Avoiding fantasy - non fiction books?

[KBecks]

I have been skimming Montessori, the Science Behind the Genius -- I read a few pages at a time now and jump around the sections due to time constraints.

Anyway, so I was reading last night about fantasy and in particular how Montessori rejected fairy tales and prefers reality. (Such a contrast to Waldorf, wow!) It made me consider the books we have in our kids' collections and so much of it is characters, talking animals, etc. it's fiction.

It made me wonder if I should shift our reading materials, and television viewing (yes we watch TV) to non-fiction books and TV documentaries. I was already requesting some documentaries from Netlflix on dolphins, etc because I think they will be interesting to our kids.

OK, so what do you think? I'm mostly relaxed about this, not freaking because my kids enjoy books and characters and stories and I don't think I'm damaging them, but at the same time I'm considering introducing more reality based materials.

What do you think?

[GuildJenn]

I write fiction so I'm a little biased in both directions - there's nothing wrong with a good story, but good fiction is almost always based on concrete physical details, even if those are details about made up things.

Anyways, in our house we have tried to build a library of both fiction and non-fiction and then just let our son choose.

At this age (3), 90% of the time he gravitates either towards complete non-fiction, or stories that "sound true."

[Oriole]

I love many parts of Montessori philosophy, but... why in the world would I deprive my kids of the wealth of magic that fairy tales offer to kids and adults alike?.. Childhood should be magical, if someone told me that animals can't talk so I shouldn't play that way, or that I should stop enjoying my favorite books as a kid, I'd be very very sad.

Please don't do that to your kid
I believe that key to life is balance. I'd concentrate on creating a balance in your kid's life... that they are exposed to fairy tales, and magic play as well as reality. If your child is ever drawn to a certain story, why would you withhold it from him/her?.. For what good reason? Because "Montessori says so?". I have very high oppinion of Maria Montessori, but I sure will trust my judgement and the smile on my child's face than a wonderful lady from Italy who's never known either myself or my kid...

Since when Puddington Bear and Winnie the Pooh, and Brothers Grimm's tales are off limits to the kids? Do you plan to raise your kids in the household where classics are prohibited because they are not approved by your school?

I love parts of Waldorf, and other parts from Montessori. This might be pushing my own thought on others, but you are welcome to ignore any part of my post you don't agree with... For myself, I believe that embracing one to the point where you stop exposing your child to the other side (be it magic or reality) is not very balanced, and therefore not very healthy.

Think about it, all cultures from every continent are rich with folklore that involves talking animals. Can't be that bad

best of luck on either decision.

[KBecks]

Hey Oriole, I'm not going to purge our library of all books with characters, etc. I'm thinking of expanding it with more reality-based stories.

In a quick summary of what I've read, children under 6 have a harder time separating fantasy from reality. It referenced a study that kids who read books about real trains vs. kids that read books about trains that talk and do human things, and then they taught the kids info about real trains and there was more confusion among the kids who had read the "pretend" books. It also talked about providing honesty to kids in terms of not pretending about things like Santa, etc. Montessori said that it's adults who put fantasy concepts onto kids, not kids creating fantasy on their own, and that kids play house, because they are interested in real housekeeping, and they prefer as much learning about reality as they can get.

Anyway, as I said, I'm not purging our stuff, but I found this very interesting and see it as an opportunity to introduce more books and media that explore reality subjects.

[Oriole]

Originally Posted by KBecks

Hey Oriole, I'm not going to purge our library of all books with characters, etc. I'm thinking of expanding it with more reality-based stories.

In a quick summary of what I've read, children under 6 have a harder time separating fantasy from reality. It referenced a study that kids who read books about real trains vs. kids that read books about trains that talk and do human things, and then they taught the kids info about real trains and there was more confusion among the kids who had read the "pretend" books. It also talked about providing honesty to kids in terms of not pretending about things like Santa, etc. Montessori said that it's adults who put fantasy concepts onto kids, not kids creating fantasy on their own, and that kids play house, because they are interested in real housekeeping, and they prefer as much learning about reality as they can get.

Anyway, as I said, I'm not purging our stuff, but I found this very interesting and see it as an opportunity to introduce more books and media that explore reality subjects.

Oh I see. Well, I would argue that confusion over the talking trains is not going to stay there for life, of course they'll figure out that trains don't have names and don't talk to each other. It's kind of like extended breastfeeding and co-sleeping: they are not going to sleep in your bed when they are 20 or ask for a breast in high-school. At the same time, who knows if by limiting fantasy play we would limit imaginative and creative develoment as a skill?

On the other hand, as a kid I remember loving all kinds of nature shows, and our 7 volume comprehensive Animal World encyclopedia was one of my favorite things to flip through at a very young age. I think there is nothing wrong with providing real-life opportunities for your child. I just wouldn't stop buying fairy tales either, kwim?

[KBecks]

To everyone, any favorite materials or books about non-fiction topics? I'm thinking of a lot of nature things and history things, but I want to find things that are interesting and age-appropriate for a 3-4 year old. I've looked in the past at books on dinosaurs and the solar system, etc at Amazon but so much of it is geared towards older grades.

[nkm1968]

I think a lot of what we read as fiction...

is realistic fiction at my house. For instance, the Junie B Jones books (Fiona is just mad for them, we've read each book at least 5 times), the Ramona chapter books, almost all of those enchanting Shirley Hughes "Alfie and Annie Rose" books, Misty of Chincoteague, Hoot, Stargirl, almost all of our nightly read-alouds ARE realistic (but fiction!). Right now we are reading "The wheel on the School," and Fiona LOVES it. Obviously, she's older than your guys, so its less "picture" books and more "chapter" books, but a LOT of our "picture" books were realistic, too. Favorites from that age :
"Growing Vegetable Soup" and all the other gardening books by Lois Ehlert, all of those "Rookie Read About" geography books (great way to supplement the maps/culutral work at school), "All the Places to Love" by Patricia Maclaughlin, "One Morning in Maine" by Robert McCloskey, Tana Hoban's photographic books of counting, shapes, etc, Bruce McMillans photography picture books on almost any subject, "The Snowy Day" and everything else by Ezra Jack Keats.....tons more.

We do have our fair share of purely whimsical books and poetry too and look forward to reading Harry Potter and all of Roald Dahl and all of EB White, and have already done all the wonderful picture-book fantasy stuff (favorites: Sendak, Steig, and the wonderful Frances books by Russel Hoban), but right now, Fiona prefers realistic fiction, and I am not sure if that is from 5 years of Montessori, or growing up in our household, or both, but either way, we spend a lot more time grounded in reality than other kids we know.

[nkm1968]

Oh yeah one more thing.....I volunteered for the last 3 years to be the "Library" parent for Fi's Casa classroom, which taught me a lot about what kind of books her directress felt supplemented the curriculum, and I learned a LOT about using the County Library Search engine to find realistic books with great photos/illustrations, not too wordy, in the content areas she needed (for example, in May, she needed books on birds, butterflys and their lifecycles, Austrailia, rain/water cycle, and clocks/time, and this included little non-fiction reference books as well as realistic picture-books).

The coolest thing is now being able to find excellent realistic picture books that also provide an extension of the classroom studies. For example, the Caldecott Honor book "Hush! A Thai Lullabye" was a hit with the extended day kids when they were focusing on Asia in the cultural part of the classroom.

[Koloe]

My DD likes these 2 books:

"I Like Bugs" by Margaret Wise Brown
http://www.amazon.com/I-Like-Bugs-St...5017902&sr=8-5

"Bugs! Bugs! Bugs!" by Bob Barner
http://www.amazon.com/Bugs-Bob-Barne...5018031&sr=8-1

She is into books about bugs, monsters, and potty training. Obviously the "monster" ones are not exactly "realistic". LOL I think it's better to have both types of literature available. The thought of taking all the "magic" out of life seems kind of sad to me. But then I've always loved fairly tales and fantasy books.

[Lingmom]

I agree with Oriole on the balance part.

Otherwise, I just take my kids to the library and let them choose what they want to read. And we check those out.

[KBecks]

Originally Posted by Koloe

My DD likes these 2 books:

"I Like Bugs" by Margaret Wise Brown
http://www.amazon.com/I-Like-Bugs-St...5017902&sr=8-5

"Bugs! Bugs! Bugs!" by Bob Barner
http://www.amazon.com/Bugs-Bob-Barne...5018031&sr=8-1

She is into books about bugs, monsters, and potty training. Obviously the "monster" ones are not exactly "realistic". LOL I think it's better to have both types of literature available. The thought of taking all the "magic" out of life seems kind of sad to me. But then I've always loved fairly tales and fantasy books.

Thank you for these recommendations! Alek loves bugs, and he loves earthworms. We also enjoy monsters, pretending mom and dad are monsters chasing the kids as long as it's not too scary.

[Rose-Roget]

I agree that it's a matter of balance. We like factual books sometimes, and believe in being honest with my son about how things work and about life. But I totally agree with pp's that fantasy and magic are wonderful parts of being a kid if it's not scary to them (and I would never take away the idea of Santa or the like, even if I agree with a lot of the things in the M philosophy).

[MattBronsil]

I'm a ventriloquist that has a talking dog. Fantasy enough? ;-)

I think it is important to help a child of this age to begin to distinguish fantasy from reality. I agree they cannot do it naturally. I agree it can be manipulative at times.

Adding more reality options to his reading will enhance things. You're right that many of the books are geared towards older children, so it is sometimes difficult. I think we need more books written geared towards this age that are reality-based.

Matt

[Anandamama]

I think the idea is that young children need real information in order to feel empowered and be able to participate in their environment more fully. Anyone with young kids knows that they have trouble distinguishing between fantasy and fact. My 1.5 yr old cannot yet tell the difference between fake fruit and real fruit. I remember being terrified of "monsters" from the time I was 2 or 3. There were monsters everywhere, especially at night, in my room. I wonder where I got this idea from if not from fairy tales and even books like "Where the Wild Things Are".
She is very drawn to real-skills types of activities. Today we were at a store and I showed her a doll and also a bug catcher that could be opened and closed. She completely ignored the doll in favor of wanting to practice opening and closing the container.
I also know from experience that kids who are exposed to a lot of joking, sarcasm, fantasy, etc. will catch on earlier to what these various modes of communicating mean, faster than other kids. I think it is appropriate to expose your kids to fairy tales, and other stories that are important within your culture. Because that is also about adapting to and knowing about your culture. But I'd say save more of that stuff until they are at least around 5 yrs old.
Give your kids the choice and I think you'll see them more often drawn to the true stories. They are hungry for real information about their world. And it is kind of hard to find good, non-fiction books for little kids. There is such a proliferation of silly ones with talking animals.

[nkm1968]

And too many fantasy" books..

....are actually cleverly-packaged tie-ins to movies and TV shows!! Last year, Fi's school had a Scholastic Books book fair, and most of the "picture" books were about Dora the Explora, Spongebob, Bob the Builder, the Backyardigans, Barbie (!!!!), Fairly Odd Parents, etc, etc, etc.

I have a freaking hard enough time keeping my kids away from the TV, and now a bookfair is encouraging them to watch even more!

That aside, I see the value of both realistic as well as fantasy-imaginative books in childhood, although both of my DDs preferred more realistic stories when very young.

I wonder where in Montessori nursery rhymes have their place. Because from a neurocognitive development perspective, they are SOOOOOOO rich in rhythm, interpersonal warmth and empathy, language development, counting, and humor...I've always read them (as well as taught both DDs handclaps, jump rope rhymes, and riddles from my own childhood) but have never come across them in the Montessori classroom. The closest was the use of different Robert Louis Stevenson poems from "A Child's Garden of Verses" for handwriting pratice for DD1....although DD2's Casa directress read a lot of Shakespear's Sonnets (why, I don't know. I don't understand like 90% of them) and poetry by WB Yeats.

[tatermom]

My DS loves the Magic School Bus books-- the original ones are best, not the beginning reader version or the ones written from the tv show (which we have not seen). He and I have learned a lot from those books! How an electrical power plant works, how the water filtration system functions, how bees make a hive, all about the different parts of the ocean, etc etc. They are really wonderful books with lots of factual yet easy to digest information.

FWIW we have books of all kinds in our house and the kids are free to pick what ever they want to read. I loved fantasy books as a kid, and I would never want to deprive my DS of those!

ETA: here is one of our favorites; there are so many versions out there since the series has become so commercialized, but really, the original ones are great!

http://www.amazon.com/Magic-School-E...5052146&sr=8-1

[MattBronsil]

Originally Posted by tatermom

ETA: here is one of our favorites; there are so many versions out there since the series has become so commercialized, but really, the original ones are great!

http://www.amazon.com/Magic-School-E...5052146&sr=8-1

Ugh. I have to teach from the magic school bus here at the school where I am teaching English. Imagine 20 five-year-olds who don't speak English trying to grasp that a sea anemone opens and closes depending on the amount of water that is there.

Great information, just a pain in the butt to try to teach when the rest of our curriculum leaves no room for real vocabulary development which I can actually use as a base to explain these things.

Can you tell that I miss Montessori?

[Flor]

We have both, though when ds was littler he did prefer non-fiction about animals,trucks, knights, etc. Now that he is almost 5, he likes to hear Narnia, Spiderwick Chronicles, etc.

[wrzos]

I struggle with this too - and so am pleased to see some of the recommendations made. Right now, my ds (3.5) likes mostly reality based books. We have some easy reader and step into reading books from my sis (public school teacher) on wolves, dinosaurs, snakes, etc. He really likes these - even when they run 60 pages long with tons of facts. We went to the zoo yesterday and he was trying to find the clear protective cap over the snakes eyes... (something from the snake book).

That said, he LOVES, LOVES, LOVES books like Stellaluna, I'm Bad (a dinosaur book), Mike Mulligan & his steam shovel, Clara the Caterpillar, and gosh - I'm blanking on more titles, but you get the idea.

He went through a phase around 2 years old where he was really into all the Suess books. Completely fictional books, but he loved the rhythm/rhymes in them. Now, not so much.

I think he is really starting to get the difference b/n real and pretend though, so the funny thing is that now that I'm not as interested in introducing him to reality books, that is all his is interested in! LOL He will still display irrational fears, but has begun stating things like 'caterpillars can't talk' - etc. We actually discussed this at the zoo yesterday as well, b/c I corrected him on the gorillas - they can 'talk' to each other, just not using words like we do. Point being that he is questioning fantasy stuff and making assumptions (some correct, some not) about what is possible. Much earlier than I expected him too...

[shrinkmom]

I appreciate several of the comments about finding a balance with the fantasy and nonfiction materials. I know that social and emotional development is a valued component in Montessori education and I do believe that it can be enhanced through works of fiction. Although I'm new to Montessori and don't know how this component is or isn't addressed through literature, (though I'd be interested in finding out) I can speak from my experience as a mother and psychologist. My son and many children I have worked with have learned valuable lessons and addressed their emotional/behavioral concerns effectively through the use of oral and written storytelling. Sometimes children find it safer to communicate through the imagery of animals, etc.