Healing The Gut Tribe! - Page 2

[Bella Spruce]

Guess I should join in as well. I've been lurking for so long and learning so much that I'm starting to feel a bit guilty for not giving back a bit.

Short story is that I and my 1 year old baby are both recently dx'ed with celiac disease and now I'm trying to fix us both as I perilously introduce him to real people food. The poor kid is allergic to most everything eventually. I see other people struggling with similar stuff.

A thought: What about raw honey to add to the list of usual suspects for gut healing? A quick search on pubmed turns up the following afflicted mice:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16533410

I know I've seen more... Honey's an old remedy for a variety of tummy issues. We've been finding it good to sip it in water. I'm finding it helps with both pain and dehydration when we are recovering from gluten screw ups.

Also I get to eat honey.

[momofmine]

So glad to see this thread! I just posted something in the Allergies forum about our current dilemma, but I would love to talk these things out.

Our history: My first son (now 9) had intestinal issues because I had a shot of abx in labor (and my gut needed healing too), and we did the SCD for three years.

My second child had no intestinal problems at all, though he does have a peanut allergy. I had learned more this time, and was wiser. He had not had any allopathic medcicine at all until this spring when he had strep/scarlatina and I did not want to give abx, but wound up doing it anyway. We are still trying to heal his gut, it really messed it up. I can't believe they are giving out abx like this when it is not life-threatening and it can have these effects. I am so angry about it.

I will come back and post again later about what we are doing.

[momofmine]

Here's what I just poseted in the Allergies forum about our current situation with gut healing:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=958538

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by Bella Spruce

A thought: What about raw honey to add to the list of usual suspects for gut healing? A quick search on pubmed turns up the following afflicted mice:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16533410

I know I've seen more... Honey's an old remedy for a variety of tummy issues. We've been finding it good to sip it in water. I'm finding it helps with both pain and dehydration when we are recovering from gluten screw ups.

Also I get to eat honey.

I'm still really torn about honey. I found this DELICIOUS local raw honey that is so cloudy and thick, it's like eating peanut butter. It's heaven. But I realized that now I crave it- which probably means that I shouldn't have it. Although it's still out for debate, I have a feeling that the honey IS adding to a possible yeast problem that I have (and the yeast is wanting that delicious source of food, making me crave it). So I finished off the jar last night, and I'm going to try and stay off the honey for a few weeks and see what happens.

[momofmine]

Regarding probiotics

I am trying to figure out if the probiotics I am giving are making things better or worse. I don't want to stop all together, because I am afraid if that's the wrong thing, it would get a lot worse. But I have heard that for some people, certain strains can actually make the situation worse. Or for some people, the probiotics make their stool looser.

I am giving the Klaire Ther Biotic Complete (25 billion) 3 times a day, and the kids are 4 and 9. They have perfect, formed stools sometimes, then other times they have loose stools. Like, they come out formed but then separate in the water. In addition, they saythey have tummy aches sometimes. Nothing bad, and it goes away soon after, but my 9 year old has never complained of tummy aches before.

I am giving this one 3 times a day because a holistic ped suggested I do that, along with an herbal candid yeast formula. So, I am wondering if maybe this should only be given in conjunction with that (like, they balance each other out?).

When I reduce the amount, they seem to get worse, so I don't want to completely stop, but I haven't tried completely stopping.

What do you all think?

[Chinese Pistache]

Originally Posted by momofmine

I am trying to figure out if the probiotics I am giving are making things better or worse. I don't want to stop all together, because I am afraid if that's the wrong thing, it would get a lot worse. But I have heard that for some people, certain strains can actually make the situation worse. Or for some people, the probiotics make their stool looser.

I am giving the Klaire Ther Biotic Complete (25 billion) 3 times a day, and the kids are 4 and 9. They have perfect, formed stools sometimes, then other times they have loose stools. Like, they come out formed but then separate in the water. In addition, they saythey have tummy aches sometimes. Nothing bad, and it goes away soon after, but my 9 year old has never complained of tummy aches before.

I am giving this one 3 times a day because a holistic ped suggested I do that, along with an herbal candid yeast formula. So, I am wondering if maybe this should only be given in conjunction with that (like, they balance each other out?).

When I reduce the amount, they seem to get worse, so I don't want to completely stop, but I haven't tried completely stopping.

What do you all think?

When did you start them on the probiotics? It could very well be that they're still needing more gut healing and that takes time. Do they eat/drink dairy? Do they eat gluten?

[momofmine]

Originally Posted by Chinese Pistache

When did you start them on the probiotics? It could very well be that they're still needing more gut healing and that takes time. Do they eat/drink dairy? Do they eat gluten?

Well, my youngest (4 yo) has been on the 3x/day Klaire for a lot longer, a few months, while my oldest one (9 yo) has only been doing that for a few weeks. No dairy right now, and I had cut out gluten too. But I put gluten back in this week. He has had several formed, actually perfect stools since putting it back in, but I guess it could be that. He hasn't had much gluten, just a few pieces of sprouted grain bread. But I guess it could be a delayed reaction to that.

I guess I was just wondering, because I hear some people say that probiotics actually make them have looser stool, if it could be that he's just really sensitive, and the 75 billion total per day is too much.

He has now had total diarrhea (turn the water brown) for two days now. Only twice a day, but still, this is not normal. He also said he had a tummy ache every day this week. Didn't tell me this until yesterday, but when I asked him if his tummy hurt, he said yes, his tummy never used to hurt, but this week, at least once a day, it has felt "weird".

When I first tried the Klaire probs for them several months ago during/right after the probiotics, it caused lots of tummy rumbling and tummyaches. So I don't know what to do. I was considering just stopping and trying just foods, like making yogurt. Though we have not been eating dairy at all. I am afraid to completely stop though, because what if he has a pretty significant imbalance, and it gets worse quickly from completely stopping for a few days.

I could also try this herbal supplement that this pediatrician that I saw recommended. I was hesitating to try it because it has a lot of strong herbs in it, like pau d'arco, and something in me was just resisting it. But maybe I am just being over-anxious about it.

[JaneS]

I'm reading Dr. Cass Ingram's The Cure is in the Cupboard right now about oil of oregano (North American Herb & Spice brand) and it's really interesting information.

Anti viral, anti bacterial and anti fungal. From sinusitis, eczema, and psoriasis to IBS, candida, measles, mumps, chicken pox and diptheria.

I think I need to look into more traditional herbal textbooks. I feel like I need to know more about creating an "antibiotic free" arsenal.

Our holistic dietician rec it for DS b/c she still thinks he has some stuff going on b/c he's so fruit and sugar sensitive still. Only the low sugar fruits he can tolerate. Perfect stools on lots of GF grains and potatoes, so not sure what exactly is up with him.

[BookGoddess]

I'm here though I lurk a lot of time.

DD has multiple food sensitivies according to her 90-day IgG test.
She's on Klaire's Therabiotic probiotics. She also gets HMF powdered probiotic.
She takes enzymes from Houston Nutraceuticals given apart from the probiotics.
DD gets cod liver oil and evening primrose oil daily along with l-carnitine to help absorption.
She takes Nystatin for yeast. We alternate it with Uva Ursi and Saccharomyces boulardii. I'm also using biotin to help with the yeast. She's also on a low sugar diet. DD's tummy still seems a bit pot bellied to us so I have a feeling we haven't gotten all the yeast.

We're going to do a repeat stool test soon we'll see if the enzymes, probiotics, and antifungals have helped.

I'm suspecting she has some latent viruses in her. From time to time she gets unexplained fevers without any other symptoms. We've had her tested for UTIs and kidneys problems but nope, there's nothing wrong.

[momofmine]

Originally Posted by BookGoddess

She takes Nystatin for yeast. We alternate it with Uva Ursi and Saccharomyces boulardii. I'm also using biotin to help with the yeast. She's also on a low sugar diet. DD's tummy still seems a bit pot bellied to us so I have a feeling we haven't gotten all the yeast.

We're going to do a repeat stool test soon we'll see if the enzymes, probiotics, and antifungals have helped.

I'm suspecting she has some latent viruses in her. From time to time she gets unexplained fevers without any other symptoms. We've had her tested for UTIs and kidneys problems but nope, there's nothing wrong.

How did you know she needed the things like Nystatin and S boulardii for yeast? What kind of S Boulardii do you use and how/when do you give it? Klaire has a probiotic called ABx Support that has S. boulardii, L. rhamnosus, Bifidobacterium bifidum, and Bifidobacterium breve, for a total of 10 billion CFUs. I was thinking about trying this for my 9 year old, but wasn't sure about how to use it for kids.

How much of the Klaire Ther Biotic Complete does your DD have per day?

Sorry for all the questions! Just one more...what kind of stool test did she have and what was it looking for?

Did your DD have problems after abx or was it something else?

Many thanks!!

[momofmine]

Originally Posted by JaneS

I'm reading Dr. Cass Ingram's The Cure is in the Cupboard right now about oil of oregano (North American Herb & Spice brand) and it's really interesting information.

Anti viral, anti bacterial and anti fungal. From sinusitis, eczema, and psoriasis to IBS, candida, measles, mumps, chicken pox and diptheria.

I think I need to look into more traditional herbal textbooks. I feel like I need to know more about creating an "antibiotic free" arsenal.

Our holistic dietician rec it for DS b/c she still thinks he has some stuff going on b/c he's so fruit and sugar sensitive still. Only the low sugar fruits he can tolerate. Perfect stools on lots of GF grains and potatoes, so not sure what exactly is up with him.

Thanks for the book suggestion. I am also educating myself because I will never give my kids abx again. Only one round of abx messed up my 4 year old's system so much that it has taken months and months and we're still working on it.

I think there are certain fruits that make my older son's system more volatile too.

What do you do for grains? You said GF grains, but I have been having a hard time finding ways to make things from GF grains that are also NT/WAP.

[dogmom327]

Subbing!

I need to get on board. I have major yeast issues and have for a long time so I suspect my gut is officially a disaster area at this point. Things I am doing (or trying to do) every day:

--At least a quart of water kefir
--At least 16 oz. of kombucha
--Couple of tablespoons of coconut oil
--CLO/BO
--Cook everything possible in bone broth
--Just started making fermented veggies
--Try to eat TF as much as I possibly can

[momofmine]

Originally Posted by dogmom327

Subbing!

--At least a quart of water kefir
--At least 16 oz. of kombucha
--Couple of tablespoons of coconut oil
--CLO/BO
--Cook everything possible in bone broth
--Just started making fermented veggies
--Try to eat TF as much as I possibly can

Wow! That sounds great! I have wanted to try making kefir or kombucha, but haven't yet. Is there a difference in kefir and water kefir?

[dogmom327]

Water kefir has the same benefits as dairy kefir but you can drink a whole lot more of it since it's water-based. Also water kefir can be easily flavored. I personally love it with 1/2 c. lemon juice (per 1/2 gallon of WF). Makes a fabulous lemonade. You can also add fruit, vanilla extract, etc. A good friend of mine makes water kefir lemonade and just leaves it in the fridge. Her teenagers drink it by the gallon. As far as they're concerned, it's just lemonade but she gets the satisfaction of knowing they are getting a healthy probiotic drink.

[BookGoddess]

Originally Posted by momofmine

How did you know she needed the things like Nystatin and S boulardii for yeast? What kind of S Boulardii do you use and how/when do you give it? Klaire has a probiotic called ABx Support that has S. boulardii, L. rhamnosus, Bifidobacterium bifidum, and Bifidobacterium breve, for a total of 10 billion CFUs. I was thinking about trying this for my 9 year old, but wasn't sure about how to use it for kids.

How much of the Klaire Ther Biotic Complete does your DD have per day?

Sorry for all the questions! Just one more...what kind of stool test did she have and what was it looking for?

Did your DD have problems after abx or was it something else?

Many thanks!!

I don't mind the questions.

My daughter is on the autism spectrum. We heard about the Defeat Autism Now (DAN!) approach which combines biomedical approaches with therapy. The biomed has been helpful to my DD. One of the tests our DAN doctor recommended was a comprehensive stool/parasitology test from Doctor's Data. It was very helpful. It showed DD had various imbalances in her gut like Gamma Strep, Klebsiella Pnuemonia, etc. We also learned how much of the good bacteria and how much of the bad yeast she had. Using that we came up with a plan to add more beneficial bacteria, eliminate the yeast, and aid digestion by use of enzymes. The stool was cultured by the lab (fun job, huh? ) and they told us that the yeast was sensitive to Nystatin ( a prescription med), Uva Ursi (an herb that should only be used short term for it can be toxic if used long-term), and caprylic acid (from coconut oil).

I use the S. Boulardii for yeast control. It is also a yeast but it kills the bad yeast. If you use S. Boulardii for yeast control you can't do it at the same time as a prescriptive yeast med like Nystatin. It will kill the S. Boulardii. From what I understand S. Boulardii isn't meant to be used on and on. I think you're supposed to take a break on it. I get ours from Kirkman Labs. http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/products/...0_Spec240.html
I give 1 capsule a day. It has 9 billion CFUs.

We also take the Gastroimmune Support capsules from Kirkman. It has cat's claw, turmeric, ginger root, marshmallow root, slippery elm bark, and quercetin to help the gut. http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/products/...romune367.html

Hope that helps!

[momofmine]

BookGodess,

Thank you for that info. Please let us know when you get the repeat test done! I hope it is helping her.

Did you say she also takes the Klaire Ther Biotic Complete? How much/often does she take that?

I am giving it three times a day and just wondered if it was too much. The doctor who told me to give it to them also told me to do an herbal Candida/yeast formula at the same time (which I am not doing, it just seemed too strong). So I am wondering if they are supposed to balance each other out, and that without the herbs that maybe I am giving too much of the probiotics.

I just hesitated to give this to them because it seems like one of those "blanket" formulas. Like, put everything in there and hope some of it helps. But he told me to give it for 6 months, and it has uva ursi leaf, pau d'arco bark, olive leaves, grapefruit seed, garlic root, oregon grape root, black walnut hulls, echinacea root. You mentioned that uva ursi shouldn't be given long term. I don't know, I just felt like it seemed kind of strong, so I wanted to find more info first, but I haven't really been able to.

Thanks!

[WildCanaryCait]

dipping back in and subbing! I feel like we are practically living on supplements....lol. We're still working on gut healing along with remineralization for Aidan, I am taking lots of supp's too. Now, I am seeing another symptom that has me backtracking to figure out what to increase or get rid of....ack! Help!
Aidan's feet, right under his big toes, are beginning to look dryish, sortof peeling, no cracks, no fungus/atheletes foot, but enough that I am using calendula cream when I put his socks on for him to try and moisturize some. His Dad has terrible problems with this, the bottoms of his feet are totally dried out, cracking, have been since he was about 25 he says. He goes today to a dermatologist, then podiatrist in a few weeks...went a long time ago and was told it is not fungal. The onloy reference I have found so far that gives a righton description is diabetes related, which does run in his family(mother). So....I am concerned about Aidan's tootsies!
For gut healing and the remin effort , Aidan takes:
blue ice hv clo
prob's
bone broths
homeopathic- cal phos and cal flour
butteroil
multi v's
D3 in mornin juice
trace minerals
xylitol mints
kale kale and more kale
white oak bark tincture

I think that's everything. Some things I just put in his smoothies, other things he likes off the spoon. He's working on his two year molars, but has the rest, so chewing vit's is no trouble.
I also take the clo, prob's, cal mag in the am, mag at night, organ caps(dr rons), coconut oil, prenatals, butter oil, GI repair, Super Enzymes plus.
I cook with the bone broths in general. I may be missing something on our regimen.

I'm baffled about his feet, wondering if I need to increase the clo? Has anyone encountered this?

Along the lines of gut healing, how long do you generally keep up all the supplements? We've not done any food sensitivity testing , just my recording and elimination tracking. We are still nursing alot too.

tia for any insights!!

Cait

[BookGoddess]

momofmine - We were told not to use uva ursi for more than 9 days at at time. Ours is a straight up uva ursi formula. It doesn't have any other herbs in it. We take it for 9 days then stop then do another antifungal then another then come back to uva ursi. You have to keep rotating the antifungals because the yeast can become resistant. I'm thinking of ordering a new product called Candex. It works differently from other products for yeast. It dissolves the out film of the yeast. It's hard for yeast to become resistant to that.

I'll let you know what DD's latest test results reveal. I'm hoping for good things.


She takes the Ther-Biotic Complete (2 tablets daily) but I'm thinking of stopping it and using it instead because it has a strep strain (Streptococcus thermophilus) in it. I've heard that strep can be an issue for kids like mine on the spectrum. Until I know more I'm going to another probiotic formula from Klaire Labs.

Cait - It's really hard to remember all the supplements that I have to give. I even bought one of those pill containers that divides the morning, afternoon, and evening doses. I haven't used it yet. I try to give supplements twice a day if I can. Once in the morning and once at night. I keep those that need to be separate like the zinc and calcium; probiotics and enzymes away from each other but the rest get mushed into food or a drink.
I find CLO is very helpful with my dry skin condition. What brand are you using?

[BookGoddess]

Originally Posted by momofmine

I am giving it three times a day and just wondered if it was too much. The doctor who told me to give it to them also told me to do an herbal Candida/yeast formula at the same time (which I am not doing, it just seemed too strong). So I am wondering if they are supposed to balance each other out, and that without the herbs that maybe I am giving too much of the probiotics.

Yeast and bad bacteria can affect each other. If you are successful with antifungals and the yeast decreases that leaves room for the bad bacteria to flourish. You want to tackle both the yeast and the bad bacteria at the same time. Perhaps something like Candex might help. It's supposed to dissolve the cell walls of the yeast. It's not a drug. It's not a herbal formula. It's an enzymatic product with little side effects.
http://www.yeastinfectionadvisor.com...sforyeast.html
http://www.amazon.com/Pure-Essence-L.../dp/B0007A2G32

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by BookGoddess

Perhaps something like Candex might help.

Ooh- that reminds me of a question that I had. I think JaneS had also mentioned Candex or Candidase on another thread... I found them both at the HFS, and another one (can't remember the brand now) that looked pretty similar. But the 3rd one had a disclaimer that one ingredient was derived from eggs (of course it didn't say which ingredient), and that made me nervous, so I didn't get any of them.

Do you (or Jane) know if there are any top allergens in Candex or Candidase?

I am so scared to take supplements these days- it seems like DD reacts to all of them through my BM, and then I later find out that there is an ingredient derived from ____ [fill in one of our 1,000,000 allergens here] ___.