Has anyone tried self regulation with TV?

[WinterStar]

Firstly, apologies if I'm posting in the wrong place.

We were TV free until dd turned 2 years, then a visiting friend helpfully introduced her to the delights of YouTube. Cue about 3 weeks of non stop, all day, cartoons

My "discipline philosophy" (in a nutshell) is one of modelling and self regulation, I don't believe in imposing limits on my dd. If she wants to watch *another* cartoon, that's her choice. I trust her. However, after weeks of her watching cartoons all day, every day, starting to refuse to leave the house, sitting bleary eyed in front of the screen, I really was getting fed up. Then one day she downloaded so many cartoons that we exceeded our download limit and had no internet for the next 24 hours.

She accepted this perfectly well, and I maintained it. She *could* have had cartoons again the next day, but I lied and told her we weren't allowed to download any more. She asked for cartoons, but didn't make a fuss about it. As time went by she asked less and less.

Now she is 2.5, and about a week ago I let her watch a cartoon. Actually, it was an educational "learn how to use the computer" type thing. Wham, we're right back where we were. Her first word in the morning is "cartoon". I have to practically turn somersaults while juggling fire balls to wrench her interest away from the screen. Her best friends called one day and she refused to go out with them....then screamed 2 hours later that she wanted to go out with them

It is much better than it was the first time, I can get her away from the screen more easily - she's out playing with dh now - but still, it's driving me potty. I loved it when we were completely TV/YouTube free, although in some ways I think all these cartoons have rekindled my desire for TV and we are thinking of getting one, which we would just watch maybe on a friday night - but I imagine dd would then get hooked on TV too.

I REALLY don't do limits, they go against everything I believe in. So I'm stuck. I don't know what to do!!

Will dd get bored of YouTube eventually? When? Am I doing something wrong for her to be so fixated on it?

We're actually going abroad on Wednesday, for about 7 weeks, so I have another opportunity for Youtube to just be unavailable, and she will have possibly lost the craving by the time we return. But I don't think I can avoid cartoons forever lol, nor do I want to. Cartoons are fun, it's just the all day, everyday thing I'm really struggling with.

I'd be grateful for any thoughts.

[GoBecGo]

Why don't you do limits? Can she eat ice-cream until there is none? Or throw plates until they're all broken? I'm not trying to be snarky, but are there NO limits at all? Not even to do with violence or hygiene or ANYTHING?

I do limits. DD can watch tv for 30mins on a normal day or more if we can't go out for any reason (illness, horrendous weather - storming, not just rain). I never offer it, but i put it on if she asks for it. The tv itself is set to swtich off after 30mins with a timer, i don't have to do anything. I'm pretty sure that MY kid is incapable of self-regulation on most things because she has no impulse control.

My DD is 27 months. I don't let her use the computer.

[WinterStar]

Originally Posted by GoBecGo

Why don't you do limits? Can she eat ice-cream until there is none? Or throw plates until they're all broken? I'm not trying to be snarky, but are there NO limits at all? Not even to do with violence or hygiene or ANYTHING?

The tv itself is set to swtich off after 30mins with a timer, i don't have to do anything.

Yes, she can eat as much ice-cream as she likes lol, although she's only once eaten more than one bowl, or one cone when we're out. She rarely makes it to the end of a cone tbh. She's never thrown plates! Not sure what you mean by being violent......hygiene has never been an issue.

I believe the best way for a child to learn how to regulate, is to let them do it, to practise it. I also believe we can trust their instincts to do what is best for them. So long as we model the appropriate behaviour they soon pick it up.

Except, it seems, when it comes to cartoons

The timer is an interesting idea, part of the self regulation thing for me is about the child feeling autonomous, able to make their own choices......a timer that seemingly had nothing to do with me might be one answer. Is that something you bought seperately, or is it "built in" to your TV?

[ma_vie_en_rose]

I think the issue with no limit on tv as opposed to ice cream is there is no definite limit to tv that she can really physically take. I mean, she will at some point get full or a tummy ache with too much ice cream, but there really isn't much downside if they watch what is considered too much tv.

I do think that as parents we should step in and limit things that they are not able to limit themselves that can be harmful. I do think tv falls under the category of being harmful when it is out of proportion to healthier activities. Research on tv with children does support that.

I just do not feel that small children have the ability to make good decisions for tv watching. As they get older and you can talk to them about the downside to too much tv, then I think you can let them be more self-regulatory about it. That isn't to say that you can not compromise with your child and find something that works for you both. I just think you may need to take a more active role in guiding her in this.

[BellinghamCrunchie]

I agree with your ideas about self-regulation.

DD self-regulates media very nicely. She prefers to be active anyway. We don't do tv, only dvds, and since she's seen everything already, maybe that's why its less interesting. We do watch youtubes on the Zac Browser (she has a touch screen and can easily use the Zac Browser by herself, plus the browser only allows extremely appropriate content) and she will choose to do something else after a while.

Maybe if might be helpful to choose a media that is self-regulating rather than try to regulate the child or let the child self-regulate when they're having issues with that.

DD doesn't have trouble self-regulating media but she has trouble self-regulating sweets. Today, for example, she had a popsicle and cookies for breakfast. I'm having trouble, like you, letting her regulate. I'm scared to find out what it would take before she moves on to more healthy food, so I put a limit on the cookies when she asked for more . I think I'm going to try even harder to convince DH to quit bringing so many darn treats home. I really don't want to put limits on it.

[aaronsmom]

I think it's a phase. DS went through this with Diego and Wonder Pets on Nick Jr. I let him watch as much as he wanted and after about 3 months (I know that seems like a long time) his interest fizzled out. Now he almost never watches TV. So, I say let her watch them and eventually she'll get bored and move on.

[WinterStar]

Originally Posted by BellinghamCrunchie

Maybe if might be helpful to choose a media that is self-regulating rather than try to regulate the child or let the child self-regulate when they're having issues with that.

DD doesn't have trouble self-regulating media but she has trouble self-regulating sweets.

Do you mean something like the timer idea? Or are you just meaning something that is "safe" - dd has just started to choose and open her own YouTube clips so I do need to get some kind of screening system set up at the very least.

The biscuits for breakfast phase didn't last too long here, maybe 10 days? - she does still occasionally ask for rubbish for breakfast (never any other meal though, there must be a reason for that......?). I don't worry about this, it's not every day any more. Sweets and chocolate are not in limitless supply in the house in the same way cartoons are! I do find that she eats a lot less if it's very high cocoa chocolate, which is much more satisfying. Sweets are rarely brought home, we sometimes buy them when out if she wants them but they get eaten pretty quickly. It's my and dh's cheap milk chocolate(!) that she will gorge on, but like the ice cream she'll stop before it makes her feel sick.

Sooo, maybe 3 months?! All day every day?!! Well, I'm encouraged enough to persist with not imposing limits for now.

I'd love to hear more about how self regulators would react to the 24/7 viewing, with bleary eyes and a reluctance to go outside and play......

[nicoley73]

I believe in self-regulation, and dd (3) does fine with food, sleep, etc. But she is completely unable to self-regulate television. I tried for almost a year, where she progressively watched more and more, and didn't want to do anything else. So now we are tv-free.

I realized that the only reason she started watching in the first place was that I had a newborn and was tired and needed a break. IMO there really isn't much of a benefit from television for her at her age.

It only took 2 days for her to stop asking for the television. Now she doesn't even want to watch if it's on somewhere else. We have much more fun at home and out. In a way I'm glad she couldn't regulate because it forced me to take action and I feel like all of our lives are improved. DH and I also watch much less.

[BellinghamCrunchie]

Originally Posted by WinterStar

Do you mean something like the timer idea? Or are you just meaning something that is "safe" - dd has just started to choose and open her own YouTube clips so I do need to get some kind of screening system set up at the very least.

Actually, I hate the timer idea. She would know I'm setting the timer. She's not naturally losing interest in the activity, an end is being forced on her. I meant more like have a limited number of dvds to choose from, because then she will decide more easily when she's had enough, or a browser that doesn't have unlimited Youtube clips, or maybe having only the same kind of treats available when she wants something sweet. Seems like novelty is what keeps the focus going and going and going...

Anyway DD is only 3.5 so I'm sure we've still got a lot more challenges regarding self-regulation ahead of us.

[Think of Winter]

Originally Posted by aaronsmom

I think it's a phase. DS went through this with Diego and Wonder Pets on Nick Jr. I let him watch as much as he wanted and after about 3 months (I know that seems like a long time) his interest fizzled out. Now he almost never watches TV. So, I say let her watch them and eventually she'll get bored and move on.

This is what I want to do, but it is so hard. I ended up canceling our cable because I couldn't take how much ds was watching. Now he watches videos, and for a few weeks there he was watching much more than I was comfortable with, and dh and I nagged him. But he was sick, and sitting on the couch probably felt good to him. Now he's not watching any, by his choice. I'd love to get some support for self regulating with tv and food. Ds definitlely goes through phases of wanting more than we feel is healthy, and it is very hard to resist stopping him. In fact, it's been impossible for us. If I could get some research showing that this does in fact work, I'd be more motivated.

[hippymomma69]

FWIW, my dd who is 4.5 pretty much self-regulates with the TV watching...but we've also structured her day so there is only so much she could watch. She goes to preschool every day so it's only when she's home that it's an issue.

She goes through phases where she really just wants to veg - and other times when she gets bored with TV and wants to do other things. My DD is special needs and has learned alot of her language from scripting off shows (she needs to hear a phrase over and over to understand it due to her APD) - so I have been very lenient with it.

Now my DS who is much younger (22 months) will sometimes ask to watch cartoons and I will mostly accomodate him by putting in 1 cartoon. But with him I try to mostly have it off.

For the most part, if there is something more interesting to do (play with mommy, etc) they will opt to do that - but if they are bored they fall into the veg mode - so maybe think about structuring the environment so that you are keeping her interest in other things and then TV becomes just one of her activities....

Like have you tried saying "Okay one cartoon, then let's go to the playground"? Something like that works - I guess I'm subtly giving her limits by structuring her day to limit it...

that make sense?

I also think 2.5 is hard to self regulate - by the time she is 4, it will be much easier for you to trust her to self-regulate....my DD definitely went through a phase when she was younger where she watched ALOT of TV - one day it was like 6 hours! Freaked me out (I think I actually did insist on a limit for a little while after that but that was really because I was freaked) - but she would not do that now....maybe she just had to burn out on it?

good luck!
peace,
robyn

[kacymoose]

I have been trying self-regulation with tv with my kids for the last 2 months or so. My 6 year old and one of the 4 year old twins get tired of watching, and move on to other things after a while. The other twin starts watching and does not want to stop. It is a little scary actually. I wonder if he isn't ready for it or if he is just taking longer to get use to the idea that it isn't going to be controlled. I work hard to make more appealing things available. He is binging on tv less and less, and we have many days where no one watches tv. It is still unnerving when he gets into a tv watching day and doesn't want to stop to do anything else.

[poiyt]

Originally Posted by hippymomma69

FWIW, my dd who is 4.5 pretty much self-regulates with the TV watching...but we've also structured her day so there is only so much she could watch. She goes to preschool every day so it's only when she's home that it's an issue.

How do you manage no limits with preschool? Do you find that she gets conflicted, with the freedom at home - and the limits and "rules" when she is watched by others?

As for tv - I agree with the pp's that tv has no limits - people learn to self regulate by listening to their bodies or brains - the body cannot regulate tv b/c it has no physical effect. The brain also gets under stimulated and goes into a catatonic state incapable of regulating itself. Thats why many people eat non stop in front of the tv - the signals cant get through to say stop.

[WhaleinGaloshes]

I agree with your philosophy about limits and self-regulation, too. TV is the thing I've had the most angst about on this journey to date (DD is 34 months now) but it's worked out at least so far. It's currently working fine for us for her to control her TV usage; she's pretty good at it IMO -- she watches more on some days, less others, some not at all.

Your DD may not be able to make good decisions at the moment on a balanced amount of TV viewing, but sometimes we learn to make balanced decisions by indulging unbalanced ones. I know I do the same, and I'm all grown up theoretically. I agree that a lifestyle of too much TV can be harmful, but personally I don't think a 'TV binge' is likely to be. And I do suspect your DD is binging.

FWIW, if I felt unbalanced TV time was harmful even in the short term, I'd consider it something not worth having and get rid of it.

In addition to modeling good TV use and talking with her about her choices and yours, maybe you can look at what nerve the TV is touching for her right now. Passive entertainment can be appealing when we're burned out in other areas, and I think little tiny ones get a bit burned out by all the developmental leaping they do. Maybe other forms of quiet, more passive entertainment would appeal. Or maybe there's something in the story lines or action she's taking in from the cartoons that she's using to work through her own fantasies.

I'm just brainstorming... but my own sense is that she's getting something out of it for now and will come back to more of an equilibrium state given the chance. If she can't, or if you judge the TV is causing her harm right now, I'd personally go TV free. Myself, I wouldn't do it just on the future concerns ("will she ever get bored?") I do think you can negotiate this without compromising your ideas on limits, and will be glad you did in the long run even if it's nerve-wracking now and even if it means sacrificing the TV for a bit (or forever for that matter.)

[GoBecGo]

With violence i meant is she good to hit someone again and again without limit, with hygiene i meant is she good to rub say, oh, anything yukky (i can think of dozens of things my DD has done it with) into her clothes and hair and then not wash it out for days. I was just trying to see where you were coming from on zero limits.

The timer is part of the normal controls of my (old, given to me rather than binned by a friend) tv. It can be set for 15, 30, 45 or 60 mins. I just hit the timer button when i switch it on. It turns off automatically at the end of the elapsed time - i think it's "really" for those people who want to fall asleep with the tv on and not have it on all night? Some days she wants it on as soon as we get up, some days she doesn't ask for it all day. You could easily buy one of those timers that goes between socket and wall and set it to be on a certain period of time during the day so if she wants tv then it works but if she wants it later it doesn't, but that wouldn't just regulate how much she watched it since if she DIDN'T watch it during the "on" time she still couldn't get it to work later on instead.

Somewhat O/T what is the difference between not letting a child have they cookies they like that are in your cupboard and not buying the cookies you know they like in the first place? What's the difference between not limiting and not BEING SEEN to limit. The process etc. seems exactly the same to me. Like in FACT as DD's mother i control her options. She can't go to the store or wash her clothes or go out alone, thus even if i don't say a word she has to eat and wear and play what/where i allow. Is not limiting just limiting through removal of options rather than forbidding of choices?

[laohaire]

Maybe I'm not very informed about the self-regulation train of thought, but my reaction is that we cannot reasonably expect a very small child to self regulate an addiction when grown adults struggle massively with addictions as well.

I personally feel it's my job to keep my child away from addictions until at least she's old enough to recognize and understand the addiction process.

[Suzannah]

Originally Posted by laohaire

Maybe I'm not very informed about the self-regulation train of thought, but my reaction is that we cannot reasonably expect a very small child to self regulate an addiction when grown adults struggle massively with addictions as well.

I personally feel it's my job to keep my child away from addictions until at least she's old enough to recognize and understand the addiction process.

:

[WinterStar]

Originally Posted by GoBecGo

With violence i meant is she good to hit someone again and again without limit, with hygiene i meant is she good to rub say, oh, anything yukky (i can think of dozens of things my DD has done it with) into her clothes and hair and then not wash it out for days. I was just trying to see where you were coming from on zero limits.......

Somewhat O/T what is the difference between not letting a child have they cookies they like that are in your cupboard and not buying the cookies you know they like in the first place? What's the difference between not limiting and not BEING SEEN to limit. The process etc. seems exactly the same to me. Like in FACT as DD's mother i control her options. She can't go to the store or wash her clothes or go out alone, thus even if i don't say a word she has to eat and wear and play what/where i allow. Is not limiting just limiting through removal of options rather than forbidding of choices?

These are pertinent questions, not at all off topic. I'm not sure how coherently I can answer them, but I'll try. Firstly, hitting.....well, I've been lucky enough that dd has not yet hit another child. If she did, yes, I would be aiming for non intervention. But I would intervene if necessary. It would depend on the situation. If she were repeatedly hitting another child, of course I would intervene, but this would not happen because she had some kind of desire to hit others, it would be because she had an unmet need of some kind. So I would really look to meeting that need.

Hitting is is just not something I associate with self regulation at all. My dd had a phase of biting dh and I, and we let her continue with it until she was ready to stop. She was traumatiased at the time after a hospital stay. We reacted, of course, but we helped her work it out of her system. She didn't have a desire to bite, she was just trying to let her frustration out, trying to find a way to soothe her pain. She only did this with us, because she knew was safe to. When she felt secure and in control (of herself) again, she stopped doing it. It took a couple of weeks I think.

Hygiene, yes I let my dd self regulate here. I just model brushing my hair and teeth daily, showering daily.....sometimes she doesn't want to join in, most days she does. That's often enough for me. She's clean, her teeth are clean. When she's dirty, 9 out of 10 times she asks for a shower. If she doesn't, it's cool. I have been known to go to bed dirty myself, when I am exhausted!

Clothes, my dd chooses them herself when she wants to, sometimes she just wants clothes full stop and doesn't care what I pick out. Where/what we play, this is often up to her too. I give her all the possible options (park, shops, friends house, lake....) and let her choose. I guess I really make an effort to NOT control her options. Sometimes I just say "we're doing this...." and that's fine, that's not me controlling her it's me saying "this is what I need to do today", and her coming along with me.

For sure it is ME that does the grocery shopping. If she did we would have a trolley full of biscuits, yoghurts and ice cream. Not sure how she'd pay for it though! Yes, I do control what's in our house to the extent that I don't just buy biscuits, but I do always buy *some* biscuits, and all the other stuff she likes which one might consider "treats". Within my budget of course. I buy myself some chocolate each week, I do the same for her. She's free to choose whatever she wants, whenever, from what's available in the house. I do agree with you though, it is not strictly self regulation in that I do the shopping, but I let her feel as free as is practicable to wrt making food choices.

That's the key for me, that my dd *feels* autonomous, and able to make as many decisions as possible with regards to her own life. Certainly society makes true autonomy impossible for a toddler, but I want to give as much of a sense of it as I possibly can.

[swampangel]

Originally Posted by laohaire

Maybe I'm not very informed about the self-regulation train of thought, but my reaction is that we cannot reasonably expect a very small child to self regulate an addiction when grown adults struggle massively with addictions as well.

I personally feel it's my job to keep my child away from addictions until at least she's old enough to recognize and understand the addiction process.

ITA. It's my job to provide healthy food options in our house, be active with my kids, get them outside often, setup playdates with friends and make sure their media intake isn't excessive or inappropriate. TV is totally addictive. I would never expect a child to be able to self-regulate their viewing time.

That said, my oldest is totally able to self-regulate with most things because once he understands the reason why it is important to limit certain things, he's totally on board. I think this has everything to do with who he is, his temperment, etc. My youngest, otoh, has a harder time with it.

The bottom line, IME, is that we are unique individuals and parenting is all about paying close attention to your child and adjusting yourself and your approach accordingly. I like the idea of self-regulation in theory, but I know it doesn't work well for all families. I would try to let go of your notions about what is philosophically best and look at your child and how this is affecting her, in particular. What do you think would be helpful for her? Would talking about your concerns work with her? Coming up with an agreement together about viewing time? Maybe a game or challenge to see what other things you can come up with to do instead?

Good luck with it. It is so hard, I think, when our ideals are challenged. I struggle with that daily.

[WinterStar]

Anyway, the good news is, she is self regulating

Thank you for all of your thoughts and suggestions, it's really helped to clarify my thinking. HippyMomma, your suggestion about structuring the day, and suggesting "one cartoon and then the park...?" was really what I had been doing, but it was feeling as though the park had to have ice creams, bouncy castles, lions and tigers and trapeze artists before she would even contemplate it! LOL.

But yesterday she watched only half an hour of cartoons, and NONE today.......she didn't even ask for them today!

This is a world apart from what happened 6 months ago when it was cartoons from dawn to dusk, EVERY day. I did *feel* that she was self regulating this time, but it IS scary when they want to watch all day long. I know that one thing I have done differently, apart from making an effort to be more creative with my suggested alternatives, and making sure I time my suggestions well....is to make NO judgement whatsover. "You want another cartoon? Great, which one would you like now?", rather than, "are you sure? aren't you bored yet? Wouldn't you rather.....?".

The suggested alternatives have to come just as suggestions, take them or leave them, and they have to come at the right moment, and you have to be genuinely prepared for the child to say "no thanks", and to just say "okay" without trying to persuade them.

Thanks again for all the advice!