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Healing The Gut Tribe! - Page 13

post #241 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
I definitely agree with homeopathy consultation. Also, it is important to rotate probiotics otherwise "probiotic resistance" could develop, I've read. Don't use single strain probiotics; and DO rotate them every 4-7 days. Additionally, "Live Active Culture" probiotics (like *some* yogurt, all kefir and fermented foods) are more able to make it to the gut and repopulate the microflora. Most probiotics sold are not vital once they make to the gut. Especially, probiotic powders loose potency when exposed to the air. Probiotics in capsule form live longer. Also the heat damage from transportation diminishes the vital cultures of many probiotics sold.. A lot of yogurt is heat pasteurized, which kills probiotics! Look for "Live Active Cultures".

Here is an informative article "Selection Criteria for Probiotics": http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=artBody;col1

But, from what I've read, it is essential to continually consume healthy bacteria, they don't replace the "bad microbs", just displace them. So, adding alternative "good bacteria", not singular or limited individual probiotics, seems more optimal to the gut. http://www.usprobiotics.org/docs/Sci...%C2%B0%205.pdf

The Probiotic Solution champions the "pulsing and rotating probiotics". http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...52/ai_n6112818

I'd venture to guess that your probiotics may be "old" and lost ability to repopulate the gut.

This link discusses specific brands of different probiotics: http://www.usprobiotics.org/products.asp

Also, you may consider using almond flour for baking. I don't know the specifics on baking substitutions though.


HTH,
Pat
Thanks Pat!

I called the homeopathic person this morning, and he says it is most definitely just an anal fissure. He HAS been straining more to poop. His poop comes out formed but soft and it breaks apart in the water. So how can this cause an anal fissure?

I really think his gut is just still very inflamed and he reacted to the coconut flour. But, I would have thought it would have stopped by now. The thing is that we BOTH had the same reaction, blood in our stools. Except I only had it for two days, where he has had it now for four days. (Only having one bowel movement per day, though, so it's not like it is a lot of blood. And everything else is fine. No fever, lethargy, stomach pain, etc.)

We can both handle coconut milk and shredded coconut and coconut macaroons just fine. But the coconut flour we could not. It's so weird. That makes me think it is not necessarily an allergic reaction, but rather just maybe if the gut is inflamed, the coconut flour is somehow irritating because of the fiber or something. (I'll admit I ate quite a few of the cookies I made.)

He also still nurses, so I guess it also takes an extra day or so for it get out of my breastmilk. Though he really doesn't nurse that much at all now. One to two times per day max.

We used to use almond flour for baking when we did the SCD several years ago with my first child, up until the age of 4. But the second child has a peanut allergy, so I've been avoiding that. So I was hoping coconut would work. But, it's clearly OFF the list for a while.

I am just so confused about this blood in the stool. The doctor said anal fissure, but he had this a few weeks ago (though much, much less) after being on a higher dose probiotic for a while, and there is just something in me that wonders if it isn't maybe the probiotic itself irritating things more. Maybe we can't handle the FOS the way others can. I don't know.

I don't think it's that the probiotics are old, because we ordered straight from Klaire, they stay refrigerated, and they shipped them packed in ice.

The one we were giving did have multiple strains in it.

Do you all think I should just stop the probiotic altogether for a day or two?

I tried just giving him yogurt for two days now (we had stopped dairy altogether), and his nose is congested today. This is the same reaction I have to dairy. Though he's eaten it before without problems, I'm just not sure about giving him dairy.
post #242 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAmama View Post
Dd's skin seems to be clearing!! And her poops are looking more formed. :

We started A Vogel's eczema formula a month or so ago. It is supposed to help liver and kidney function. Then we started enzymes between meals (for her) about two weeks ago (had been doing enzymes with meals for a long time). She was reacting horrendously, with moods, tantrums and terrible, terrible sleep. Oh, and her eczema was red and angry. Last week I gave her one dose of premixed Nystatin (with all the crap in it) and she flared up really bad. I wasn't sure if it was because of the colouring, etc. in it, or because of die-off, but decided not to do it again. Oh, somewhere last week I started adding GSE to her enzymes and then be sure to follow it up with some strong probiotics. More tantrums, flare-ups, etc. Now she is finally sleeping a little better (waking up only 4-5 times a night, as opposed to just about every hour... or waking up and not going back to sleep). But her skin looks fantastic, although she is still very itchy at night and at nap time (any clues why?). The best it has in two years!! Oh, and what made all this possible is that I taught her to take capsules last week. She was starting to really rebel against her enzymes, but thought it was pretty grand to take a tablet.

Today we started with the GAPS diet. We are only doing broth today, but will add meat tomorrow and then slowly add veggies.

I also have the opportunity to get some stuff from the US. I was thinking of either Threelac and Oxygen elements or Nystatin (the pure stuff) and a very good probiotic (she is using mine, Primal Defense, which she actually isn't supposed to get, according to the bottle). The person who will bring it has very limited space, so it is either or for us. I am leaning towards the Threelac, but am not sure. Any suggestions?

Wow! That's awesome! What do you think did the trick for more formed stools?

I would really like to hear about Threelac too. I know others here have used it. I have also seen others give mixed reviews about it. Someone just posted another thread about one of the strains in the Threelac being connected to cancer. ?? Who knows.
post #243 of 451
How was it determined that it was a fissure? Can you see it? Was it frank blood or was there mucus involved?

It's possible it was a fissure, but with stool that soft I would be wondering about skin integrity. Are you getting adequate amounts of zinc in your diet?

I would also say to anyone with an inflamed gut...be extra wary of fiber. I am not suprised at this reaction....I have seen it alot. I'm sorry! For a damaged gut IME fiber is NOT your friend.
post #244 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by firefaery View Post
for anyone interested this is a fun product and has been used widely for gut healing.

http://www.vegetarian-restaurants.ne...E-DE-DRAGO.htm

Sangre de Drago is used extensively by indigenous cultures of the Amazon River basin for its remarkable healing properties. Applied to the skin on abrasions, cuts, scratches, and blisters, Sangre de Drago almost immediately forms a brownish gel over the lesion that seals the wound. Applied on bites and stings it halts the symptoms of pain and itching within minutes, with a subsequent reduction in swelling and redness. Sangre de Drago is reported by indigenous people to foster wound healing at a rate that is superior to natural processes, and it does so with reduced pain, inflammation, and scarring. Indigenous people also take Sangre de Drago orally in a diluted form (e.g. three drops in a beverage two or three times a day) for gastrointestinal disorders, gastritis, gastric ulcer, intestinal infections, colitis and parasites.

*****

To strengthen the wall of the intestine and eliminate conditions linked to a leaky gut" add a teaspoon of Sangre de Drago to one liter of water and drink throughout the day for approximately two weeks. To help get rid of parasites" add three to four teaspoons of Sangre de Drago to one liter of water and drink for a few days.

I use it for any kind of major bleed and had started using it several months back internally. I don't know if it was part of what allowed the healing, but it's amazing stuff externally so I do wonder....

Our homeopathic MD recommends stuff from this company, Amazon Herbs. I think he told me about the external stuff you are mentioning for cuts and wounds. What did it help you for internally? I am eager to know more! Thanks!
post #245 of 451
I have used threelac and did look into it intensively after that link was posted. I actually think there were some serious holes in that argument. I would personally do it again.
post #246 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by momofmine View Post
Our homeopathic MD recommends stuff from this company, Amazon Herbs. I think he told me about the external stuff you are mentioning for cuts and wounds. What did it help you for internally? I am eager to know more! Thanks!
I haven't been around in awhile, but I was in the healing the gut tribe back when it started. I had been diagnosed with celiac disease, I had all the symptoms that went along with inflammatory bowel disease, I was very sick for over a decade and subjected to all kinds of testing. Then my kids came along and my body was too sick to make milk (all three times...my milk did not come in on it's own) and I was experiencing neurological symptoms as well. All of my kids have documented food allergies. We have healed quite a bit, but I jsut tested negative for gluten. That is pretty darned huge after how sick I was. I won't say I'm "healed" yet, but I no longer have any of my original symptoms that I had for literally a decade.

I used several things (homeopathy being a biggie) but I can now eat anything with no symptoms, and as I said...my allergy tests have changed dramatically. I will not be consuming gluten on a regular basis but it's nice to know it won't be dangerous if I do!
post #247 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by firefaery View Post
How was it determined that it was a fissure? Can you see it? Was it frank blood or was there mucus involved?

It's possible it was a fissure, but with stool that soft I would be wondering about skin integrity. Are you getting adequate amounts of zinc in your diet?

I would also say to anyone with an inflamed gut...be extra wary of fiber. I am not suprised at this reaction....I have seen it alot. I'm sorry! For a damaged gut IME fiber is NOT your friend.
No, I cannot see it at all, and he was just telling me this over the phone. He said absolutely that is what it was. I am thinking, how can he know that for sure though? He said from the way I described it, that's all it is.

There was no mucus. He is taking a kids multivitamin from Vitamin Research Products, but I just looked and it only has 2 mg zinc.

I totally agree about that with the fiber! We actually saw the homeopathic physician last week, and he just said it's normal that his stools are breaking apart in the water because he is eating so much fruit (He asked about DS's diet, and felt he was getting too much fructose. He does eat a lot of fruit.)

But, he just said to not worry about it, that he's fine, doesn't need anything else. He said just switch the balance to more vegetables and less fruit. And keep giving just the lower dose Klaire probiotic, and that's it.

I feel his gut is still inflamed. When I was giving him the higher dose probiotics three times a day, he was starting to have formed stools regularly. But then, after a while, he started having a very itchy bottom, was still saying his tummy hurt every now and then, and so I stopped them completely and he had a very red painful rash that I really thought was yeast immediately.

It cleared up by applying yogurt topically.

But this is why I am wondering if maybe the probiotic helped at first, but then started irritating things.

Now, with just the lower dose Klaire probiotic, he is back to having stools that come out formed and then break apart in the water.
post #248 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by firefaery View Post
I would also say to anyone with an inflamed gut...be extra wary of fiber. I am not suprised at this reaction....I have seen it alot. I'm sorry! For a damaged gut IME fiber is NOT your friend.
Yes, see I think that his gut is still in need of healing, and therefore the extra fiber caused problems.

Plus the thing about the doctor saying that it's just that he is getting too much fructose...then why did this change only happen after antibiotics? It was not like that before, and his diet was pretty much the same.

I just don't know where to go now, to heal his gut further.

How did you know you needed the Threelac? I have been wondering about trying that. Is it used on little ones (he just turned four).
post #249 of 451
Momofmine, with soft stool, I'd be inclined to think it was not an anal fissure.

When I just did a search about FOS, I found this which isn't supportive of probiotics including FOS. http://www.healingcrow.com/ferfun/co...onspiracy.html

I'm a whole foods gal, so my recommendation is kefir. Easiest is milk kefir. If you can get raw milk it is much less allergenic than pasteurized, homogenized dairy. The probiotics and other microflora are in balance and are a traditional fermented food. That will help his gut most, imo. Or water kefir, if you want to avoid all casein.

Otherwise, I'd consider rotating probiotics.

Definitely, I'd avoid almond flour in the house due to your other child's peanut allergy. You may consider NAET for clearing your son of coconut (and the other of peanut) reactions. Have you considered soaking whole grains? We do the Sue Gregg blender method of soaking whole barley, spelt, Kamut, rice, and steel cut oats. http://www.suegregg.com/recipes/brea...erwafflesA.htm


Pat
post #250 of 451
Threelac had alot of great testimonials so I decided to try it. This was years ago. I have it to my dd and she was under two. She loved it! I think it helped alot, it just didn't address our underlying issue.
post #251 of 451
Anyone on Threelac might find this interesting.
post #252 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAmama View Post
Dd's skin seems to be clearing!! And her poops are looking more formed. :

We started A Vogel's eczema formula a month or so ago. It is supposed to help liver and kidney function. Then we started enzymes between meals (for her) about two weeks ago (had been doing enzymes with meals for a long time). She was reacting horrendously, with moods, tantrums and terrible, terrible sleep. Oh, and her eczema was red and angry. Last week I gave her one dose of premixed Nystatin (with all the crap in it) and she flared up really bad. I wasn't sure if it was because of the colouring, etc. in it, or because of die-off, but decided not to do it again. Oh, somewhere last week I started adding GSE to her enzymes and then be sure to follow it up with some strong probiotics. More tantrums, flare-ups, etc. Now she is finally sleeping a little better (waking up only 4-5 times a night, as opposed to just about every hour... or waking up and not going back to sleep). But her skin looks fantastic, although she is still very itchy at night and at nap time (any clues why?). The best it has in two years!! Oh, and what made all this possible is that I taught her to take capsules last week. She was starting to really rebel against her enzymes, but thought it was pretty grand to take a tablet.

Today we started with the GAPS diet. We are only doing broth today, but will add meat tomorrow and then slowly add veggies.

I also have the opportunity to get some stuff from the US. I was thinking of either Threelac and Oxygen elements or Nystatin (the pure stuff) and a very good probiotic (she is using mine, Primal Defense, which she actually isn't supposed to get, according to the bottle). The person who will bring it has very limited space, so it is either or for us. I am leaning towards the Threelac, but am not sure. Any suggestions?
I am so happy to hear this! I know you and I pm'd a few times a while back and your dd's problems sounded so very similar to my dd. Enzymes are what really kick-started our healing too. And things only kept getting better after that. Once you really know that it is either yeast or bacteria causing the problems, it frees you up to be a lot more aggressive in pursuing healing measures. I also would not have been able to do any of this without getting my dd to take capsules.

My dd is on a round of Nystatin and she did flare from that too. Also from the GSE but then would get better when I persevered through the tough stuff. Die-off, I guess. Our holistic doc knew it was yeast when I told him about how she reacted to enzymes, GSE, etc. So he suggested a round of Nystatin and did a stool test and, sure enough there was yeast.

I am tempted by the Threelac but also nervous enough from some of the things I've read about it. I know it may not be true, but if by chance it is true, it's not something you can go back and change. The bacteria, once introduced, cannot be taken back out, you know? And since there are so many other ways of dealing with yeast, I don't think I'll take the chance with Threelac. If someone brings you probiotics, they'd need to be kept cold...don't know if that's a problem or not. If you can get it, I'd go for the Nystatin. It also comes in tablet form so that's another option now for your dd!

I am so happy for you. There is absolutely no better feeling in the world to know that your baby is getting better. Fair play to you! And good luck on the GAPS diet - I'm sure it will help too. And maybe you won't have to be on it too long if you keep up with the enzymes. Congratulations!!!
post #253 of 451
Checking in...

For Me:
I have been taking Tri-Enza with meals 2x a day and my other enzymes (Healthforce Nutritionals) with other meals. I have started with Virastop 1x a day and will be working it up starting tomorrow. I slipped a little and had some apple pie, but I just couldn't resist, especially since it was Marie Calendar's.
Once I get my virsatop up higher I will be adding in Candex and then rotating it with candidase. And if that's not good enough I will bring on some antifungals such as oregano or pau d'arco.

For my 28 month DD:
We have been using Zyme-prime with all meals and no real reactions, although she has had a bit of a rash on and off around her mouth. Just today we introduced AFP with a meal and will be slowly working it up. I also started her on 125mcg of Biotin a day mixed with 200mg of Magnesium(natural calm). She also gets brainchild vitamins and minerals and cod liver oil. And I also have started giving her milk thistle drops in her water.
Once the Afp is in every meal I will start the VSL #3, then after that I will get her on Candex.

I plan on getting some butter oil, maybe I will get it on Wednesday when I go to my first WAPF cooking class. I'm so excited.
post #254 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by joybird View Post
I am so happy to hear this! I know you and I pm'd a few times a while back and your dd's problems sounded so very similar to my dd. Enzymes are what really kick-started our healing too. And things only kept getting better after that. Once you really know that it is either yeast or bacteria causing the problems, it frees you up to be a lot more aggressive in pursuing healing measures. I also would not have been able to do any of this without getting my dd to take capsules.

My dd is on a round of Nystatin and she did flare from that too. Also from the GSE but then would get better when I persevered through the tough stuff. Die-off, I guess. Our holistic doc knew it was yeast when I told him about how she reacted to enzymes, GSE, etc. So he suggested a round of Nystatin and did a stool test and, sure enough there was yeast.

I am tempted by the Threelac but also nervous enough from some of the things I've read about it. I know it may not be true, but if by chance it is true, it's not something you can go back and change. The bacteria, once introduced, cannot be taken back out, you know? And since there are so many other ways of dealing with yeast, I don't think I'll take the chance with Threelac. If someone brings you probiotics, they'd need to be kept cold...don't know if that's a problem or not. If you can get it, I'd go for the Nystatin. It also comes in tablet form so that's another option now for your dd!

I am so happy for you. There is absolutely no better feeling in the world to know that your baby is getting better. Fair play to you! And good luck on the GAPS diet - I'm sure it will help too. And maybe you won't have to be on it too long if you keep up with the enzymes. Congratulations!!!
Yes, I read and reread your pm's, especially after we seemed to get stuck and not move forward in healing. I really think it is the enzymes as well.
The Threelac sounds so simple, but dh is especially not comfortable with the strains in it. He would have to do more research and he definitely doesn't have time for it now. Neither do I. So, we might do the Nystatin. We can always do the Threelac later. We will get some kefir grains, finally! I am hoping that will help us as well.

This has been such a long journey and I am so tired of all of it. I really hope it is nearing an end.
post #255 of 451

Where do you get pure Nystatin?

Anybody have a source for pure Nystatin? I know it has to come from Canada.

Also, in searching for it I found this:

Quote:
Caraway promotes gastric secretion and stimulates appetite. It breaks down spasms in the gastrointestinal tract to prevent flatulence, but it is also used to treat menstrual cramps and gallbladder spasms. Caraway oil is strongly fungicidal, having a stronger anti-fungal and anti-yeast activity than the prescription medication Nystatin.
from this site http://www.tasteofnature.com/109.html
Anybody have any experience with it? And, where would I find actual caraway oil?
post #256 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
Momofmine, with soft stool, I'd be inclined to think it was not an anal fissure.

When I just did a search about FOS, I found this which isn't supportive of probiotics including FOS. http://www.healingcrow.com/ferfun/co...onspiracy.html

I'm a whole foods gal, so my recommendation is kefir. Easiest is milk kefir. If you can get raw milk it is much less allergenic than pasteurized, homogenized dairy. The probiotics and other microflora are in balance and are a traditional fermented food. That will help his gut most, imo. Or water kefir, if you want to avoid all casein.

Otherwise, I'd consider rotating probiotics.

Definitely, I'd avoid almond flour in the house due to your other child's peanut allergy. You may consider NAET for clearing your son of coconut (and the other of peanut) reactions. Have you considered soaking whole grains? We do the Sue Gregg blender method of soaking whole barley, spelt, Kamut, rice, and steel cut oats. http://www.suegregg.com/recipes/brea...erwafflesA.htm


Pat
Pat, thank you so very much for that link. I had forgotten all about that person, with the healing crow website. You know, we did the SCD years ago for my first child, when he was very little, and I knew then that FOS was a no-no on SCD and why it wasn't allowed.

My second child had no intestinal problems at all until this. I thought about doing the SCD again, but I thought, well, it would be so hard since we aren't doing nuts right now. BUT, I thought, I really should at least find a probiotic without FOS, but the doctor we saw recommended this from Klaire, and so many people talk about how Klaire is such a good probiotic, etc, etc. My gut was telling me maybe it wasn't right, becasue initially it caused a lot of gas and tummy rumbling, etc., but I pressed on anyway. And now I really think it was not the right thing for him. Some people may do fine with it, and it may even help them, but I think it is not right for us. I really think it caused yeast or something to overgrow for him, because after being on it for awhile, he started getting an itchy bottom, so I stopped them altogether and he had a terrible yeasty diaper rash. The doctor said, no, there is nothing in the probiotic that would cause that. But I think the FOS was the culprit. I think I am just going to make some 24 hour scd yogurt with raw milk from the local place here and try to just totally cut out the probiotics for a week and see what happens.

I react poorly to dairy, and I've really been wanting to look into making water kefir.

Does anyone know where I can get some water kefir grains?

Thank you also for the soaking grains link. I had been buying only sprouted bread, but I need to just try that.

Wow, I feel like you have just reminded me of all these things I knew to be true, but I let myself forget, or get swayed away from. Thank you, really, so much.

People should know that FOS is not a good choice for everyone. I know this for sure now. It may be the reason why some people react with such strong and violent diarrhea to probiotics.
post #257 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAmama View Post
Also, in searching for it I found this:



from this site http://www.tasteofnature.com/109.html
Anybody have any experience with it? And, where would I find actual caraway oil?
That's really interesting. I'm not sure where you would find the oil. I have caraway seeds in my kitchen. I use it in coleslaw with cabbage.

Here's another link about it saying it is good for intestinal stuff, that in combination with peppermint oil:
http://www.doctormurray.com/newsletter/1-05-2003.htm

Not sure, but eager to hear more if you find out.
post #258 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacquelineR View Post
Anyone on Threelac might find this interesting.
That's the one I was referring to. Everyone should go with their guts, but I found alot of problems with the research.
post #259 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAmama View Post
Anybody have a source for pure Nystatin? I know it has to come from Canada.

Also, in searching for it I found this:



from this site http://www.tasteofnature.com/109.html
Anybody have any experience with it? And, where would I find actual caraway oil?
I use it in castor oil packs for gut inflammation. You can get it from many essential oil companies.
post #260 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAmama View Post
Yes, I read and reread your pm's, especially after we seemed to get stuck and not move forward in healing. I really think it is the enzymes as well.
The Threelac sounds so simple, but dh is especially not comfortable with the strains in it. He would have to do more research and he definitely doesn't have time for it now. Neither do I. So, we might do the Nystatin. We can always do the Threelac later. We will get some kefir grains, finally! I am hoping that will help us as well.

This has been such a long journey and I am so tired of all of it. I really hope it is nearing an end.
I just posted this to the other thread regarding enterococcus faecalis and colon cancer concerns.

Quote:
"Bacteriocin ST8KF (bacST8KF), produced by Lactobacillus plantarum ST8KF isolated from kefir, inhibits the growth of Enterococcus faecalis E88."

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/j...TRY=1&SRETRY=0

Basically, consumption of kefir could inhibit the growth of Enterococcus faecalis. And listeria and salmonella.

http://lib.bioinfo.pl/pmid:17719671

And kefir appears to inhibit the growth of E. coli. http://lib.bioinfo.pl/auth:Vinderola,CG

I believe the presence of enterococcus faecalis without a lactic acid environment may be a variable allowing mutation. But, that is merely theoretical speculation. The second link discusses the lactic acid environment as an inhibitory process, in the presence of the other microbials in kefir, specifically.
Pat
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