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Expecting soon - help me sway DP - Page 3

post #41 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim919 View Post
I called our local hospital and the circ rate is 95%.

The people who are not circ'd around here are the ones without health insurance - hense the social stigma.
I don't believe that the circ rate at a hospital in Western NY is 95%. I would want to see proof. If that is true you should take it to the news to be done as a ripoff piece ... duping poor consumers into unnecessary surgery, raising the cost of everyone's insurance, probably lying to the mothers about anesthesia and then giving the kids tylenol. Something.
post #42 of 69
You are in western, NY?! LoL! no WAY the circ rate is 95%....and, if you are from there, I have tons of family and friends in the area I can introduce you to, lots of intact males Plus there are a few AP playdate groups with intact males that I know of.

also:

Dr. Joan Calkins
Village Pediatrics and Rheumatology
17 Long Avenue
Hamburg, NY 14075
716-646-5188

great doc with intact care experience-- her son is intact as well.

(not sure if pigpokey is saying she is from WNY or saying she knows you are...but if you aren't from WNY, let us know where and we can find you local resources )
post #43 of 69
Thread Starter 
I don't disagree that the local hospital very well could have made up a number. I hate our local hospital. I have a family member who is a L&D nurse at another area hospital (not the one I called) and she said that most (whatever that means) people still circ (she has a 10mo old boy though so she may be biased) I'm in my early 20's and spend the better part of my teens babysitting. I'm also at the age where all of my friends, siblings, inlaws, cousins, etc. are having babies. I have never in my life seen an uncirc'd penis on an adult or a baby/child. I felt like a creep trying to find a picture when I started doing research a few months ago. I must either be around a really isolated group of infants or the local rate is not 50%

I'll be delivering at home with a wonderful, qualified, respected midwife, so the hospital won't be an issue anyway (god willing.)

I KNOW its a prejudice situation for my DP. Thats the ISSUE. I think more people then admit it have prejudices. I'm admitting that its a problem I'm having within my family and I'm trying to solve it in a healthy way. Just knowing that prejudice is wrong doesnt make it go away. (I'm sure we all have a loved one who has embarrased us at some point with their closed-mindedness.)

On the up side, the info you all linked me to was great (I read all of it & some of it several times.) I learned a LOT. I found it especially helpful the information that related to the emotional aspect of it for a father. I had not given appropriate respect to his feelings. I think his stupid argument may have been covering up a deeper issue.

I think I'm going to approach the subject sometime during the next few weeks when I get a good chance, and I'm going to start off with an apology for being so argumentative and agressive in prior conversations. I'm going to say that I really do respect his feelings & would like him to review the information I've compiled (i'm going to try to google for some pro-circ info too so that I don't look so biased) I'll say that after he has looked over everything I would like to talk about it again. I know that no informed person would still decide to circ, so hopefully that will be the end of it.
post #44 of 69
It's so great you will be at home and you won't even need to deal with the circ issue in the hospital.

A thought might be to have your midwife mention it at a home visit or some other time your DP is there. (i guess IF she is anti circ ) You could maybe ask her, in front of him, about trends for her clients....or you could have her bring over some actual info to hand him hard copy (I know my midwife has tons around the office!)
post #45 of 69
Ohoh-- you might also want to check out the latest issue of mothing mag- there's a nocirc article as the main article of the issue.
post #46 of 69
I just wanted to pop in and say hi. My DH & I both have masters degrees and our son is intact. We live in Michigan, and we have health insurance.

I know many children who are intact, and two of the DH's of our local MDC group are also intact. My nephew also lives in Oakland County, Michigan (one of the most affluent in the world), his parents have masters degrees, and health insurance.

Is this your first? After he's born, you will start noticing a lot more intact boys - trust me! I didn't know many before my son was born either.

Congrats by the way.
post #47 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim919 View Post
(i'm going to try to google for some pro-circ info too so that I don't look so biased)
Don't do this. Make him try to come to you with pro-circ arguments. Yes, get less defensive, but don't do his "work" for him. (Besides, it will make you really sick to try to even look for pro-circ arguments. There are some real circ-fetishists out there.)


I think the point of the article I gave you is---give him lots of lovin' and praise ("honey, I appreciate you working so hard for us," kind of thing), but stand firm about not cutting your son. That way, hopefully, he'll realize (since he's getting lots of sex in the process) that it's not anything personal, like he's been interpreting it to be.
post #48 of 69
Maybe have him read this thread?
post #49 of 69
I agree, I'd make him look for the pro-circ arguments. If he doesnt then obviously he is either using it as an argument to try to hide deeper emotional issues with this, as you said, or he really doesnt care as much as he says he does.

I also agree that you might be surprised how many intact boys you run into after the fact. I had no clue so many boys around me were not circumcised until I had an intact son myself and it was brought up in various groups. It is also very much possible that you are in an isolated area with a very high rate-esp if the hospital is spewing 95% circ rate stuff to parents who are wishy washy. Its also possible that the people you have happened to run into were more mainstream parents or...something. I tend to hang with at least semi-crunchy parents, not necessarily uber AP but still not your typical mainstreamer parents, and about 90% of the boys are intact. In another group with MUCH more mainstream parents, about 50% are intact. It just kinda shows how much it can vary from group to group.
post #50 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocsNemesis View Post
I agree, I'd make him look for the pro-circ arguments. If he doesnt then obviously he is either using it as an argument to try to hide deeper emotional issues with this, as you said, or he really doesnt care as much as he says he does.

I also agree that you might be surprised how many intact boys you run into after the fact. I had no clue so many boys around me were not circumcised until I had an intact son myself and it was brought up in various groups. It is also very much possible that you are in an isolated area with a very high rate-esp if the hospital is spewing 95% circ rate stuff to parents who are wishy washy. Its also possible that the people you have happened to run into were more mainstream parents or...something. I tend to hang with at least semi-crunchy parents, not necessarily uber AP but still not your typical mainstreamer parents, and about 90% of the boys are intact. In another group with MUCH more mainstream parents, about 50% are intact. It just kinda shows how much it can vary from group to group.
What exactly is your definition of mainstream? Just curious.
post #51 of 69
I forgot to mention this: we were billed for a circumcision when my son was born (even though he is intact). When I called to complain, I was told it made no difference on the price, and they wouldn't take it off. Maybe this hospital has a similiar policy (just bill everyone)?
post #52 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by My*Scorpio View Post
I forgot to mention this: we were billed for a circumcision when my son was born (even though he is intact). When I called to complain, I was told it made no difference on the price, and they wouldn't take it off. Maybe this hospital has a similiar policy (just bill everyone)?
I'd call your insurance company and report this as fraud. They are being billed for a procedure that didn't happen.
post #53 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim919 View Post
The reason he is unwilling to sway from his position is that he sees un circ'd as a bad thing from a social standpoint. The only people he knows who don't do circ are the migrant farm workers & very low income type people. He associates it with being low class, dirty, uneducated, etc.
I have a doctorate and my husband has a master's degree (which is the terminal degree in his field). We both trained at Harvard; I had a faculty appointment there for a few years. Our little boy is intact.

You know, in some ways, I think it makes sense that lower circ rates would be happening among people who are BETTER educated, not less educated. The more you read and learn and know about this, the less you can justify doing it, kwim?
post #54 of 69
I am so disheartened. I talked to my dh tonight about the research I've been doing and my new ideas about not circ. He listened and responded well to all the info but at the very end he said "well, if we had another boy i'd still circumcise him 'cause i'm not gonna have him be different than elijah and levi, and besides, i'm circ too" I tried to reason with him, tell him that I've looked into it and that he wouldn't be made fun of by his brothers or classmates. And he just kept telling me that I didn't know what it's like and didn't know what I was talking about 'cause I'm a girl. : I can not believe after all those facts I gave him he would do it anyway for THAT reason? I even told him about losing penis length, and sexual sensitivity for *both* the guy and girl. I am just surprised. My husband is usually SO level-headed and fact/proof driven. He always uses logic. ARHGHGHG I'm just venting. I believe in submitting to my husband, but I REFUSE to circ any more sons we have. So, I've decided to avoid any future war, sountil further notice, absolutely no more kids. I do not want to end up ruining our relationship over this. I know some husbands take time... so we'll see. He even said "if you keep this up sounding like a fruitcake you're gonna have to stop going on those forums". That in itself is ridiculous 'cause the forums only prompted me to question it. After that I researched it on the forums and MANY other places. How can he argue with me over my researching something? That is the exact thing he always tells me to do "research it". I'm sorry I need to quit........... :
post #55 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokeMom View Post
And he just kept telling me that I didn't know what it's like and didn't know what I was talking about 'cause I'm a girl. :
You may be a woman, but you're the one who has intact genitals. He doesn't. You also have a foreskin/prepuce (your clitoral hood). He doesn't. Ask him if you two had a girl if he'd be willing to consent to surgery to make her genitals look like yours.

I feel your pain -- I live in MI as well, and I believe we have the highest circ rate in the U.S.. It's hard to break it, but I do know plenty of little boys who are intact.

Tell him that in order for you to consent to a circ again, he's going to have to research and find you some medical evidence for doing so. Why perform plastic surgery on an infant?
post #56 of 69
I am so hoping that this was just a front and that maybe he will continue to think about it. I tried the female circumcision card and that did nothing. He said that was not a good example. He is convinced that not only would son #3 be teased by his 2 circ brothers, but also horrible teased at school. He says when he was in school they all made fun of kids who were circ. I told him that being intact is much more common now, and that the possibilitiy of being made fun of is not even close to real reason to get circ. He said something to the effect that he's not going to "ruin" his kids life because he didn't have him circ. I asked what about waiting til he's older and can be circ if he want's. The answer was a big fat No. Now, this may never come up as an issue since I don't plan to have more kids. But plans could change. Either way, I plan to talk to a lot of people/friends/family about this issue. But it just doesn't feel right to not have him backing me up. I hope he will come on board at some point.
post #57 of 69
What are these schools where boys are spending so much time looking at and critiquing each other's penises? Really. Most of the boys I knew wouldn't have wanted to be caught dead investigating each other's penises.

Next time he tells you "he'll be teased," throw back a "that's less horrible than being maimed."
post #58 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokeMom View Post
I am so hoping that this was just a front and that maybe he will continue to think about it. I tried the female circumcision card and that did nothing. He said that was not a good example. He is convinced that not only would son #3 be teased by his 2 circ brothers, but also horrible teased at school. He says when he was in school they all made fun of kids who were circ. I told him that being intact is much more common now, and that the possibilitiy of being made fun of is not even close to real reason to get circ. He said something to the effect that he's not going to "ruin" his kids life because he didn't have him circ. I asked what about waiting til he's older and can be circ if he want's. The answer was a big fat No. Now, this may never come up as an issue since I don't plan to have more kids. But plans could change. Either way, I plan to talk to a lot of people/friends/family about this issue. But it just doesn't feel right to not have him backing me up. I hope he will come on board at some point.
Well look at it this way you're just getting started. It might take him sometime to come around. There are a number of moms here that circumcised one or more sons before they realized the mistake. They've gone through what you went through and in the end prevented future sons from getting circumcised. For the most part their husbands came around and yours will too.

Those who have stopped report no problems with 'teasing' from older brothers and I know that teasing in other context is/was not common and will be come less common for reasons that you cite, even if it did happen, and you won't ruin his life; these are all defense mechanism, myths and scare tactics. I know this from personal experience. It's ok this is to be expected you're questioning years of dogma in his mind and it takes time so don't fret. We'll help you along and arm you with the information you need to dispel the myths and fears so that you can confidently talk to others and should the time come protect your next son.
post #59 of 69
Thanks for the support! I don't know why I was thinking he was going to have his mind changed so quickly (okay maybe it's 'cause mine was). I did mention that the jewish way of circumcising cuts off less than the american way (If I remember that right) and he said he would consider doing the Jewish kind. But I told him that although I appreciated his compromise that I would still not want to do that. J/W if it ever came to it, what are my rights regarding the kids? I assume that because I am the mother, and they come from my body, that I CAN refuse for them to be circumcised, right? Even if the father wants it done? That would sure not make things good between us but I believe it's worth the risk. My dh does not like to feel not-in-control. Besides all that stuff he believes about circ and teasing etc, I think he's a little freaked out that his wife who *almost* always agrees with him has all of a sudden changed her mind on a big issue. I really think maybe I can get him to see things my way someday so I'm not going to stress out about it too much more. For all I know it may never be an issue (so far as having another baby boy). I'm glad to have you all to help!
post #60 of 69
Have him check out my myspace: www.myspace.com/lavendershuman

Oh, and the links in my siggy.

What changed my dp's mind: a graphic video.
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