s/o secular homeschoolers- discuss importance of Bible stories (post #1 edited for clarity)

[onlyzombiecat]

Please discuss this idea:
Children need to be familiar with Bible stories to understand references in other books and cultural literacy of predominantly Christian countries.

Additionally, as secular homeschoolers what access do your children have to Bible stores and other religious texts?

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I will rephrase the original idea that I wished to discuss-
Children who have knowledge of bible stories will be able to more easily understand or appreciate the cultural literacy and references in the literature of a predominantly Christian country. Thus it can be important/desirable for secular homeschoolers to retain religious elements like Bible stories n their curriculum.

Note- This statement is NOT a quote but inspired by an idea that I have heard from fellow secular homeschoolers in different places.

[AnnR33]

I homeschool secularly but do use some Christian stories that have character issues in them. They aren't necessarily Bible stories, but some are.
I've looked for secular stories with the same type of morals or lessons but haven't had much luck. I figure I can discuss any "heavy" issues regarding God as needed in my own way.

As far as the quote, I don't think Bible stories are "needed" at all.

I have found some awesome books from this board about different religions/beliefs and use them as a reference when needed.

[frogguruami]

Originally Posted by onlyzombiecat

Please discuss this idea:
Children need to be familiar with Bible stories to understand references in other books and cultural literacy of predominantly Christian countries.

I disagree with that statement. There are plenty people, including Christians, who are not familiar with Bible stories. That doesn't make then culturally illiterate.

That being said, I would like my children introduced to the mythology of all religions, Christianity included.

[Cajunmomma]

I think that, while not technically necessary to a well-rounded education, familiarity with Bible stories does further a child's education. For example, many works of literature have Christ figures as their main characters. Some acquaintance with the general understanding of who Jesus was (with or without any "push" to interpret the story in a theological way) will certainly make that understanding easier.

[umbrella]

I agree that one does not have to actively study these stories in order to have a context for them. I would also agree that most people don't know most of the stories very well.

That said, we have several religious books in our home, on the bookcases with all the other books. Reading them can be pretty interesting.

[moominmamma]

I wouldn't use the word "need", but I think it helps broaden a child's cultural literacy to have that familiarity. My kids are familiar with bible stories as well as stories from the Islamic, Hindu and Buddhist traditions.

Miranda

[Nomadmama]

I agree that children, secular or not, should learn about the Bible but not for the reasons you stated.

It has great historical importance. Understanding what culture and society was like thousands of years ago, from what they ate to how they dressed to how the family structure worked, is best learned straight from the horse's mouth.

I also want my children to be able to understand what drives people to make the choices they do in the name of Christianity, especially most Americans. AND I want them to be able to engage in intelligent religious debate.

Plus, if kids read the Bible, they might win Jeopardy one day.

[elizawill]

Originally Posted by onlyzombiecat

Please discuss this idea:
Children need to be familiar with Bible stories to understand references in other books and cultural literacy of predominantly Christian countries.

i disagree (assuming you mean popular bible stories taught in sunday school that is). i think bible stories are incredibly relevant to one's christian faith but i do not think they are necessary to have cultural literacy (even in predominantly christian countries). i grew up in a non-christian home and was not familiar with bible stories (i.e. jonah & the whale, david & goliath, 5 loaves and 2 fish, etc.) and i would not categorize myself as having been culturally illiterate before the age of 25 (which was the first time i heard those stories).

i think world history will give ample background & understanding of what took place & how christianity came to be, and i also think studying world religions would be beneficial - but again, most people that do an overview of world religions simply study core beliefs and focus on the main individuals that are highly regarded in those faiths. i think you could get an overall understanding of christianity as a religion, without ever actually reading bible stories as literature.

i definitely think biblical stories are wonderful and valuable, but to argue they are "needed" for non-christians to develop cultural literacy is an overstatement imo. if someone is reading a book that references christianity (like cs. lewis for example) i think they would still be able to enjoy the literature and not get lost without understanding its full meaning (at least in most cases). just my opinion.

[Sasha_girl]

Originally Posted by frogguruami

I disagree with that statement. There are plenty people, including Christians, who are not familiar with Bible stories. That doesn't make then culturally illiterate.

That being said, I would like my children introduced to the mythology of all religions, Christianity included.

I agree.

At this point my children are *not* exposed to Bible stories, even though we do stories from other religions. We live in a predominantly Christian, very conservative area and both of our families are loaded full of fundamentalists. We get enough of G-d just at family gatherings, kwim? I'm more focused on them understanding that it's okay not to be Christian, that it's not a default setting.

[Bird Girl]

There are so many expressions in English, references in all kinds of books, and in every aspect of cultural life that come from the bible. If you don't know what the trials of Job are, who Noah might be, or the story of Eve and Adam, you'll miss a layer of meaning.

It's not necessary to actually read the bible, I suppose, to find these things, but an explanation when the child comes across them adds familiarity too.

[Mallory]

While you don't have to know anything about The Odyssey to enjoy O' Brother Where Art Thou, or anything about Christianity to enjoy Narnia, I do think that seeing those connections is enjoyable.

So we think they are important in the same way that the great myths of many (ok, mostly western) cultures are important to our culture. And for the most part they are good stories. They are enjoyable all on thier own, and whether the actual character traits are ones you want to encourage or not, they can lead to good discussions.

I don't think they are any more important then Atlas, or the trials of Hercules, or knowing how Mars got its name-- understanding all those undercurrents helps you feel a part of many things you might miss otherwise.

And they help you get the daily crossword finished

[elizawill]

Originally Posted by Mallory

While you don't have to know anything about The Odyssey to enjoy O' Brother Where Art Thou, or anything about Christianity to enjoy Narnia, I do think that seeing those connections is enjoyable.

oh, i totally agree!! i just was responding to whether or not it was "needed" and actually necessary. i absolutely think bible stories should be utilized, read, enjoyed, learned from....but i think you can not read them and still be culturally literate.

[Marsupialmom]

I think knowledge of variety of religious stories from ALL RElIGIONS helpful for people to understand other people.

When we learned about Egypt we did discuss Moses Judeo/Christian story and Muslim versions. We also discussed and learned about Abraham and his son and how the Muslim and JudeoChristian stories differ and why that different creates problems.

We learned about Galgamesh, Noah, and flood stories around the world.

We learned about Hindu Gods, Buddhism, Confucianism and other religious beliefs because these are the roots to many peoples actions and in actions. It is hard to understand how the crusades effect others when you don't understand the bases of their beliefs. Or one of the reasons why people crossed over the Atlantic.

[jadedone80]

I think I am the one who prompted the discussion and I just want to say that I don't think children need to know about bible stories, but that familiarity just helps expound other literary references they may come across...

A frame of reference makes certain pieces of literature richer.

For example I recently read a secular modern piece regarding corporation and the author stated: "I felt like David fighting Goliath"

How would you know how that felt unless you were familiar with the story about David & Goliath?

And another secular article talked about how a man loved another like Samson loved Delilah... If you aren't familiar with the story you haven't a clue of what that means.

There are many, many pieces of literature that uses these types of references... off the top of my head I'm thinking Moby Dick, Legends of King Arthur, Dantes Inferno, some works by Charles Dickens, etc....

So, the real question should be not do children need to know, but rather:
Do you agree:
"that if your child is familiar with bible stories it allows them to understand a lot of America's cultrual literacy and expounds some of the references in other books that they might read in the future."

Thanks for letting me clarify my original statement.

[NoHiddenFees]

Originally Posted by onlyzombiecat

Please discuss this idea:
Children need to be familiar with Bible stories to understand references in other books and cultural literacy of predominantly Christian countries.

I agree that to "get" English literature it helps to have a grasp of Bible stories, Homer, Arthurian legend, etc. These references are shorthand used by authors for centuries. Sure you can get something from texts without recognizing Biblical and other literary allusions, allegories, and parallels, but try reading The Wasteland without a working knowledge of Arthurian legend (specifically the Fisher King). The experience isn't nearly as rich.

Additionally, as secular homeschoolers what access do your children have to bible stores and other religious texts?

We cover myths from all major religions (and some "minor" ones), and as many folk and fairy tales as we can fit in.

[onlyzombiecat]

jadedone80- I'm sorry if you felt misrepresented. You are not the only person from whom I've heard that it is a good idea for children to have a familiarity with bible stories even if you are secular homeschoolers. The statement I wrote was similar to what you stated but not exactly the same because it was not meant to be a quote. It was meant to be an idea to discuss. I think it is an interesting topic for secular homeschoolers to discuss.
I will edit my statement in the OP since the language is causing an issue but I feel the idea is the same.

[Lisalucy]

Yes, I think a familiarity with mythologies aids in understanding many, if not all, of the arts. I remember thinking this exact thing during an art history class in college (about 25 years ago -- this is an old memory!) So literature, poety, painting, sculpture, ballet, opera...

But I do not "teach" biblical stories. As we come across references we are unfamiliar with, we investigate and discuss. I would rather have my children be able to recognise what they don't know and be unafraid to explore it.

--LL

[Roar]

It would be pretty much impossible for any well read person not to run across references to bible stories. We are atheists and don't spend time studying the bible in our homeschool, but I'm quite sure our child is familiar with David and Goliath, coat of many colors, adam and eve, Moses parting the sea, etc.

[calandals]

Its essential to have a good working knowledge of the Bible and its stories if you wish to have a well rounded education. Every educated person absolutely needs to familiarize themselves with the Bible, not for religious reasons but for literary reasons alone.

Shunning the Bible is a huge mistake, which would have major repercussions in any upper level english class.

The more religious homeschoolers who shun greek and roman mythology make a very similar mistake.

[Daffodil]

I'm an atheist, but I'm pretty much in the "agree" camp. No one absolutely needs to know Bible stories to live a full, well-rounded life, but if you live in a Christian culture, I think you do have to know them to be fully culturally literate. It's true that you can learn enough to understand the most common references without actually reading the Bible, but you're missing out on so much if all you get is those commonly-acquired bits of knowledge.

For instance, almost everyone knows what a "good Samaritan" is, but how many people know that Jesus told the story of the good Samaritan in answer to the question, "Who is my neighbor?" (i.e. "When I'm told to love my neighbor as myself, who exactly does that include?") He told the story of the two people who passed by the injured man without helping him, and the Samaritan who did help him (even though Samaritans and Jews didn't like each other), and asked which of the three acted as a neighbor to the man. The message being that you can, and should, treat anyone as a neighbor.