would have an idea about this.

Anytime I have taken digestive enzymes, I have gotten really ill. I at least get a severe stomach ache and then usually vomit once or twice. I tried Candex and the same thing happened, except in an even more severe form (vomiting for hours). I take probiotics regularly and have no problem. They have helped my gas/bloating/IBS issues, but I wanted to try to address the underlying causes (possible yeast, leaky gut, etc). But I cannot seem to tolerate digestive enzymes. I have tried low potency, high potency, and protease-free. I still react to them.

Does anyone know what is in them that would make me react to these? I have tried to find stuff online for the last year, but have been unsuccessful.

Thanks in advance.

[LauraLoo]

ChangingSeasons --- I know this is a really elementary suggestion, but anytime a detox is done, a lot of water is needed to flush the system. If you are already drinking a lot, try drinking more.

I also think that the epsom salt baths are a good idea.

[LauraLoo]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

Oh thank goodness I'm not going crazy. I mentioned it to my ND and he didn't know what I was talking about. He said "I've never heard of that before."
I didn't want to keep taking it not knowing if it was "normal" or if I was doing *more* damage, yk? I know I should read the cheat sheet, but I never seem to have the time and when I have the time, I don't seem to have the brain function. heh. Can someone tell me about how long that lasts?
I was only taking one tablet (supposedly containing 1 billion live cells) once a day. The "reaction" lasted for a fair number of hours after taking it- maybe I'll start taking it before bed. Then I won't realize I feel like puking.

ETA: I did also have gas and bloating, but no problems with stools. It's kind of funny since the bottle I have says "For occasional upset stomach, gas and bloating." I remember thinking "Uh... To cause it?"

How are you feeling now? Is it working taking it before bed?

I've forgotten to take the Candidase and probiotic before meals a couple of times, so I've waited until 2 hours afterwards (which is the other option) and I find that I don't feel nearly as good when I do that. Last night, as an example, my stomach was grumbling so loudly and I had a lot of bloating. I took the Candidase 2 hours later and by bedtime I was fine. Not sure if that means that the Candidase is doing better work by waiting until after a meal, or if it means that my body really needs these enzymes before it tackles a meal....Or maybe it was just something else.

In any case, I'm now on a maintenance mode with the Candidase and will continue to take them until I run out and then switch over to a broader base enzyme for continued maintenance. I don't want regress!

[Chinese Pistache]

Originally Posted by xekomaya

Chinese Pistache You've been son helpful to me, I wish I had a good answer for you. I have BTVC in front of me but it doesn't seem to include anything about how this process affects a nursling. It does mention that beans, depending on whether or not they are adequately soaked, can have more complex sugars, so perhaps that is your source of inconsistency? It does also talk about bacterial toxins crossing the blood-brain barrier so that is something else that would pass to breastmilk, if that factors in to the answer to your question.


I think we may actually be seeing some progress over here from water kefir. It's all TMI that I may detail at some time, but I'm starting to think that somehow I lost a huge portion of my gut flora - not just imbalanced but like, gone if thats possible. And I'm seeing some signs that it is coming back so I'm pretty psyched. My only issue is that my kefir grains are near death. Think I'm going to go post in the TF forum to see if anyone can help me save them

Thanks, xekomaya. I appreciate you looking. My ds is at baseline now, so I'm just going to give it a week or so before figuring out what to do.

Do you make water kefir? I need to do that. Where did you get your grains?

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by LauraLoo

ChangingSeasons --- I know this is a really elementary suggestion, but anytime a detox is done, a lot of water is needed to flush the system. If you are already drinking a lot, try drinking more.

I also think that the epsom salt baths are a good idea.

No, I do need that reminder. I'm really bad at forcing myself to drink lots of water. I've just never been a big water person... I did buy a big Kleen Kanteen so that I gauge how much I'm drinking every day though.

Originally Posted by Chinese Pistache

Do you make water kefir? I need to do that. Where did you get your grains?

That's next on my list of things to do too!! I think I might just order some, since no one ever seems to have extra water grains. There's a mama that hangs out in the TF forum- dogmama or something like that? She's got the red/brown/whatever color username, and her store's website in her sig that sells kefir grains and scobies and stuff.

[WildIris]

Originally Posted by srneda78

I have a question about digestive enzymes -- maybe some of you nice people would have an idea about this.

Anytime I have taken digestive enzymes, I have gotten really ill. I at least get a severe stomach ache and then usually vomit once or twice. I tried Candex and the same thing happened, except in an even more severe form (vomiting for hours). I take probiotics regularly and have no problem. They have helped my gas/bloating/IBS issues, but I wanted to try to address the underlying causes (possible yeast, leaky gut, etc). But I cannot seem to tolerate digestive enzymes. I have tried low potency, high potency, and protease-free. I still react to them.

Does anyone know what is in them that would make me react to these? I have tried to find stuff online for the last year, but have been unsuccessful.

Thanks in advance.

Hi Shannon,

I have been reading a lot about enzymes lately, from a lot of different sources and one thing I read said something about vomiting being an indication that there is a lot of yeast in the upper intestines, and reactions like diarrhea indicating more yeast in the lower intestines. I don't know if this is true or not, and I can't recall where I read it, so take this with a grain of salt. I will look at some of the sources I saved to see if I can find it again... but when I read your post, I thought of this, so I thought I would mention it.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by WildIris

Hi Shannon,

I have been reading a lot about enzymes lately, from a lot of different sources and one thing I read said something about vomiting being an indication that there is a lot of yeast in the upper intestines, and reactions like diarrhea indicating more yeast in the lower intestines. I don't know if this is true or not, and I can't recall where I read it, so take this with a grain of salt. I will look at some of the sources I saved to see if I can find it again... but when I read your post, I thought of this, so I thought I would mention it.

I know that everyone keeps pushing that the more side effects you have, the more you 'need' the product... but I'm really wondering- isn't there any possibility that someone might just be allergic to the enzymes? I mean, they are derived from (or grown on, or whatever) foods, right?

I'm really having a hard time with this right now, because in the 48 hours since I've stopped taking the Candex, my rash has almost completely disappeared, I slept better last night, DD slept better last night (I actually got 2 & 3 hour stretches!), and there has only been one very small tantrum today. And I have the same symptoms when I'm reacting to a food- rashes flare up, DD and I sleep bad, DD gets all moody, etc. (Her symptoms are different when she's reacting to a food through BM than when I'm reacting to a food, and she's reacting to my reaction.)

And I'm not saying that I don't have a yeast problem... because maybe I do. But I do think that my body does not tolerate enzymes. So I think it's important to point out that one size does not fit all here... everyone's body is different, and just because a 'cure' worked good for one person, it doesn't mean it will work, or even that it won't harm, another person. Maybe I'm just bitter because nothing seems to be working for us...

[WildIris]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

I know that everyone keeps pushing that the more side effects you have, the more you 'need' the product... but I'm really wondering- isn't there any possibility that someone might just be allergic to the enzymes? I mean, they are derived from (or grown on, or whatever) foods, right?

Yes, I think this is a very good point. I was actually thinking to myself, after I wrote the previous post, that I should come back and say "or maybe you're allergic to enzymes."

I think it's important not to rule that out. I'll tell you about the experience I had when I tried taking Armour thyroid. I broke out in a rash when I first started taking it...the rash got worse and worse, turned into hives. Everywhere I posted online, people kept saying they knew other people who had rashes from it but the rash went away eventually, that it was probably just a Herxheimer reaction, etc. I toughed it out for FOUR very long, very itchy weeks until I just couldn't take it anymore. I mean, it was getting so bad that my C-section scar (from 13+ years ago!) was raw and bleeding from all my scratching in that area. Two days after I stopped the med, I had a severe reaction to corn syrup...and at that point realized that I was severely allergic to corn. My hives from the Armour was because of the dextrose in it.

I'm bummed for you that nothing seems to be helping. I know how frustrating that must be. I think you really just have to trust your instincts on this one.

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by LauraLoo

How are you feeling now? Is it working taking it before bed?

NAK
I don't feel horrible anymore. I wake up with a funny taste in my mouth tho,

[Chinese Pistache]

Big CS for all your troubles.

Thanks for the tip on water kefir grains. I'll get to that as soon as I start to reintro things. . . some day <big sigh>.

[lil_miss_understood]

I can't remember the mama's name either, but I happen to have a tab open to her store (at least I think it's the same mama's store- I found it in the siggy of someone with a different colored user name anyway.)
Anyway, it's called Cultures for Health.

[BeingMe]

*Is there anything I should give my dd(28 months old) once we start the regime(starting with zyme-prime) to help heal her gut? I know bone broths, CLO, kefir(trying to get some water kefir grains right now on the yahoo group), and avoiding gluten. But I'm wondering if there is anything else.
*Also, she has never had dairy other than butter, and I like the idea of yogurt for extra probiotics, but should I not do it in case it's hard on her?
*Final question is the VSL #3 a good choice, or is there something better and not so expensive?
Thanks everyone for all your help, you give me sanity and peace amidst all this.

[BeingMe]

Oops I forgot about me. I'm planning on trying to get pregnant in a few months and want to make sure I don't have any holes left in my gut. I have been on digestive enzymes with food for over a year, along with CLO, and many supplements like magnesium, acerola extract, probiotics, some licorice tabs, etc. I still get belly problems, and often feel burning when there is any pressure on my upper stomach (about an inch where ribs seperate), so I think I have work to do.
Going off the enzymestuff website, what is the best(from your knowledge or experience):
1. Broad-spectrum ennzyme,
2. The best strong protease enzyme,
3. The best probiotic
4. The best yeast targeting enzyme(such as candex)

Thanks!!

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by BeingMe

*Also, she has never had dairy other than butter, and I like the idea of yogurt for extra probiotics, but should I not do it in case it's hard on her?

If you want to do yogourt but don't want to do dairy and your dd can tolerate coconut, you could try making coconut yogourt per Kathy's instructions at kathysrecipebox.com. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

I can't remember the mama's name either, but I happen to have a tab open to her store (at least I think it's the same mama's store- I found it in the siggy of someone with a different colored user name anyway.)
Anyway, it's called Cultures for Health.

Yep, that's the one! I think she mentioned a discount for MDC members in her sig too.

[lil_miss_understood]

It's dogmom327 and here's her exact sig

Save money & effort! Our yogurt & buttermilk starters culture at room temperature! Kefir grains & Kombucha cultures too! www.culturesforhealth.com 5% off for MDC members (coupon code: MDC)

[WildIris]

Today I'm rebelling against the regimen. I lazed in bed all morning, didn't eat breakfast, and now at "lunchtime" I'm having a cup of coffee sweetened with Xylitol and some raw cream. I took my Digest Gold first though. Soon I will have a hearty bowl of homemade beef-vegetable soup.

I'm discouraged and weepy today. (Probably a blood sugar drop from skipping breakfast.) I'm getting tired of popping pills (the Candidase plus the Digest Gold plus my other supps) and wondering if it really makes a difference. Mostly all I felt all week was tired and lethargic.

How much am I screwing up my healing by having a cup of coffee now and then?

[BeingMe]

Originally Posted by BeingMe

Oops I forgot about me. I'm planning on trying to get pregnant in a few months and want to make sure I don't have any holes left in my gut. I have been on digestive enzymes with food for over a year, along with CLO, and many supplements like magnesium, acerola extract, probiotics, some licorice tabs, etc. I still get belly problems, and often feel burning when there is any pressure on my upper stomach (about an inch where ribs seperate), so I think I have work to do.
Going off the enzymestuff website, what is the best(from your knowledge or experience):
1. Broad-spectrum ennzyme,
2. The best strong protease enzyme,
3. The best probiotic
4. The best yeast targeting enzyme(such as candex)

Thanks!!

I have been going over HNI's website and Enzymedica's in trying to pick one for me and I'm thinking maybe I can just stick with the digestive enzymes I take. They are http://www.healthforce.com/product-digestion.html and the ingredients are
Ingredients: (High Potency) Each 2 Vcaps® provide:

Protease - 25,000 HUT
Acid Specific Protease - 200 SAP
Lipase - 400 LU
Amylase - 5,000 DU
Cellulase - 1000 CMC
Lactase - 400 LAC
Bromelain (from pineapple) - 10,000 FCC
Papain (from papaya) - 12,000 PU

Do you think this is good enough as a broad-spectrum one?
Do I still nedd a high-protease in addition to starting candex/candidase?
Thanks