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Healing The Gut Tribe! - Page 4

post #61 of 451
Good points. I think I will try the activated charcoal. I've very leery about trying any new ezymes (I know, I know... the Candex is an ezyme) because after taking my multi-ezyme formula from Kirkman Labs (hypoallergenic) for a month, I started reacting to it.

Another question- if I'm killing off yeast with the Candex, should I throw in some probiotics at the same time? Or wait until some yeast is killed off? I have some pretty potent probiotics in my fridge right now... but they also give me some die-off symptoms, so I don't know if it would be too much doing them at the same time.
post #62 of 451
Hmmm. What kind of reactions did you have to the enzymes? Personally I would think that the benefits of enzymes in this situation would outweigh some discomfort from temporary reactions, but that is of course debatable!

YES, you definitely should be pounding probiotics right now and the whole time you're doing the candex, and after. While the yeast is being killed off you want to make sure that you're providing good new bacteria to take it's place, otherwise the bad bacteria will have no competition and they will latch right on. Super important. I would take the candex on an empty stomach and take probiotics with meals.
post #63 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by joybird View Post
Hmmm. What kind of reactions did you have to the enzymes? Personally I would think that the benefits of enzymes in this situation would outweigh some discomfort from temporary reactions, but that is of course debatable!
Just all of a sudden, everything I ate started going straight through me, completely undigested (sorry TMI). Finally figured out it was the enzymes, stopped taking them, and I started digesting my food again. But I was VERY sick for about 2 weeks until I figured it out. I tried them again (just took one) a couple weeks ago, and my stomach immediately got upset... so I haven't been brave enough to go back to them.

I will start the probiotics today then too. Luckily it's the weekend, so if it totally kicks my a$$ with die-off, I can give DP all the house/baby duties.
post #64 of 451
Okay now I remember that incident! Interesting that you got better after stopping the enzymes. Did you try any other brands? The first thing I think of is that the enzymes may also have been causing a die-off reaction. They are pretty powerful, and diarrhea is usually the body's way of clearing things out. But I guess it's possible to react to anything. Let us know how you get on with your regimen!
post #65 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by joybird View Post
Okay now I remember that incident! Interesting that you got better after stopping the enzymes. Did you try any other brands? The first thing I think of is that the enzymes may also have been causing a die-off reaction. They are pretty powerful, and diarrhea is usually the body's way of clearing things out. But I guess it's possible to react to anything. Let us know how you get on with your regimen!
Weird, I know... it took me a while to figure it out that it was the enzymes. And weird that it started suddenly after taking them for a month. Oh, and no- I haven't been brave enough to try any other brands.

Another question that I just thought of- I'm drinking kombucha daily (and just started growing my first scoby!). Is there any issues of timing (like drink it separately from, or in combination with) with the enzymes, probiotics, food, etc.? Or can I drink it whenever? And will it have any effect on my regimen? (I'm hoping you will say that it will help... because I'm quite addicted now. )
post #66 of 451
I really don't know about the kombucha. I love it too. I know there is still some sugar in it, but it is also so full of good stuff. I can tell you that my dd definitely reacts to Kombucha. I have no idea why though. Probably cleansing/yeast die-off. I should try giving it to her again but every time I do her eczema comes back. Maybe I will give it a chance to do its work for a while and see. Many times she has 'reacted' to something only to get better from it later. I guess if it feels okay to you then it probably is, which might not be the answer you were looking for!
post #67 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post
OMG- It's been about an hour and a half since I took the Candex, and I am DEFINITELY feeling a reaction.

My mouth is very dry, I feel bloated- gassy & burping, a little nauseous... just a little off. No, make that a lot off. Definitely not a good feeling. Oh- and as I'm typing this, a headache has just appeared.

Is this a die-off reaction?!? And if so- should I just struggle through it, stop the Candex, or start with less (I took the suggested 2 caps)? Also, if I'm getting this much of a die-off with my first dose, does that mean that I'm just seriously overloaded with yeast?!?

I'm always nervous about reactions.... what if this is an allergic reaction instead? How would I know the difference?

I am really not feeling good....
Since you reacted to Kirkman's, unless those had fruit enzymes like papain or bromelain, I wonder if you are sensitive to the fungal origin of some enzymes?
post #68 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post

Ugh- then I have to wait to start the EPO I just bought to make sure she doesn't react to that too. I'm on day 2 of my coconut oil trial, and she's already reacting ... so I really hope these go over ok.
Have you tried these oils patch tested on skin first?
post #69 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS View Post
Since you reacted to Kirkman's, unless those had fruit enzymes like papain or bromelain, I wonder if you are sensitive to the fungal origin of some enzymes?
Yep, they have both papain and bromelain. Is that most likely what I was reacting to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS View Post
Have you tried these oils patch tested on skin first?
I have not. Will the patch test still work if it's an IgG allergy, or only for IgE?
post #70 of 451
Count me in.....
*I have a 28 month old DD who is speech delayed and has shown signs of yeast since her thrush at 2 weeks of age. She reacted a lot to my BM when I ate citrus, garlic, and other things. Most often her reaction was urine that would burn her, one time it even left a blister that didn't go away fully for 2 months. Only once did she spit up (that was when I ate a ton of garlic ). When we started solids at 8 months she began to get red bumps on her chest off and on. She also got really constipated from carrots, bananas and apples. I held off on grains till 14 months then gave her brown rice. When she gets too much fruit or bread she gets fermented smeeling bowels (like after a hard night of drinking alcohol). Her belly has always protruded, more after she started grains. She has never slept well, and has only slept more than 5 hours straight one time, most of the time she has woken many times at night. At times she would wake every 30 minutes. She is really speech delayed (maybe says a few words), and does better when I can limit the fruits and grains in her diet. She has been on a homeopathic remedy ( candida albicans) for 4 months now and does better the next day after receiving it (she will eat more and try to talk more). I have had her on CLO since 9 months, and probiotics since 2 weeks. Off and on she has had brainchild minerals and vitamins. She is very self-concious and reacts extremely to people leaving and getting cuts. She is an empath like me so I'm sure this makes it worse. I breastfed her till 2, have always tried to give her organic foods, she's never had junk food, and I try to limit her fruits and grains (which are usually gluten free except for the sourdough daddy sneaks in). I have taken her to a couple docs, but no real help. The last ND I took her to wanted to give nystatin. She also suggested this:

*Digestive Support – all products listed below can be purchased through New Beginnings at www.nbnus.com I have listed the product code next to the supplement name.
*Zyme Prime Chewable Tablets (ZYME-CHEW) – 2 tablets before every meal
AFP Chewable (PEPT-CHEW) – 2 tablets before every meal.
VSL Packets (VSL-3) – ¼ packet in water or stevia sweetened lemonade daily.
*General Support
BrainChild Spectrum Ultrasensitive Combo (SSUS-32) – this comes with both vitamins and minerals. ½ to ¾ tsp 3x/day. You can also mix this into stevia sweetened lemonade since the flavor of the vitamins and minerals is a lemon-lime taste. If you have difficulty getting the vitamins into DD 3x/day, divide the total daily dose into 2 dosages.
*Supporting Yeast Detox – purchase the products listed below at your local health food store.
Partially Ground Flax Seeds – 3 tsp/day; add this to smoothies, hot cereal, gluten-free baked goods. I add flax to GF pancakes for my kids. You do not have to serve them with maple syrup. She may just like to eat them plain with a little butter. Pamela’s GF Pancake and Baking Mix is great for any baked goods.
Magnesium Capsules – Give DD 200-300 mg at night before bed. Open the capsule and mix it in apple sauce.
Activated Charcoal – 1-2 capsules per day. You will have to find a way to disguise this in some food.
Lots of Water to keep the bowels moving. The required amount for DD is about 15-18 ounces per day.

AND, when I told her no to the nystatin she sent this:

You can add some Candex from New Beginnings if you want to try that. It is an enzyme to help break down the wall of the candida organism so that the body can get rid of it. I know you are concerned about the side effects of Nystatin, which are rare and only have a chance of occurring with extended use (more than 6 months), but you need to take into consideration the side effects of candida also. Nystatin is the mildest anti-fungal that I can prescribe. From your description, it would seem that she already does not feel well and what you have tried so far has not made a difference.
In using natural products, you are mostly left with capsules and tablets. You can find some herbal tinctures for kids that are in a glycerite form so that they will take it. I suggest that you look at Sprouts to see if you can find a glycerite form of olive leaf extract. Or you can look online. If so, give her 2 droppersful 2x/day. Olive leaf extract comes in capsule form but you would have to hide it in food or teach her to swallow capsules which may be too big for her throat.
It is my feeling that whatever is going on with DD's bowels is contributing to her speech delay. Reducing the fungal load with an anti-fungal then keeping her on herbal anti-fungals to keep the levels down is a good way to go. The assumption that this is yeast is based on her history and current symptoms. We would know more by doing further testing. The stool test which you started to do is for determining the presence of parasites and bacteria – if they are there, we know what they are and can proceed with the correct treatment.

SORRY about the length of this post, as you can guess I am extremely frustrated and desperately need help. I want to do the most natural safe thing to help her. What do you think of the ND's recommendations (aside from the nystatin)? Are they any good? Should I do something like candex and charcoal? I'm a big worry wart and have the retention of a gnat (trying to heal my own issues that cause me major brain fog), and would GREATLY appreciate any help.
THANKS!!!
post #71 of 451
Well, after my die-off symptoms this morning (after my first dose) from Candex, I wouldn't recommend it for a babe!! I'm feeling a little better tonight (haven't taken my evening dose yet), but still not great.

Calm is another mom on MDC that's been battling food sensitivities & yeast issues, and I know she swears by Nystatin. Search for the "...yeast is your friend, it is keeping you healthy.." (or something like that) thread. I know she was really for it because it's not absorbed into the body like some other anti-fungals. I'm not brave enough to dose DD with anything (I'm working on serious gut healing for me first), but I'm curious about your opinion of Nystatin (just in case I ever consider it for DD). Why don't you like it?

I'm also curious about your ND's charcoal recommendation. I thought that you weren't supposed to use it long-term??
post #72 of 451
I was always told that nystatin is harsh, and I'm a big worrywort. My instinct is that she doesn't need something strong, that just getting the right something will get it. Then there's the aprt of me that worries it's something other than yeast. We were going to do a stool test the ND wanted us to do, but it was over $250, and right now a $250 test is a bit much.
I honestly got the feeling she didn't know that much.
post #73 of 451
I don't blame you at all- I'm a worrywart too. Right now my hope/goal is that if I can heal my leaky gut, and stop flooding DD's body with poorly digested foods, in time her body can heal itself. : (Oh- and also continuing to avoid her food triggers in my diet.) I'm just too nervous to throw all these supplements/products into her tiny body, even if they are recommended by a professional.
post #74 of 451
I know exactly what you mean about the supplements. I'm so tired of taking stuff. I'm trying to wean off my thyroid and adrenals. But I also realize that for some reason I don't hold iron and will probably be on some for the rest of my life. I'm planning on getting pregnant in a few months so hopefully by then I can be off most of the supplements and my gut will be in a better place.
post #75 of 451
Changingseasons - Have you tried Houston Nutraceutical's TriEnza enzymes? It doesn't have papain or bromelian. My DD is sensitive to bromelian (pineapple) so we've used the TriEnza enzymes for a while. They've worked great for us.
post #76 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by BookGoddess View Post
Changingseasons - Have you tried Houston Nutraceutical's TriEnza enzymes? It doesn't have papain or bromelian. My DD is sensitive to bromelian (pineapple) so we've used the TriEnza enzymes for a while. They've worked great for us.
I haven't tried any other enzymes. After being so sick from the Kirkman ones... I decided that enzymes aren't for me. Maybe after a while I will be brave again.
post #77 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post
Yep, they have both papain and bromelain. Is that most likely what I was reacting to??
Yes it is possible, my DS does, and I have seen many people say they are too. Do you react to fresh (not canned) pineapple?

Quote:
Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post
I have not. Will the patch test still work if it's an IgG allergy, or only for IgE?
That's a good question, it's been very helpful in our house nonetheless.
post #78 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post
I don't blame you at all- I'm a worrywart too. Right now my hope/goal is that if I can heal my leaky gut, and stop flooding DD's body with poorly digested foods, in time her body can heal itself. : (Oh- and also continuing to avoid her food triggers in my diet.) I'm just too nervous to throw all these supplements/products into her tiny body, even if they are recommended by a professional.
This has been my approach with DS... to avoid most of the "killer" supplements. And he is still so food sensitive. Growing, thriving, teeth great... yes. Healed, not quite yet.

I don't know if I just have to hang on til the traditional age of immune system maturity, age 6 or 7, or what. Time will tell, but my holistic dietician really wants me to do more Candex and Oil of oregano with him to get to the root of the problem.

I will say healed faster and I did more of the supplements. Of course I do not have the IgE allergies that he does and an adult's immune system is different than a developing one. Just the history in our house.
post #79 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS View Post
Yes it is possible, my DS does, and I have seen many people say they are too. Do you react to fresh (not canned) pineapple?
Actually no... I was eating fresh pineapple on a rotation diet a while back with no problem.

Man, this Candex is KILLING me!!! Took it last night, went straight to bed... took it this morning, within 40 minutes- severe stomach pains (gas?).... I'm eating right now, hoping that will help!!

But wow- if this is gentle die-of... I can't even imagine what would happen if I took the strong stuff.
post #80 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeingMe View Post
I was always told that nystatin is harsh, and I'm a big worrywort. My instinct is that she doesn't need something strong, that just getting the right something will get it. Then there's the aprt of me that worries it's something other than yeast. We were going to do a stool test the ND wanted us to do, but it was over $250, and right now a $250 test is a bit much.
I honestly got the feeling she didn't know that much.
I don't know, I think her recs were quite good. Only 6% of nystatin is supposedly absorbed into the blood, however, who knows with a leaky gut. I still think enzymes are safer IMHO.

There is research on speech delay and vitamin A deficiency, see work of Dr. Mary Megson. I would give in form of high vitamin cod liver oil. Be careful with flax seeds and allergies at this age. Omega 3's from flax seeds are not converted very well in people with gut issues especially. Ditto beta carotene to vitamin A, that is why CLO is the one to choose.

Charcoal will absorb minerals and prevent body from using them too, only use away from food, such as last thing at night. This is hard to take outside of a capsule.
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