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Expecting soon - help me sway DP - Page 2

post #21 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by A&A View Post
Here are a couple of articles for YOU to read. NOT to show your dh:

http://www.stopcirc.com/vincent/vuln...ty_of_men.html

http://www.noharmm.org/feminist.htm




And this is one that you should show your dh:

http://www.noharmm.org/appeal.htm

This is what I was looking for. The first one really helped me to think about it from a different perspective. The second was great for the historical aspect. Thanks for not flaming me & sharing your resources.
post #22 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim919 View Post
I agree with you 100%. My son won't be circ'd either way- I'm trying to get my dp to agree with me to avoid resentment over the issue.

I called our local hospital and the circ rate is 95%.

The people who are not circ'd around here are the ones without health insurance - hense the social stigma.
I'm sure its much, much lower than that. For some reason, that's what a lot of hospitals say, while at the same time a lot of people are not getting cut. Something does not hold up here; and I think its the poor reports from the hospitals. I don't think that many actually keep exact statistics. For example, I really doubt that some secretary would know the exact number of circs. Which state is this and is this in a small town?

By the way, what social stigma? You mean the imaginary one. And I think it would be hard to say who circs. or who does not. To say its the people without insurance is not necessarily accurate. I come from a highly educated family and very well insured family and I am intact. The same goes for many other people.

I personally don't know the circ. status of most my friends. I don't care and vice versa. Most guys on this planet are not circed; so I don't feel alone or like some outcast or something. That's stupid. So, there is no stigma; only fantasies.
post #23 of 69
I haven't read the replies but for my DH the big thing two arguements were 1) that a baby could loose their penis and 2) that they loose up to 25% of length. His (in)famous quote is "I gotta help out my little dude."
post #24 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim919 View Post
This is what I was looking for. The first one really helped me to think about it from a different perspective. The second was great for the historical aspect. Thanks for not flaming me & sharing your resources.


Glad to be of help!
post #25 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisdude23 View Post
I'm sure its much, much lower than that. For some reason, that's what a lot of hospitals say, while at the same time a lot of people are not getting cut. Something does not hold up here; and I think its the poor reports from the hospitals. I don't think that many actually keep exact statistics. For example, I really doubt that some secretary would know the exact number of circs. Which state is this and is this in a small town?

By the way, what social stigma? You mean the imaginary one. And I think it would be hard to say who circs. or who does not. To say its the people without insurance is not necessarily accurate. I come from a highly educated family and very well insured family and I am intact. The same goes for many other people.

I personally don't know the circ. status of most my friends. I don't care and vice versa. Most guys on this planet are not circed; so I don't feel alone or like some outcast or something. That's stupid. So, there is no stigma; only fantasies.
I've heard of instances where the insurance company gets billed for the circ when it doesn't actually happen. So possibly they bill 95% of the time when it's covered, but they never bill medicaid b/c it's not covered. I keep meaning to track down the hospital bill from DS's birth to see what's on it.
post #26 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by New_Natural_Mom View Post
Um, my son is uncirced and he is none of those things. I am studying for an EdD, am a Marketing Manager...my DH is an Electrical Engineer. I think we are pretty educated. We aren't poor (but not "wealthy"). I personally feel not-circing is the sign of a highly educated person. These people have researched and understood what most of the uneducated "sheeple" don't - that circ is wrong.
I agree here...DH and I both have college degrees. He's a business owner and I'm starting on PhD work in education. When I had my DS in 2005 the pedi told us that now the % of non-circ is about 50%.
post #27 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovemyavery View Post
2) that they loose up to 25% of length.
Does someone have a source for this so I can add it to my page/pamphlet/circ-ing repertoire?
post #28 of 69
Just chiming in as another v. educated family with professional jobs who have an intact little boy. And if your DH saw us walking through the supermarket woudn't presume us to be crunchy hippe types by any stretch of the imagination so he can't make it seem like it's something only crazy hippies do

I am sure the Penn and Teller video would convince him. And the men's health magazine article as well.

Look at is this way - if you lived in a country where most people circumcise their little girls would he want you to give into the social pressure to have it done? You've got to stick with your principles because at the end of the day it's your own conscience you have live with and if you know it's not right you're going to hate youself for letting happen.
post #29 of 69
I don't see how anyone flamed you. Letting you know it's not cool to be prejudice against poor people, or migrant workers is not flaming. I don't know how I could read your post and not say something. It's offensive why your dh wants to circ. I don't think the circ issue is the real problem, I think stereotyping and prejudice is.

I think it's sad you want to convince you dh that it's not those low class, dirty , poor , uninsured people not circing so he'll want to not cut your son. I would tell my dh to stop being such a bigot. And that neither him or your son is better than those dirty , low class, uninsured people. He will be passing down his prejudice to your children if he doesn't check it.
post #30 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim919 View Post
I agree with you 100%. My son won't be circ'd either way- I'm trying to get my dp to agree with me to avoid resentment over the issue.

I called our local hospital and the circ rate is 95%.

The people who are not circ'd around here are the ones without health insurance - hense the social stigma.
Where do you live?

I can guarantee you that if you can narrow down for me where you live, I can find you people who have health insurance and have chosen not to circumcise their sons.

I will help you and your husband break this stereotype

And don't forget about us homebirthers....not generally counted in those hospital circ counts (and I know you might say "no one around here homebirths!" I thought that, too, until my midwife attended two other homebirths in my development in the same WEEK as mine )
post #31 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim919 View Post
I agree with you 100%. My son won't be circ'd either way- I'm trying to get my dp to agree with me to avoid resentment over the issue.

I called our local hospital and the circ rate is 95%.

The people who are not circ'd around here are the ones without health insurance - hense the social stigma.
It sounds to me like the hospital is lying. I know of no where anymore where the circ rate is 95%. That sounds like a number they just pulled out of their ass.
post #32 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim919 View Post
I agree with you 100%. My son won't be circ'd either way- I'm trying to get my dp to agree with me to avoid resentment over the issue.

I called our local hospital and the circ rate is 95%.

The people who are not circ'd around here are the ones without health insurance - hense the social stigma.
Congrats on your upcoming baby!
I have just pm'd you with some good info that can help to reason your DP.

make sure you read this thread:
A Warning For Parents of Intact Sons http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=129378
post #33 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenly View Post
It sounds to me like the hospital is lying. I know of no where anymore where the circ rate is 95%. That sounds like a number they just pulled out of their ass.
:

Hospitals do lie. A nurse at my SIL's hospital told my brother that our state circ rate is "99%." And there is NO WAY that is true. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy; they tell people that lots of circs happen, and therefore they make lots of circs happen. Remember that the hospitals have a large monetary interest in separating your son from his foreskin (not only do they charge the parents and/or the insurance, but also they make money on the other end--selling the foreskins to biomed companies.)
post #34 of 69

few more links:

The Cruelest Cut"--Fox News Story http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCOtI2QHCVo
Facing Circumcision: Eight Physicians Tell Their Stories http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CC9Y-Us210

DOCTORS OPPOSING CIRCUMCISION http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/

DOCTORS RE-EXAMINE CIRCUMCISION http://www.circumcision.org/doctors.htm
post #35 of 69
Three years ago, I could have written the OP's post.

For a while it was bloddy between DH and I and there were times I wanted to give in just to be done with the fighting. Any time I felt that way I would just imagine handing off my perfect, trusting, innocent, brand new baby boy knowing in my heart that they were about to hurt him terribly, and I stood my ground. (I brought that to him early on, asking if he really thought he could stand by and watch someone hurt his son like that and he said yes, because it was better for him )

I didn't know about MDC then, but I did a ton of research and brought home print out after print out of information for DH. I avoided all the hard core anti-circ stuff because he just turned off when he saw it. I showed him the instruments, the step by step and even available pain relief methods. I was lucky enough to work for a major pharma co and had acess to tons of medical journals and databases. I brought home every study I could find about circ, statistics etc. (he was very impacted by the study on pain relief that was shut down over ethics.) He also spent a lot of time talking to my intact adult brothers (middle class, white boys, born in the circ happy 80's FWIW)

He had said a few times "F' it do whatever you want" but like you and your DH we always talked things out and I really wanted him to be a part of this decision rather than just give in and be grumpy about it.

Eventually we decided it was totally on him to do the research that would convince me it really was in the best interest of our son. After about a week he came home and said that he couldn't find anything that would really make it worth putting him through the surgery. :
It was a pretty anti-climactic ending for what had been a months long heated battle.

Right after J was born he was holding him and commented that I was right all those months ago and he never would have been able to hand him off or stand by knowing what they would do to him.

He still is nowhere near a passionate as I am about it, and insists he is perfectly happy with his circ, but when his bf had a son last year and had him circ'ed without pain relief he was really upset. He saw the baby during a dipe change a while later and was horrified by the circ.

The circ thing was literally one of the biggest battles of our realtionship. (13 years now - we were jr. high sweethearts) It was hell and I really feel for you going through it now. Like you said my DH is a great guy, I love him to pieces and I know he was just acting on what he really believed was in the best interest of his baby boy. Try hard to look at this as him fighting for the best interest of your son and being really uninformed, rather than being a stubborn a-hole. I think it would have saved me a lot of heartache and fighting with DH if I just tried that in the beginning. Things got a lot easier once we got to the place where we could agree we wanted the best for him.

I hope you get what I mean by that. I never, ever would have let my son be circ'ed. Ever. I knew in my heart from the begining that leaving him intact was the way to go, but as soon as I showed DH that I would be open minded to his arguments, he became open minded towards me. After that, the facts speak for themselves.

Stay strong, mama.



G/L
If I can help at all, let me know!
post #36 of 69
I should call my hospital and see what they say the circ rates are....since I know they are very low here.

Here's a thought-not all babies that are circ'd, are circ'd in the hospital. So by their supposed rates, your area would have a virtually 100% circ rate. There is NO place in the US that is above like...90%? If I remember correctly? So yeah, they have to be lying, there is just nooo way.

I'd also like to add-just because you dont have insurance does NOT mean you are poor or dirty. Do you realise how many middle class families dont have health insurance? Seriously. Even we dont and my dh works at MICROSOFT. And again, most of the people I have met who did circ HAD NO INSURANCE or it wasnt covered (even mainstream insurance companies are starting to no longer cover it since it is a cosmetic procedure.)
post #37 of 69
Here are all the links to statistics that I have. If anyone has one not here please post it or PM it to me so I can add it

Statistics: http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/USA/

Statistics: http://www.cirp.org/library/statisti...taterates2004/

Statistics: http://www.circs.org/reviews/rates/usa.html


Statistics: http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/bollinger2003

Map statistic: http://www.circumstitions.com/Maps.html

Canada statistics: http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/Canada/

Statistics world wide: http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/majority.htm
post #38 of 69
To the OP: What part of the country do you live in? The regions where it's the most common are the Midwest, Northeast, and South. But even in the circ-happy Midwest, you can find intact males. Most often, they come from the most educated families; they are the ones who take the time to research things and don't just follow the status quo.

Also, I can see why people would be offended by your dh's reasoning. We have people here from all backgrounds and all socio-economic groups. My father was a farmer. Would you consider him low class and uneducated? I agree with previous posters that you dh does need to examine his assumptions and prejudices, or he is going to pass them on to your offspring.
post #39 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenly View Post
It sounds to me like the hospital is lying. I know of no where anymore where the circ rate is 95%. That sounds like a number they just pulled out of their ass.
I wonder that, too, Shawna. Was it some receptionist pulling a number out of thin air (lol though I like your wording better!)? BTW, I enjoyed your PhotoBucket album. Elijah's a lefty just like me.
post #40 of 69
The thing I've learned is that circ is a very emotional issue for a circ'd man, even the most logical and intelligent guy can be an irrational wreck when discussing circ, making it very difficult to convince when this is a sensitive topic for them.

My advice would be to decide you are not circing, and just reassure your partner that it will be OK, your son will be fine and his private parts are private, he will have friends and girlfriends, etc.

I would expect him to be very uncomfortable but it's up to you to stay strong on the topic. Just don't cave. He will adapt and be fine.
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