Healing The Gut Tribe! - Page 5

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

Actually no... I was eating fresh pineapple on a rotation diet a while back with no problem.

Man, this Candex is KILLING me!!! Took it last night, went straight to bed... took it this morning, within 40 minutes- severe stomach pains (gas?).... I'm eating right now, hoping that will help!!

But wow- if this is gentle die-of... I can't even imagine what would happen if I took the strong stuff.

Either you got some strong yeast going on, girl, or fungal enzymes really effect you. Could be both in that case too. How much vitamin C are you taking? Psyllium or charcoal or bentonite clay will help die off too. I've never heard of such a strong reaction to it! I'm so sorry!

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by JaneS

Either you got some strong yeast going on, girl, or fungal enzymes really effect you. Could be both in that case too. How much vitamin C are you taking? Psyllium or charcoal or bentonite clay will help die off too. I've never heard of such a strong reaction to it! I'm so sorry!

I know- what is my deal?!

I'm actually not taking Vitamin C as of a couple weeks ago... I figured out a while back that DD was reacting to the 100% guarenteed pure (no buffer) hypoallergenic ascorbic acid that I was taking , so then I got the TwinLabs sago palm C, and it seemed like she was reacting to that too. So I stopped all my supplements for a while, and I will have to reintroduce them one at a time until I figure out which ones are bad.

[joybird]

Originally Posted by BeingMe

Count me in.....
*I have a 28 month old DD who is speech delayed and has shown signs of yeast since her thrush at 2 weeks of age. She reacted a lot to my BM when I ate citrus, garlic, and other things. Most often her reaction was urine that would burn her, one time it even left a blister that didn't go away fully for 2 months. Only once did she spit up (that was when I ate a ton of garlic ). When we started solids at 8 months she began to get red bumps on her chest off and on. She also got really constipated from carrots, bananas and apples. I held off on grains till 14 months then gave her brown rice. When she gets too much fruit or bread she gets fermented smeeling bowels (like after a hard night of drinking alcohol). Her belly has always protruded, more after she started grains. She has never slept well, and has only slept more than 5 hours straight one time, most of the time she has woken many times at night. At times she would wake every 30 minutes. She is really speech delayed (maybe says a few words), and does better when I can limit the fruits and grains in her diet. She has been on a homeopathic remedy ( candida albicans) for 4 months now and does better the next day after receiving it (she will eat more and try to talk more). I have had her on CLO since 9 months, and probiotics since 2 weeks. Off and on she has had brainchild minerals and vitamins. She is very self-concious and reacts extremely to people leaving and getting cuts. She is an empath like me so I'm sure this makes it worse. I breastfed her till 2, have always tried to give her organic foods, she's never had junk food, and I try to limit her fruits and grains (which are usually gluten free except for the sourdough daddy sneaks in). I have taken her to a couple docs, but no real help. The last ND I took her to wanted to give nystatin. She also suggested this:

*Digestive Support – all products listed below can be purchased through New Beginnings at www.nbnus.com I have listed the product code next to the supplement name.
*Zyme Prime Chewable Tablets (ZYME-CHEW) – 2 tablets before every meal
AFP Chewable (PEPT-CHEW) – 2 tablets before every meal.
VSL Packets (VSL-3) – ¼ packet in water or stevia sweetened lemonade daily.
*General Support
BrainChild Spectrum Ultrasensitive Combo (SSUS-32) – this comes with both vitamins and minerals. ½ to ¾ tsp 3x/day. You can also mix this into stevia sweetened lemonade since the flavor of the vitamins and minerals is a lemon-lime taste. If you have difficulty getting the vitamins into DD 3x/day, divide the total daily dose into 2 dosages.
*Supporting Yeast Detox – purchase the products listed below at your local health food store.
Partially Ground Flax Seeds – 3 tsp/day; add this to smoothies, hot cereal, gluten-free baked goods. I add flax to GF pancakes for my kids. You do not have to serve them with maple syrup. She may just like to eat them plain with a little butter. Pamela’s GF Pancake and Baking Mix is great for any baked goods.
Magnesium Capsules – Give DD 200-300 mg at night before bed. Open the capsule and mix it in apple sauce.
Activated Charcoal – 1-2 capsules per day. You will have to find a way to disguise this in some food.
Lots of Water to keep the bowels moving. The required amount for DD is about 15-18 ounces per day.

AND, when I told her no to the nystatin she sent this:

You can add some Candex from New Beginnings if you want to try that. It is an enzyme to help break down the wall of the candida organism so that the body can get rid of it. I know you are concerned about the side effects of Nystatin, which are rare and only have a chance of occurring with extended use (more than 6 months), but you need to take into consideration the side effects of candida also. Nystatin is the mildest anti-fungal that I can prescribe. From your description, it would seem that she already does not feel well and what you have tried so far has not made a difference.
In using natural products, you are mostly left with capsules and tablets. You can find some herbal tinctures for kids that are in a glycerite form so that they will take it. I suggest that you look at Sprouts to see if you can find a glycerite form of olive leaf extract. Or you can look online. If so, give her 2 droppersful 2x/day. Olive leaf extract comes in capsule form but you would have to hide it in food or teach her to swallow capsules which may be too big for her throat.
It is my feeling that whatever is going on with DD's bowels is contributing to her speech delay. Reducing the fungal load with an anti-fungal then keeping her on herbal anti-fungals to keep the levels down is a good way to go. The assumption that this is yeast is based on her history and current symptoms. We would know more by doing further testing. The stool test which you started to do is for determining the presence of parasites and bacteria – if they are there, we know what they are and can proceed with the correct treatment.

SORRY about the length of this post, as you can guess I am extremely frustrated and desperately need help. I want to do the most natural safe thing to help her. What do you think of the ND's recommendations (aside from the nystatin)? Are they any good? Should I do something like candex and charcoal? I'm a big worry wart and have the retention of a gnat (trying to heal my own issues that cause me major brain fog), and would GREATLY appreciate any help.
THANKS!!!

I'll give you my opinion. In this circumstance I would not hesitate to give Nystatin of any of the herbal or natural remedies your ND has suggested. From reading her suggestions, it sounds like she actually knows quite a bit.

It sounds like your dd is pretty severely affected, since she is having cognitive and speech difficulties. I would absolutely do everything I could to get her gut cleared as much as possible. The longer her gut is in this shape, the harder it is going to be for her to heal. The ND is right, you really should be more concerned about what is already happening to her than the slight (and very unlikely) chance than any of these remedies will hurt her. They are all known to be very,very safe. That is why your ND is suggesting them.

She has given you same really good advice. I wish someone had given me all of that information when I began this journey. Truly, I would start with the Nystatin and then move on to the other anti-fungals, rotated. If you decide to do it, try to get the Nystatin in powder or pills that you can crush, because the liquid kind is filled with nasty preservatives, flavors, etc. I would absolutely introduce digestive enzymes. The only thing I don't see on your ND's list is probiotics, but you might want to wait with those until some of the yeast is cleared anyway.

Good luck to you both mama.

[peelpower]

A few friends with autistic children (mild to severe) have attempted to redo their child's diet, making it gluten and casein free. I am just wondering how many mothers have had any luck in restructuring their child's diet? They say it takes some pre-planning and extra work, but they feel it is worth it.

Also, my friend has had excellent results with her 7-year old and mangosteen juice - it has really helped his speech, interaction, and gut issues. Check out www.autismimprovement.org

[changingseasons]

Ok, I am D.O.N.E. with enzymes. My stomach felt better after eating breakfast, but then (sorry again TMI) the big D started... which is exactly what happened with the other enzymes that I was taking.

I've been googling and googling and googling, and everything that I've read said that there are NO reports of side effects like these... so the only thing I can think is that my body just can't tolerate enzymes. Big bummer.

Oh- in my Googling, I came across this website which worried me a little, because it says that the Candex enzymes are cultured on a dairy base!! But then I noticed that the nutritional information and ingredients they have listed for it are completely different than the bottle... so maybe this is an old formula? Who knows. I will be curious to see if the company ever emails me back in response to my questions about what derivatives are used in the process.

[BeingMe]

Originally Posted by joybird

I'll give you my opinion. In this circumstance I would not hesitate to give Nystatin of any of the herbal or natural remedies your ND has suggested. From reading her suggestions, it sounds like she actually knows quite a bit.

It sounds like your dd is pretty severely affected, since she is having cognitive and speech difficulties. I would absolutely do everything I could to get her gut cleared as much as possible. The longer her gut is in this shape, the harder it is going to be for her to heal. The ND is right, you really should be more concerned about what is already happening to her than the slight (and very unlikely) chance than any of these remedies will hurt her. They are all known to be very,very safe. That is why your ND is suggesting them.

She has given you same really good advice. I wish someone had given me all of that information when I began this journey. Truly, I would start with the Nystatin and then move on to the other anti-fungals, rotated. If you decide to do it, try to get the Nystatin in powder or pills that you can crush, because the liquid kind is filled with nasty preservatives, flavors, etc. I would absolutely introduce digestive enzymes. The only thing I don't see on your ND's list is probiotics, but you might want to wait with those until some of the yeast is cleared anyway.

Good luck to you both mama.

I actually have a compounded liquid nystatin from a local pharmacy that did it for my daughter in my fridge. They said it was only good for a month but it has till 2009 on it (maybe it's only a month once opened). I really would like to do that as a last resort.
What if I added enzymes, like the ones you take with food to help break them down, first? I really want to help her, but again, I am so fearful of doing something I will regret. What would be the next step without going too harsh? The enzymes, then the candex?
Thanks for all your help, I appreciate it so much!

[BeingMe]

Originally Posted by JaneS

I don't know, I think her recs were quite good. Only 6% of nystatin is supposedly absorbed into the blood, however, who knows with a leaky gut. I still think enzymes are safer IMHO.

There is research on speech delay and vitamin A deficiency, see work of Dr. Mary Megson. I would give in form of high vitamin cod liver oil. Be careful with flax seeds and allergies at this age. Omega 3's from flax seeds are not converted very well in people with gut issues especially. Ditto beta carotene to vitamin A, that is why CLO is the one to choose.

Charcoal will absorb minerals and prevent body from using them too, only use away from food, such as last thing at night. This is hard to take outside of a capsule.

That's my thoughts on the nystatin, I'm fearful it may get into her system more because of the leaky gut. I ate tons of wheat when I was pregnant with her till she was 3 months, which was before I realized I was sensitive and knew better.
As for the CLO I was thinking of switching to Blue Ice but I can't seem to find anything about being 3rd party tested. I do remember the flaxseed issue, which shocked me to read her recommending for my daughter. Both because she is a child and I remember reading that children have a harder time converting, and because she already shows digestion problems.
What enzymes do you think would be good for my 28 month dd? Which are the least reactive? Should I start with food enzymes first, then if that doesn't work try candex or something similar?
Thanks for all your help Jane!

[joybird]

I think enzymes are a great place to start. The Houston's that she recommended are exactly what we used. Be aware, though, that there is an adjustment period with enzymes while they are starting to clear out the gut. It may look like things are getting worse before they get better and that is very common. My dd's eczema flared big time, her moods were awful, she had potty accidents and some other weird stuff. But after a week or two, the improvement was drastic. I started taking them too and definitely experienced some die-off.

Enzymes are completely safe. Have you looked at this website? It's a wealth of information and gives detailed explanations for starting enzymes, etc.

www.enzymestuff.com

About the Nystatin, you could call the pharmacy and make sure it's still ok. The compound probably isn't as stable as the regular liquid. If you are really against it, I would try the Olive Leaf or Oil of Oregano instead.

All CLO imported into the US has to be third party tested for impurities. The Blue Ice is definitely fine.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by BeingMe

That's my thoughts on the nystatin, I'm fearful it may get into her system more because of the leaky gut. I ate tons of wheat when I was pregnant with her till she was 3 months, which was before I realized I was sensitive and knew better.
As for the CLO I was thinking of switching to Blue Ice but I can't seem to find anything about being 3rd party tested. I do remember the flaxseed issue, which shocked me to read her recommending for my daughter. Both because she is a child and I remember reading that children have a harder time converting, and because she already shows digestion problems.
What enzymes do you think would be good for my 28 month dd? Which are the least reactive? Should I start with food enzymes first, then if that doesn't work try candex or something similar?
Thanks for all your help Jane!

All about CLO from Dave Wetzel who sells Blue Ice:
http://www.westonaprice.org/modernfo...nufacture.html

The Houston enzymes are very good, she may be sensitive to the fructose but you have to try and see. My DS couldn't handle the fruit enzymes, he did okay on the AFP, all fungal protein, versions of Houston's. Opening the capsules and mixing it with food is also okay but it's hard to do. When my son was 3 he learned how to swallow capsules.

I would start with enzyme with meals slooooowly, see starting recs from the Enzymestuff website, and then move to enzymes between meals.

[BeingMe]

so much Joy and Jane. If I could I'd give you a big . Thank you, off to buy some enzymes and some blue ice.

[BeingMe]

Oops a couple more questions before I order....

#1 For clarification, do I get both the zyme prime and the afp? And do I give them like she recommended, 2 tablets of each before every meal?

#2And what about the VSL#3 packets for probiotics, are they better than her Natren Life Start, and the Ultimate Probiotic by Natural Factor with Doctor Murray?

#3**And should I give her the brainchild like she recommended?
---BrainChild Spectrum Ultrasensitive Combo (SSUS-32) – this comes with both vitamins and minerals. ½ to ¾ tsp 3x/day. You can also mix this into stevia sweetened lemonade since the flavor of the vitamins and minerals is a lemon-lime taste. If you have difficulty getting the vitamins into DD 3x/day, divide the total daily dose into 2 dosages.

#4 Do I gve the magnesium and charcoal for detox like she recommended and for how long? Here's her rec's:
----Supporting Yeast Detox – purchase the products listed below at your local health food store.
*Magnesium Capsules – Give DD 200-300 mg at night before bed. Open the capsule and mix it in apple sauce.
*Activated Charcoal – 1-2 capsules per day. You will have to find a way to disguise this in some food.
*Lots of Water to keep the bowels moving. The required amount for DD is about 15-18 ounces per day.

#5 I'm alittle confused about this part:
"In using natural products, you are mostly left with capsules and tablets. You can find some herbal tinctures for kids that are in a glycerite form so that they will take it. I suggest that you look at Sprouts to see if you can find a glycerite form of olive leaf extract. Or you can look online. If so, give her 2 droppersful 2x/day. Olive leaf extract comes in capsule form but you would have to hide it in food or teach her to swallow capsules which may be too big for her throat."
Do I just ignore it for now, or is there something in there I should be doing as well?

Again, THANK YOU!!

[BookGoddess]

I haven't heard of anyone giving activated charcoal every day as another supplement. It's used when it's needed. And it needs to be kept apart from other supplements and medicines unless the situation is such the person is experiencing such distress and die-off that taking the charcoal is the best thing to do.

I use Zyme Prime for myself but it has bromelain (pineapple based enzymes). I forgot if you or your loved one is sensitive to pineapple but if you are then Zyme Prime isn't for you.

Nystatin didn't cause any reaction in my preschool aged child. It's safe and has a long track record of safety. Plus it doesn't have systematic effects. It stays in the gut. It doesn't go beyond the gut to affect other body organs. Make sure you get it from a compounded pharmacy because sometimes Nystatin has a lot of crap like artificial colors and flavors. Ours doesn't because it comes from a compounded pharmacy.

[BeingMe]

Thank you BookGoddess. I'm not sure if she has sensitivites to pineapple. I really try to limit her fruit because she gets pimply rashes on her chest, she starts smelling yeasty in her private area, and her attitude gets worse(along with the whining). I know she used to get burns from citrus, but I'm not sure if she does anymore. Maybe I will give her a test run of pineapple tomorrow.
The nystatin I have is from a compounded pharmacy but I'm holding off in hopes that the enzymes will get it under control.
Thanks again for your help!

[joybird]

No problem at all. The mamas here held my hand as I was going through this too.

Houston's will send you a detailed instruction sheet, but I started with one cap of ZymePrime with meals. After she stabilized on that I added in one cap of AFP Peptizyde between meals, and eventually added one cap of NoFenol with the Peptizyde. Like Jane, I also taught my dd to swallow capsules at 2 1/2 so we used the Zyme Prime capsules w/cellulose and the AFP Peptizyde capsules which have no papain/bromelain.

I *think* the Natren and Natural Factor have dairy in them so I didn't use those. Right now I'm using some from Kirkman Labs. The VSL is definitely stronger and will help with any bacterial issues she might have, and she likely does if she's dealing with yeast. I'd start with that.

I don't know anything about the Brainchild. Is it mostly just a vitamin/mineral? If so it can't hurt. I'll look this up 'cause now I am curious . . . Okay yeah it is a multivitamin. I'd do it.

Magnesium should be fine. Charcoal needs to be given away from any supplements or food because it will absorb nutrients as well as toxins. Other than that it is safe.

I'd start with that and then when you feel confident enough you can think about adding in the herbal tinctures. It might be best to start things slowly so as not to overwhelm her with everything all at once. Not that it would be dangerous at all, but it is possible she will be feeling a little discomfort, and also for your own self, so that you don't feel overwhelmed or nervous by starting too much all at one time. Once you have started the healing regimen, you will have plenty of time and space to push things further as you see fit. And it will help you to see what is working and what isn't.

ETA: ZymePrime does not have papain/bromelain but the other version called HN ZymePrime does have them. I'd go for the one without.

[mommyshoppinghabit]

I think someone asked before in this thread, but is anyone else doing a cleanse just for general overall health, not for any obvious yeast-related complaints? I mean, anyone who eats a pretty mainsteam diet could benefit, right? But in that case, would one wait until after they are not nursing anymore?

[joybird]

Originally Posted by mommyshoppinghabit

I think someone asked before in this thread, but is anyone else doing a cleanse just for general overall health, not for any obvious yeast-related complaints? I mean, anyone who eats a pretty mainsteam diet could benefit, right? But in that case, would one wait until after they are not nursing anymore?

I did a psyllium/bentonite cleanse but I waited until my dd was 3 and not nursing as much. I don't know if you'd need to wait that long though. Neither of those things are absorbed and the bentonite adsorbs toxins and flushes them out, so it doesn't seem like it would be harmful to a babe. The herbal additions I would probably wait for though.

[BookGoddess]

Yes, it's the HN Zyme Prime that has the pineapple enzymes, not Zyme Prime. Zyme Prime doesn't have papaya or pineapple.

[Nanethiel]

Hello!

Hello everybody!

changingseasons made me aware of this Tribe in another thread. Thank you, and here I am!

I'll try to keep this as brief as possible.

I'm 33 years old, my (first) child is now a little over 9 months old. Super nice homebirth, no vaccinations, no medications. Over the next few weeks we found out that he's reacting to almost everything I eat and I have been on a TED ever since. It's starting to mess with my head!

There's no way I would eat anything that would cause him having a reaction (it's not much I can eat), but I need things to change. I cannot afford to loose any more weight - it's starting to get/look scary!

We've tried a lot of different things and have been working with a wonderful doctor who specializes in immunology - he muscle tests, too! Barberry would have been really good for me, but you can't do that when breastfeeding.

So, thanks to Calm on another thread, I'm going to jump onto the "get rid of the (possible) yeast" wagon and give it a try.

I'm currently trying to figure out what to get/what to take. I can't do the Nystatin (sensitive liver). I was thinking of doing Oil of Oregano, a pro-biotic and an enzyme. It's going to be a challenge - my LO is highly sensitive.

And, of course, any advice from anybody who has been there is very much appreciated!

This might sound stupid, and I don't mean it in a mean way at all, but I am glad that there is others who have the same issue. I mean, it sucks that we have to go through this and I don't wish it on anybody, but I have been feeling so lonely and not understood, because none of my family/friends can truly understand how it is..

Anyways.. *hugs* to all of you!

[Nanethiel]

Originally Posted by Nanethiel

I was thinking of doing Oil of Oregano,

Bummer. I just read that it has been known to decrease milk supply. Has anybody experienced this?

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by Nanethiel

This might sound stupid, and I don't mean it in a mean way at all, but I am glad that there is others who have the same issue. I mean, it sucks that we have to go through this and I don't wish it on anybody, but I have been feeling so lonely and not understood, because none of my family/friends can truly understand how it is..

Anyways.. *hugs* to all of you!

Totally understand. Everyone IRL thinks that I am making this whole allergy thing up. Ok, not really... but sometimes it seems like they think that way. And with no support from doctors (so far), it gets really hard. I wouldn't have made it through without the mamas on MDC!!!