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Healing The Gut Tribe! - Page 10

post #181 of 451
Jane,

Wow what a response, thank you. Sorry about the wordiness, can you tell I've been reading too much
I finally took the plunge today and ordered most of my supplements. I got my daughter the Zyme Prime Powder, AFP Powder, Candex, VSL#3, and Brainchild supplements. The only things I need for her are maybe some biotin and no phenol

*What are your thoughts on Biotin?

*As for CLO, I was almost gonna order the CLO/BO mix but dh said we have 4 more bottles of Nordic(stocked up during a sale). Would giving her buter oil with the nordic do much? Or is it not worth the cost to mix it with nordic? I believe she might have a vitamin A deficiency, and possible some others.

*Anything else I'm missing for her?

As for me, I went ahead and ordered the TriEnza, but planning on alternating it with another broad-spectrum, or supplementing it with more no-phenol. I have yet to get the Virastop, waiting on an answer from enzymedica. I plan on swiping some of my daughters Candex and then rotating in some candidase. The only thing I don't have for me is a great probiotic, right now I use Jarrow, but I know it's nothing like her VSL, but then again, we always do better for our little ones right I'm not planning on antifungals at this moment, hoping we can avoid them.

*Should I supplement with Biotin?

*Anything else I'm missing?



Again, THANK YOU for all your help. I hope your feeling better
post #182 of 451
That was a very helpful post, Jane!
Do you find Pharmax probiotics to be better than Klaire probiotics? If so, why? Our doctor recommended we use Klaire products so that's what we've used but if Pharmax has stronger probiotics, I'm very interested.

DD's latest stool microbiology test result showed we had increased her beneficial bacteria levels but now she has two types of bad bacteria at 4+ levels (pseudomonas and acinetobacter baumanii) that weren't there before!
post #183 of 451
So, I don't post much and won't have a lot of time to post in the next week or so, but I do lurk... a LOT.

We started dd (28 mos) on enzymes between meals and got more diligent with the probiotics. At first her skin looked great, but I think it was because of an herbal tincture that she is taking that is supposed to help liver and kidney function. She still had eczema, especially on her legs, but it looked less angry. Then, after a few days on the enzymes, her eczema got much worse. That was preceded by horrific sleep (not a good sleeper anyway, but now she wakes up every hour and mostly sleeps latched on to me the whole night), tantrums and just weird emotional stuff. Her poops are also terrible - runny, sometimes really pale, sometimes dark green. Not that she has been a good pooper either, but this is worse than "normal". Saw one solid poop, first one in months. Then the mess returned. So... is this die-off? I can feel so sure when I read other people's posts, but now that we are probably dealing with it I wonder if she is just reacting to something that I am completely missing. If it is die-off, when does it get better? I have to get some sleep at some point!
post #184 of 451
Jane,

When you reference your dietician is that Brenda? Has she been helpful in charting the yeast trail or have you don't that all by yourself. I guess I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed doing it on my own especially since I think both the kids & I have yeast. I'm sure I should do different regimens based on age & issues so it would be helpful to have a provider to offer advice.

Of course, I'm sure the people on this board know more than any of the providers around so I should just read the thread and pllunge right in. I'm not sure why I'm hesitant. Sleep deprivation perhaps.
post #185 of 451
i've been doing this on my own for a while and it is intimidating me right now too.\
My dd2 is not having such a reaction to the enzymes which is good, my dd2 comes home from kindy so cranky and is so exhausted and passes out by 730 for 2 nights in a row now. She slept 11 hrs last night. That is what i think she needs but she had been sleeping from like 830 -550 lately. ugh!

I am also better today, less braxton hicks more baby movement. Not HTG related but i think my baby might have turned this morning. :

I dont remember who i am responding to but we did not start the AFP peptizide right away with my dds this time, i did that the first time for like 3 days with my dd2 who is 2.5 and she had horrible stomach pain. It was . When I started after a few weeks of being on zyme prime with meals it was very smooth.

my dd1 is getting very cleaned out just taking zyme prime with lunch and dinner. She had 3 bowel movements today. Alot of garbage on its way out!

Do you guys give your kids glutamine? How do they take it?

My girls take probiotic powder strait - they like it. I mix the enzymes with carob spread that i make b4 meals. if i were to sprinkle it on the food i think the food would taste icky. your experience?

I spoke with a canadian trained ND here (we are in Israel) today. I dont think I am going to consult with her. I dont have the money to pay someone who might not be helpful. I dont want someone who looks at things differently than i do.

i want to figure out this thyroid thing. I am going to get some iodine tomorrow G-d willing to try and do a patch test. but then I dont know what i would do with that info. i dont have so many symptoms but i dont want to get any more. I have for the 2 cycles b4 this preg and the 6 before my last one had like 45 day cycles, I have these breast issues, I have anxiety and a little depression, I fly off the handle, but my weight is stable, my skin and hair seem normal to me, although i did noticemy hair is falling out during this pregnancy, usually it stops doing that when i get pregnant untill the very end. And of course I forgot to mention that I am forgetful . SHould I test my kids too? I just feel like iodine supplementation can be scary to do on your own.
post #186 of 451
does anyone have a reliably hypoallergenic activated charcoal?
post #187 of 451
Ok this may have been covered, but when do you do the no-fenol? If you are taking zyme prime, afp peptyzide, and no fenol, which go with meals and what goes in between?
post #188 of 451
Thoughts on consuming liquids with meals?

Is this a bad thing, especially when you're taking enzymes? I have this pavlovian drive to drink water when I eat, but I was thinking that it probably dilutes the enzymes and makes them less effective. What do you think?
post #189 of 451
Jane - One more question (don't cringe! ), what are you thoughts on taking a probiotic that has FOS (Fructooligosaccharides) when one has bad bacteria in the gut? Wouldn't the FOS help the bad bacteria thrive as well? I saw some great Pharmax probiotics that has FOS but perhaps we should get a Pharmax probiotic that doesn't have FOS and there were some like that in their line.
post #190 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAmama View Post
So, I don't post much and won't have a lot of time to post in the next week or so, but I do lurk... a LOT.

We started dd (28 mos) on enzymes between meals and got more diligent with the probiotics. At first her skin looked great, but I think it was because of an herbal tincture that she is taking that is supposed to help liver and kidney function. She still had eczema, especially on her legs, but it looked less angry. Then, after a few days on the enzymes, her eczema got much worse. That was preceded by horrific sleep (not a good sleeper anyway, but now she wakes up every hour and mostly sleeps latched on to me the whole night), tantrums and just weird emotional stuff. Her poops are also terrible - runny, sometimes really pale, sometimes dark green. Not that she has been a good pooper either, but this is worse than "normal". Saw one solid poop, first one in months. Then the mess returned. So... is this die-off? I can feel so sure when I read other people's posts, but now that we are probably dealing with it I wonder if she is just reacting to something that I am completely missing. If it is die-off, when does it get better? I have to get some sleep at some point!
I always have to respond when I see a post like this because when my dd started enzymes it was very messy. Her eczema got worse than it had ever been, her bm's were worse, her eyes got crusty and oozing, her moods were awful, she wet her pants. BUT after a short period of time she began to get better. And better. And better. I would say the worst of it lasted maybe five days or so, and after about two weeks she was markedly better than before the enzymes, in every way. When I introduced peptizyde between meals, the healing crisis or die-off or whatever happened again. After about two months, her eczema was almost gone. Unless you think your dd is having a bona fide allergic reaction to the enzymes (this is unlikely though not impossible) I would urge you to continue with them.

Here's a long thread I started when we began enzymes, and somewhere in there you'll see where I'm asking these same questions. I don't think I would have continued with them if it weren't for those mamas who talked me through it
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...hlight=scd+igg
post #191 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by cahwilson View Post
Ok this may have been covered, but when do you do the no-fenol? If you are taking zyme prime, afp peptyzide, and no fenol, which go with meals and what goes in between?
It depends. Zymeprime with meals, always. If you're consuming gluten or dairy, Peptizyde also with meals. If you are sensitive to phenols, Nofenol also with meals.

We started out using Zymeprime with meals and after dd stabilized on that, added in Peptizyde and Nofenol together in between meals. But we weren't doing any dairy or gluten and are not sensitive to phenols. We were using the latter two for the systemic effects, not for digestion of foods.
post #192 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinese Pistache View Post
Thoughts on consuming liquids with meals?

Is this a bad thing, especially when you're taking enzymes? I have this pavlovian drive to drink water when I eat, but I was thinking that it probably dilutes the enzymes and makes them less effective. What do you think?
A small glass of water with meals is ok but you're right - too much will dilute all the digestive juices, acids, and enzymes. It's probably worse to do this without taking enzymes though, as then there are even less and even more diluted. Also the water should be room temp, not cold.
post #193 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by joybird View Post
I always have to respond when I see a post like this because when my dd started enzymes it was very messy. Her eczema got worse than it had ever been, her bm's were worse, her eyes got crusty and oozing, her moods were awful, she wet her pants. BUT after a short period of time she began to get better. And better. And better. I would say the worst of it lasted maybe five days or so, and after about two weeks she was markedly better than before the enzymes, in every way. When I introduced peptizyde between meals, the healing crisis or die-off or whatever happened again. After about two months, her eczema was almost gone. Unless you think your dd is having a bona fide allergic reaction to the enzymes (this is unlikely though not impossible) I would urge you to continue with them.

Here's a long thread I started when we began enzymes, and somewhere in there you'll see where I'm asking these same questions. I don't think I would have continued with them if it weren't for those mamas who talked me through it
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...hlight=scd+igg
Thank you Joybird. DD has been on Zyme Prime for a few months now, but only just started enzymes between meals. I have taken them between meals before and didn't experience much, maybe I wasn't taking enough. Now I just give it to dd. We are in China and it is such a drama to try and get sups here from the US, so when we go to the US I will get those things for me. Now I really want to just deal with her issues. It has been two years and I am slowly loosing it. We have tried everything, it feels like. And boy, have we spent a lot of money! And no results. I am so discouraged by it all. Some days I just want to get the Ellidel and forget about all of this.

I hope this helps. I am thinking of doing the scd or gaps, as much as I can figure it out online. We were grain-free for a while, but breakfasts were hard to do, since we are egg-free as well. Now I think we will do broth, then slowly add in veggies. I think her gut needs a break. And mine probably as well. I am pretty sure we are dealing with yeast and we probably have some bad bacterial overgrowth as well. I would love to just jump in and do Nystatin and Threelac, but again, can't find it here and people are getting sick of me asking them to bring things for me. It will have to wait for now. Gosh, I haven't been this discouraged in a very long time. There just doesn't seem to be any end in sight. Why can I not figure this out?!! So many mamas on MDC just "get" it after a few months and are well on their way to healing. We haven't given one step forward. As a matter of fact, her digestion is worse than ever!
post #194 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAmama View Post
Thank you Joybird. DD has been on Zyme Prime for a few months now, but only just started enzymes between meals. I have taken them between meals before and didn't experience much, maybe I wasn't taking enough. Now I just give it to dd. We are in China and it is such a drama to try and get sups here from the US, so when we go to the US I will get those things for me. Now I really want to just deal with her issues. It has been two years and I am slowly loosing it. We have tried everything, it feels like. And boy, have we spent a lot of money! And no results. I am so discouraged by it all. Some days I just want to get the Ellidel and forget about all of this.

I hope this helps. I am thinking of doing the scd or gaps, as much as I can figure it out online. We were grain-free for a while, but breakfasts were hard to do, since we are egg-free as well. Now I think we will do broth, then slowly add in veggies. I think her gut needs a break. And mine probably as well. I am pretty sure we are dealing with yeast and we probably have some bad bacterial overgrowth as well. I would love to just jump in and do Nystatin and Threelac, but again, can't find it here and people are getting sick of me asking them to bring things for me. It will have to wait for now. Gosh, I haven't been this discouraged in a very long time. There just doesn't seem to be any end in sight. Why can I not figure this out?!! So many mamas on MDC just "get" it after a few months and are well on their way to healing. We haven't given one step forward. As a matter of fact, her digestion is worse than ever!
I'm sorry mama - it really is so hard to deal with. I hate to suggest another supplement when it is so hard for you to get stuff, but have you tried Saccharomyces Boulardii? It's a probiotic yeast. Your dd's stools sound very much like what my dd's (and mine) were. I can say that we both totally normalized after only a few days on the S. Boulardii. I don't think it was a coincidence. You can research it and see what you think but it is a transient strain of yeast that supposedly inhibits the growth of both yeast and bad bacteria. I wish I could send you some Nystatin but I suppose that's not exactly legal.
post #195 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAmama View Post
Thank you Joybird. DD has been on Zyme Prime for a few months now, but only just started enzymes between meals. I have taken them between meals before and didn't experience much, maybe I wasn't taking enough. Now I just give it to dd. We are in China and it is such a drama to try and get sups here from the US, so when we go to the US I will get those things for me. Now I really want to just deal with her issues. It has been two years and I am slowly loosing it. We have tried everything, it feels like. And boy, have we spent a lot of money! And no results. I am so discouraged by it all. Some days I just want to get the Ellidel and forget about all of this.

I hope this helps. I am thinking of doing the scd or gaps, as much as I can figure it out online. We were grain-free for a while, but breakfasts were hard to do, since we are egg-free as well. Now I think we will do broth, then slowly add in veggies. I think her gut needs a break. And mine probably as well. I am pretty sure we are dealing with yeast and we probably have some bad bacterial overgrowth as well. I would love to just jump in and do Nystatin and Threelac, but again, can't find it here and people are getting sick of me asking them to bring things for me. It will have to wait for now. Gosh, I haven't been this discouraged in a very long time. There just doesn't seem to be any end in sight. Why can I not figure this out?!! So many mamas on MDC just "get" it after a few months and are well on their way to healing. We haven't given one step forward. As a matter of fact, her digestion is worse than ever!


We are grain free and I am so sick of eggs so we have been living off smoothies for breakfast. I do coconut milk, fruit, kale, raw honey, concentrace and then I will mix dd's powdered supplements into a small but and have her drink that first. Don't know if that would work for you, but just a thought. It was hard to transition from pancakes, toast, etc for us.
post #196 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by joybird View Post
I hate to suggest another supplement when it is so hard for you to get stuff, but have you tried Saccharomyces Boulardii? It's a probiotic yeast.
For me, this was a new probiotic suggestion. So, I just did a bunch of reading about it online. Basically, I think this is something to consider, in conjunction with other probiotics, not in large single strain dosing. And not with immunocompromised individuals, due to the rare occurrence of sepsis from the saccharomyces boulardii.

Interestingly, saccharomyces boulardii is present in the Body Ecology Cocobiotic: http://www.bodyecology.com/07/06/14/..._treatment.php

Here is another source of saccharomyces boulardii in lacto fermented beverages: http://www.rejoiceinlife.com/recipes/probiotics.php

I have read that *sometimes* there are naturally occuring saccharomyces boulardii in some kombucha and some milk kefir and in fermented vegetables.


Pat
post #197 of 451

yeast stuff

I'm not sure what to do. I would like to order nystatin for my lo, but my paranoia is too high not knowing exactly where it would be coming from. I'm going to order Candidase for me; will it have any yeast-reducing effect on my nursling?

Also, if Candex and Candidase are supposed to knock out the yeast by attacking their cell wall, do you think it's a fairly slow process? It just seems like, if it's so effective, why aren't more people raving about it (like Threelac)?

If I take Threelac (I have about 1/2 box left), what kind of dosage should I use and how much oxygen should I take with it? I'm kind of hoping I can use it as a booster to the Candidase, because I don't want to spend the money for a bunch more of it if I don't have to.

Which leads me back to my question, will this all have a yeast reducing effect on my lo? If not, what can I do for him? I'm wary of giving him anything other than bifidobacteria.

ETA: What would be the benefit of a product like Virastop? Is it going to do anything that regular enzymes and probiotics aren't already doing?
post #198 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinese Pistache View Post
I'm not sure what to do. I would like to order nystatin for my lo, but my paranoia is too high not knowing exactly where it would be coming from. I'm going to order Candidase for me; will it have any yeast-reducing effect on my nursling?

Also, if Candex and Candidase are supposed to knock out the yeast by attacking their cell wall, do you think it's a fairly slow process? It just seems like, if it's so effective, why aren't more people raving about it (like Threelac)?

If I take Threelac (I have about 1/2 box left), what kind of dosage should I use and how much oxygen should I take with it? I'm kind of hoping I can use it as a booster to the Candidase, because I don't want to spend the money for a bunch more of it if I don't have to.

Which leads me back to my question, will this all have a yeast reducing effect on my lo? If not, what can I do for him? I'm wary of giving him anything other than bifidobacteria.

ETA: What would be the benefit of a product like Virastop? Is it going to do anything that regular enzymes and probiotics aren't already doing?
Can you get a doc to give you a script for nystatin? I don't think that Candidase would help the nursling because the enzymes probably don't make it to the bm. That's just a guess though.

I think the enzymes are pretty powerful for yeast, but would work even better with an anti-fungal if you can do one. I don't know why they are not talked about as much, but perhaps they just aren't tried by as many people. Enzymes in general are not very well known about, even among some NDs and people who are into 'alternative' remedies.

I'm also not sure how to help a nursling w/yeast, because it seems like no matter what you do, they are getting a bellyfull of milk sugar every few hours and that it would just feed the yeast again. But maybe Nystatin would be strong enough to beat it back while you get some good bacteria in there. Calm seems to be the one with the answers on that front.

Virastop is beneficial because it has lots of protease enzymes. They don't kill yeast like cellulase does, but they will help mop up toxins that the yeast release when they're killed. For that reason I think it would be a really good idea to do with the yeast-killing enzymes if you have a young nursling, to keep as much of that away from the bm as possible.
post #199 of 451
Thanks for the encouragement and ideas everyone. We are getting S Boulardii. Hopefully that will help. We are slowly heading to grain free again. Can't do eggs, so we will probably eat a lot of smoothies as well. Hard without coconut milk though, which is really a problem right now.

Anyway, we are sticking it out with the enzymes. It seems to be getting worse by the day! Hopefully this is a good sign.

Have to run. MDC is great!
post #200 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by joybird View Post
Can you get a doc to give you a script for nystatin? I don't think that Candidase would help the nursling because the enzymes probably don't make it to the bm. That's just a guess though.

I think the enzymes are pretty powerful for yeast, but would work even better with an anti-fungal if you can do one. I don't know why they are not talked about as much, but perhaps they just aren't tried by as many people. Enzymes in general are not very well known about, even among some NDs and people who are into 'alternative' remedies.

I'm also not sure how to help a nursling w/yeast, because it seems like no matter what you do, they are getting a bellyfull of milk sugar every few hours and that it would just feed the yeast again. But maybe Nystatin would be strong enough to beat it back while you get some good bacteria in there. Calm seems to be the one with the answers on that front.

Virastop is beneficial because it has lots of protease enzymes. They don't kill yeast like cellulase does, but they will help mop up toxins that the yeast release when they're killed. For that reason I think it would be a really good idea to do with the yeast-killing enzymes if you have a young nursling, to keep as much of that away from the bm as possible.
I know. I just don't know what kind of doctor would be willing to prescribe this to me without us having common symptoms. Conventional docs hardly know anything about yeast other than "infections," and we haven't had luck finding an alternative doctor. Sigh.
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