What would you say.... - Page 3

[mama*pisces]

Originally Posted by newmainer

ugh. hard situation. Poor babies!!

maybe you could use your dh as a conversation starter? like, "yeah... my dh believes in spanking, but i really don't because...." and go into your spiel. You can't get through to someone by lecturing. They will instantly get defensive.

I did some anti-racism training, and their method for engaging people to talk about race was to ask questions and seek to learn about their views. usually as people talk and try to explain, there often becomes a point where you can find a 'soft spot' where perhaps they are not so sure of themselves. Then ask about that and go from there.

So, in this case, it might look like, "What did your ds do to provoke you to spank him?.... what other things have you tried? oh, nothing? When my ds was that age and did that- i'm pretty sure it's developmental, that behavior- i did xyz and that really seemed to help. would you be willing to try that? why not? wow, sounds like you're tired and..."

you get the idea. i have no idea how it would go, and my first instinct is always to blast the person because i get so emotionally involved, but this approach really is more gentle... and that is what you want to model.

good luck!

Yup, emotional detachment is definitely not my strong suit. Another reason why I have trouble finding the right words on the spot.

We were over at tough girl's house tonight(we grilled out a bunch of food last night so they had us over for dinner tonight), and she totally whacked the 11 month old, for reaching up onto a sidetable trying to get a cup. No warning, nothing. I was screaming inside my head: "But he didn't even DO anything!" I had to leave right after that.

I'm caught between trying to talk some sense in to her(though I doubt she'll listen) and running away as far as I can. I really don't think I can stand by and witness any more of that. So the plan right now is to send the anonymous booklet and keep my distance. And DH definitely knows I'm not down with hanging with them anymore. So we'll just see how the next 5 months until our lease is up go....

[Purple Cat]

My response is similiar to the other posters: HORRORIFIED!!!!

I completely understand, and my visceral response, would be more confrontational.

I've thought a lot about this situation. I think keeping an eye on the objective is key: help the woman learn to discipline in less violent ways. Judging behavior doesn't help change it. I think if she feels judged, she'll be much more likely to stay entrenched with spanking to save face. Basically, I think you are going to have to be a good actor.

I think with that backdrop, I would try being understanding and sympathetic to how stressful and difficult it is to raise children. It IS stressful to have a toddler gleefully persisting in climbing on the furniture, playing with the stove, etc., etc. I think if you shared vignettes of how you disciplined or managed your willful toddler, etc. and modeled how you discipline, it MIGHT help.

Certainly nothing on that scale, I've been successful in changing occupational therapists, etc., treatment of my children by modeling my approach. For instance, my daughter threw a handful of large discs at an intern. The OT immediately started scolding my daughter how she cannot hurt the intern and cannot throw things at her. I immediately jumped in and said, "DD, I knew you just wanted to give the discs to Christine, but I need you to hand them to her gently. She might get hurt if we throw the discs at her." I added that I knew she wasn't trying to hurt her. I then told my dd that we were going to practice handing the discs to the intern gently. I know it helped my OT understand and respond more constructively to my daughter.

I hope this helps.

[SophieAnn]

Originally Posted by mama*pisces

Yup, emotional detachment is definitely not my strong suit. Another reason why I have trouble finding the right words on the spot.

We were over at tough girl's house tonight(we grilled out a bunch of food last night so they had us over for dinner tonight), and she totally whacked the 11 month old, for reaching up onto a sidetable trying to get a cup. No warning, nothing. I was screaming inside my head: "But he didn't even DO anything!" I had to leave right after that.

I'm caught between trying to talk some sense in to her(though I doubt she'll listen) and running away as far as I can. I really don't think I can stand by and witness any more of that. So the plan right now is to send the anonymous booklet and keep my distance. And DH definitely knows I'm not down with hanging with them anymore. So we'll just see how the next 5 months until our lease is up go....

Oh that is horrifying! Did you say anything before you left?

Sometimes I think an honest, immediate reaction would work well. For example:
Neighbour: Yeah, I pop her hard x times per day?
Me: WHAT? You HIT your baby?

Or simply stating "I'm sorry, I can't listen to you talk about hitting your baby/child. It breaks my heart. If you want some ideas on alternatives I can help, but for now I think I need to leave.", then walk away (a similar comment would work for CIO as well).

Or if a spanking has just happened "I can't be here if you're going to hit your baby. I'm leaving now."

Another thing you could say to the CIO person would be something like:
"Oh, I could never do that... what if she's crying because she's just vomited all over herself?" (insert worst-case scenario here - had a poopie blowout - head caught in crib bars - ???)

I know it's so hard to react the way we want to in these situations. I've never been in this situation myself, but I'm very non-confrontational so I imagine I would just go very quiet and leave the room.

It's so tough. I know I couldn't handle interacting with them anymore. It would just eat me up inside. Hugs.

Edited to add: In Canada it is currently only legal to spank a child who is between the age of 2 and 12. I'm pretty sure there might also be a minimum age in the US too - and if there is, it's certainly higher than 11 months. You may want to look into that - and if you're feeling brave you could warn your neighbour that she's breaking the law and that if it happens again you will report it.

[Mom2Camryn397]

Originally Posted by mama*pisces

We were over at tough girl's house tonight(we grilled out a bunch of food last night so they had us over for dinner tonight), and she totally whacked the 11 month old, for reaching up onto a sidetable trying to get a cup. No warning, nothing. I was screaming inside my head: "But he didn't even DO anything!" I had to leave right after that.

Aye yie yie -- that's horrible. It seems like she's proud to be such a "tough mama" and she's almost putting on a show for you by bragging and spanking in front of you. Now that I think of it, I was with some friends who were bragging about letting their babies cry several weeks ago and I was screaming inside but I didn't say anything at the time (I know, I'm a wimp). What makes people think it's alright to brag about things that are so very wrong? Are they looking for people to validate them or are they just completely clueless?

Kristy

[mama*pisces]

Originally Posted by SophieAnn

Oh that is horrifying! Did you say anything before you left?
Sometimes I think an honest, immediate reaction would work well. For example:
Neighbour: Yeah, I pop her hard x times per day?
Me: WHAT? You HIT your baby?

Or simply stating "I'm sorry, I can't listen to you talk about hitting your baby/child. It breaks my heart. If you want some ideas on alternatives I can help, but for now I think I need to leave.", then walk away (a similar comment would work for CIO as well).

Or if a spanking has just happened "I can't be here if you're going to hit your baby. I'm leaving now."

Another thing you could say to the CIO person would be something like:
"Oh, I could never do that... what if she's crying because she's just vomited all over herself?" (insert worst-case scenario here - had a poopie blowout - head caught in crib bars - ???)

I know it's so hard to react the way we want to in these situations. I've never been in this situation myself, but I'm very non-confrontational so I imagine I would just go very quiet and leave the room.

It's so tough. I know I couldn't handle interacting with them anymore. It would just eat me up inside. Hugs.

Edited to add: In Canada it is currently only legal to spank a child who is between the age of 2 and 12. I'm pretty sure there might also be a minimum age in the US too - and if there is, it's certainly higher than 11 months. You may want to look into that - and if you're feeling brave you could warn your neighbour that she's breaking the law and that if it happens again you will report it.

No, I basically grinned a very fake grin at DH, which I'm pretty sure others saw, but not totally sure. Then I told ds it was time for bath, thanked them for dinner and left. I am non-confrontational as well, so as much as I want to say something, I find it hard in the heat of the moment. I'm working on it though: reading all these responses and ideas is helping me feel a bit courageous. But it certainly doesn't help that dh is always like:"quit judging and don't get involved" -- I feel like if I were to say something, he would totally get on my case. I like the suggestions you made though. They are non-accusatory and matter-of-fact. I will try to remember those for next time.

I just looked up the laws for spanking in the US; they go state by state, and after skimming them all I can see not one word about their being a minumum age for spanking. These were put up by pro-spankers though, so I don't know if anything was omitted(I would hope not!). I was very irritated by what they put up top. :

http://www.familyrightsassociation.c...nking_laws.htm

[mama*pisces]

Originally Posted by Mom2Camryn397

Aye yie yie -- that's horrible. It seems like she's proud to be such a "tough mama" and she's almost putting on a show for you by bragging and spanking in front of you. Now that I think of it, I was with some friends who were bragging about letting their babies cry several weeks ago and I was screaming inside but I didn't say anything at the time (I know, I'm a wimp). What makes people think it's alright to brag about things that are so very wrong? Are they looking for people to validate them or are they just completely clueless?Kristy

A little of both in this case I think. And I do feel like she was kinda putting on a show for me. Ughhhh, I wish I would have said something! Undoubtedly I will get another chance though, it's not like I can truly avoid them for the next 5 months, since they live right across the street.

[*Moomin*]

Originally Posted by mama*pisces

I can't believe that there have been 26 views to this thread and nobody has any thoughts on this. Yeesh. I'm starting to feel really not welcome in this forum.

Please remember that a lot of users read posts with sleeping babes in their laps or as in my case - i read using my laptop in bed with my baby at my breast and it's almost impossible to type.

On topic - I think you should talk to them. Why should your view be any less legitimate than theirs? You know, in some European countries it is actually illegal to hit children - spanking, slapping, whatever. It's illegal.

Sorry - typing is too difficult at the moment - squirming baby

[Fuamami]

Originally Posted by mama*pisces

No, I basically grinned a very fake grin at DH, which I'm pretty sure others saw, but not totally sure. Then I told ds it was time for bath, thanked them for dinner and left. I am non-confrontational as well, so as much as I want to say something, I find it hard in the heat of the moment. I'm working on it though: reading all these responses and ideas is helping me feel a bit courageous. But it certainly doesn't help that dh is always like:"quit judging and don't get involved" -- I feel like if I were to say something, he would totally get on my case. I like the suggestions you made though. They are non-accusatory and matter-of-fact. I will try to remember those for next time.

I just looked up the laws for spanking in the US; they go state by state, and after skimming them all I can see not one word about their being a minumum age for spanking. These were put up by pro-spankers though, so I don't know if anything was omitted(I would hope not!). I was very irritated by what they put up top. :

http://www.familyrightsassociation.c...nking_laws.htm

You could try looking at your local child protective agency website. On ours they have a FAQ that includes what is considered abusive. I'm not sure if there's an age limit, but it's stuff like "hitting with an instrument", "hitting on the face", etc. Stuff that LOTS of spankers do.

[waiting2bemommy]

I didn't have time to read all the replies, so sorry if I'm repeating anything already said, but I know that what has worked really well with my VERY non-GD husband is to mention an alternative really matter of factly. Like, the other day ds was visiting his dad and he started to cry, and dh didn't go to pick him up. I leaned to pick him up, and he said, "you shouldn't coddle him too much." Of course my initial reaction is : but I picked him up anyway and said, "I try to always respond to him because, you know, in my psych class I was learning about how so much brain development happens at this age, and that the more responsive the parent is to the child, the more easily the brain grows new connections and the child is able to learn. We read this study about how children in the 50's who weren't cuddled enough in the first 2 years had lower IQ's at age 5." And since he wants ds to be smart, he goes, "Oh. then keep doing that, I guess." And that's it. It may not be the last time he makes that remark, but I always respond the same way, and over time it'll sink in.

One other thing: I'm not as GD as most of the people here, but I always appreciate new information, even if I decide I don't agree. I don't think I'd be offended if someone said, "I read such and such book on XYZ. Ever heard of it?" and maybe offered to loan it to me. But I KNOW I'd take offense if someone put a GD book in my mailbox, kind of like a HINT, y'know? I would wonder why, if it bothered them that much, they didn't just say something.

[SophieAnn]

Originally Posted by mama*pisces

No, I basically grinned a very fake grin at DH, which I'm pretty sure others saw, but not totally sure. Then I told ds it was time for bath, thanked them for dinner and left. I am non-confrontational as well, so as much as I want to say something, I find it hard in the heat of the moment. I'm working on it though: reading all these responses and ideas is helping me feel a bit courageous. But it certainly doesn't help that dh is always like:"quit judging and don't get involved" -- I feel like if I were to say something, he would totally get on my case. I like the suggestions you made though. They are non-accusatory and matter-of-fact. I will try to remember those for next time.

I just looked up the laws for spanking in the US; they go state by state, and after skimming them all I can see not one word about their being a minumum age for spanking. These were put up by pro-spankers though, so I don't know if anything was omitted(I would hope not!). I was very irritated by what they put up top. :

http://www.familyrightsassociation.c...nking_laws.htm

I'm glad you found them helpful. The great thing about simply saying "this upsets me, I need to leave" is that it makes a point without being judgemental. Even your dh can't say you're meddling with that one.

Ideally, your actions/reactions could lead these moms to wonder if there's a better way to do things - and come to you for help/advice.

I found a website where I could search all of Georgia law, and all I found on corporal punishment was where it is an exception to the rules regarding assault, the how-to's of corporal punishment in education and another law stating that corporal punishment can't be used on inmates.

Hmmm. So corporal punishment is allowed (using paddles even!?!?) in schools, but not allowed in prison. :

So, yeah.... doesn't seem like there's a minimum age for corporal punishment, although I didn't look at County or National Law.