What would natural consequences be for refusing to stay in bed?

[Girlymomwithsons]

My almost 4 year old thinks it's a fun game to keep getting out of bed, and running around laughing. Yes, I know you are thinking, maybe he's just not tired yet. Don't put him to bed until he's tired. Ok, rarely, that has been the problem. But usually, he's rubbing his eyes, sucking his thumb, showing all signs of being tired, but just thinks it's funny to make me beg him (for lack of a better word) to go to bed. During the daytime, if he acts out because he is tired, I explain that to him, and put him to bed. (He doesn't sleep though.) But at night, if he is tired, and avoiding going to bed, what natural consequence is there? He has told me that the consequence should be that he is not allowed to go to bed, but that obviously doesn't work. Sometimes, reading another story, or playing a quiet game, or snuggling together will work, but less and less often. Any suggestions?

[crazydiamond]

Does your DS share your bed or does he have his own room?

My DD is 3 and sleeps in her own room. Sometimes she doesn't want to stay in bed. She usually just wants to play with toys or look at books instead. I tell her that she doesn't have to stay in bed, but she does need to stay in her room. I also insist the light stays off, though she has a nightlight that gives just enough light for looking at books.

The natural consequence of not staying in bed is that she falls asleep on the floor. Usually without a blanket or pillow, often in piles of toys or books. If she's still sleeping when I go to bed, I'll pick her up and move her to her bed. But usually, she'll wake up on her own within and hour or so, complaining she's uncomfortable. That's when I gently direct her to her bed, which she gladly climbs into without any fuss.

The couple of times she didn't want to stay in her room, we said that's fine, but we're going to bed now. She'd fuss and cry because she wanted to stay up and "have fun". But it was late and we were tired, so we turned off all the lights and went to our own bed (in which she's also welcome). She doesn't think it's all that fun to be up all alone in a dark house "staying up", so she wanders back into her own bed to sleep.

[simplehome]

Originally Posted by crazydiamond

I tell her that she doesn't have to stay in bed, but she does need to stay in her room. I also insist the light stays off, though she has a nightlight that gives just enough light for looking at books.

The natural consequence of not staying in bed is that she falls asleep on the floor. Usually without a blanket or pillow, often in piles of toys or books. If she's still sleeping when I go to bed, I'll pick her up and move her to her bed. But usually, she'll wake up on her own within and hour or so, complaining she's uncomfortable. That's when I gently direct her to her bed, which she gladly climbs into without any fuss.

I've been wondering the same thing lately, and WISH that this approach would work for us! DS is deathly afraid of being alone right now, though, which I think plays a part in trying to stay awake. He has realized that we leave after he falls asleep, and that he's alone while he's sleeping (he sleeps with us, so we're back in bed by the time he first wakes in the night to check for us). We generally put him to bed in his own room, just so we can get his sister to sleep too (in the big bed), and then move him after he falls asleep.

For us, the natural consequence of not going to sleep is that EVERYONE has a horrid day the next day, because he feels awful and I didn't get anything done around the house after he went to sleep (because there IS no after these days---I have to go to bed so that I can be up early with the baby in the morning). He doesn't really seem to care when nighttime comes, though, that we'll all have a crappy day. :

I'm waiting for this one to pass.....

[ann_of_loxley]

Could you lay with him until he falls asleep?
I have to lay with my son - though we co sleep he goes to bed a few hours before us as hes much more tired before us! - until he falls asleep. As he doesnt nap, it only takes a few minutes and sometimes I get a little nap out of it too! lol... I just lay there -roll over, no talking, etc...just lay there with him and then hes out like a light!...If I didnt lay there - he would be getting out and playing and running around and getting overtired.

[nextcommercial]

I finally put a gate up across her bedroom door to keep her in her room. That was a suggestion from moms who had been there done that. So, I locked her little butt in her room.

I didn't work. It was a stupid idea. What kind of people suggest dumb ideas to overtired overworked moms????

I finally told her she could stay up.. in her room. She could stay up all night for all I cared. She could read, listen to music, or play, I didn't care. (i was still cranky, so I wasn't very nice)

Strangely, this worked. I put her to bed like normal. Books, cuddling time the whole nine yards, then I would walk out. A few minutes later the light would go on, and an hour later I would scoop her up (asleep) from her toybox or closet and put her in bed. This lasted a week or so, til the excitement wore off. After a while, the only thing I had to do was turn her flashlight off before I went to bed.

[GoBecGo]

I finally put a gate up across her bedroom door to keep her in her room. That was a suggestion from moms who had been there done that. So, I locked her little butt in her room.

I didn't work. It was a stupid idea. What kind of people suggest dumb ideas to overtired overworked moms????

That worked great for us actually. She would get up, realise she chouldn't come out to play, cry, i would run to her, put her back in bed, kiss and cuddle her, say night night and leave. The first night - rinse and repeat about 20 times (i assume while she checked i would ALWAYS come if she cried, which of course i did), thereafter there was no problem. She doesn't have the gate anymore and she still almost always stays in her room after bedtime.

[Ruthla]

I wouldn't think of this as a "discipline" problem, but rather as a sign that the bedtime routine needs some tweaking. Are you tucking him in and walking away? Maybe he needs you to stay with him while he falls asleep.

[elizawill]

we have a bedtime routine that is pretty lengthy. after they brush their teeth, we give piggy backs to bed. then we read stories. i read a few books to my dd - then she reads a few books to me. then we have several sets of prayers we say & then we hug & kiss and say goodnight. it's about 30 minutes or more for all of this. once we say goodnight, if they aren't tired they can listen to audio stories we burn to cd (www.storynory.com) or they can play their leapster. sometimes my dd writes notes in her journal (or more like words - lol) or she may read with a flashlight (but the hall light is left on too). they can get up and potty of course, but they go right back to bed on their own, we only do the bedtime routine ONE time. i don't retuck them in over and over. my son usually falls asleep within minutes, while my dd takes usually a good hour or more to fall asleep. i often hear her singing in her room. she doesn't mind bedtime though...it's not a power struggle or anything. anyway - that's what we do.

[alegna]

Well, the "natural" consequence is being tired. But I would agree- sounds like bedtime needs tweaking.

-Angela

[Vancouver Mommy]

This is an approach I heard from another mommy, but I haven't tried it myself. I don't know if it has anything to do with natural consequences in anything but a roundabout way. Put your little one to bed as usual and tell them that you will be in in two minutes to give them more hugs and kisses, read another story, whatever. If they're still in bed after two minutes, go in and give them the attention that they would be seeking by popping out of bed and screaming around the house, but do it in a positive way rather than a negative way. Then move it up to five minutes, then ten, after which they may already be asleep. I don't know if it works, but if you're going to be interacting with them anyway it seems a lot less stressful to do it this way. This way they get your attention by staying in bed, rather than getting up.

[frontierpsych]

Originally Posted by Vancouver Mommy

This is an approach I heard from another mommy, but I haven't tried it myself. I don't know if it has anything to do with natural consequences in anything but a roundabout way. Put your little one to bed as usual and tell them that you will be in in two minutes to give them more hugs and kisses, read another story, whatever. If they're still in bed after two minutes, go in and give them the attention that they would be seeking by popping out of bed and screaming around the house, but do it in a positive way rather than a negative way. Then move it up to five minutes, then ten, after which they may already be asleep. I don't know if it works, but if you're going to be interacting with them anyway it seems a lot less stressful to do it this way. This way they get your attention by staying in bed, rather than getting up.

I don't know, that one seems like it would have the kid staying awake in bed on purpose instead of laying down to go to sleep, kwim?

What's your bedtime routine like? Hopefully you can find something that will relax him more. Possibly evenings need to be toned down if they aren't already.

[ktmama]

At four, I think you should be able to brainstorm some new ideas with him and come up with a mutually agreeable new plan for bedtime. If he has ownership, he may be more invested in making it work. If not, it's back to the drawing board. I find that if I'm in a power struggle with my dds over something I have NO power over (like falling asleep), I'm in real trouble and taking a more rational tact to solve the problem works wonders. Take the problem out of your court and put it into his. Let us know how it goes!

I guess if I were in your shoes and my dcs were just coming out of their rooms, I wouldn't make a game out of it by reacting, but I wouldn't be providing them with any interaction, toys or snacks downstairs either. After 8:30 is quiet, dark time in our house and it's pretty boring! :

[sunflowerkelli]

In response to the subject line- before I read your post, I thought:

Leave the cave? Get eaten by a tiger. :

Sorry, no help. I have to lay with both of them. Did you say you tried that?

[mama2cal&darby]

I have gone through that with my DS and I try to react very little. I don't beg, I don't yell. I sit on his bed and say-*Okay, I will wait* This is if he is fooling around when I am trying to get him into bed. If he keeps coming out of his room after we've gone through the whole routine, I lead him back to bed gently, but am firm with *No, this is bedtime.* I may have to do this 10x, but when he gets no reactions from me, he tends to give up after a night or 2. Now, sometimes he says he doesn't want to be alone, then I will stay with him for a bit and then tell him I will check on him in two minutes- as someone else suggested. I do this a couple of times, and generally he's out.
Good luck!

[aschmied]

My DD is afraid of being alone like simplehome's DS (an age thing?) and has ALWAYS had trouble falling asleep. She actually falls asleep ok now if she wants to AND is alone, but that scares her. We brainstormed with her, and now she goes to sleep in a stroller on a walk. Usually it works charmingly well. The advice I was given was to seek out what relaxes her, and do it.

[simplehome]

Originally Posted by aschmied

We brainstormed with her, and now she goes to sleep in a stroller on a walk. Usually it works charmingly well. The advice I was given was to seek out what relaxes her, and do it.

We had a lovely period of running in the evenings to get him to sleep---everyone was happy! We got exercise, and he got to sleep without stress. His current problem is just refusing to let his body sleep, which extends to running now, too. He doesn't want to fall asleep, because he knows that will result in him being alone eventually (after he's asleep).

We've always stayed with him until he's asleep, but now he's just flat out refusing to sleep (until he just can't help it any longer).

DH came up with a relaxation technique that has worked for two nights now---maybe it's just enough to get us out of a rut. DS told us, "My brain wants to sleep, but my body wants to play!", so DH said, "I know just what to do!". He ripped off all of DS' covers, then calmly and in all seriousness told all of his body parts to go to sleep, starting with his toes. I've tried relaxation techniques with him before, but I think this was a more kid-friendly way to do it.

He asked me to do it twice last night, and it got him calmed down enough that he then sat and listened to my singing. Total time: 30 minutes!

[tarajean56]

Originally Posted by elizawill

once we say goodnight, if they aren't tired they can listen to audio stories we burn to cd (www.storynory.com) or they can play their leapster.

OT-but thanks so much for posting that link! So cool!!!