WWYD, if anything? - Page 2

[MilkTrance]

Originally Posted by limabean

Eh, bath towels generally don't leave the home, so no one but you will really even see it. As for the "Got Milk," I do have (breast)milk, and my baby does drink it from a bottle sometimes, so it wouldn't even occur to me to be upset over something like that.

I pumped for my baby early on because we had latch issues. So there really was milk in that bottle, at least for him.

Lots of moms pump, especially those in the States who don't have extended maternity leave.

[Artemnesia]

I have a huge problem with the image of bottles being constantly used as a symbol for babies. It's a special tool that only some women need, not a necessity that everyone should assume all babies drink from.

I would not keep the towel, although on second though I might cut it up and use it as an insert for cloth diapers...

But no, I'd never mention the gift to her.

FWIW I'm kind of a science-minded chick myself and honestly WAOB didn't go over that well with me when I was pregnant. It's much more of a "how-to" rather than a "why" and as much as I love LLL I don't even think it's the best "how-to" available...others like "Breastfeeding Made Simple" are more clearly written and organized...but anyway what DID make an enormous impression on me was "Milk, Money, and Madness" (Baumslag) That is now an automatic gift for all mamas expecting #1...

[Lizzardbits]

If it were me, I'd just accept the towel and do one of three things. 1. Cut off the entire end that the bottle was on and use it as a bath towel. 2. Cut up the entire towel and use as baby wipes or inserts. 3. Either you or someone that you know who is a wiz at sewing, (a WAHM perhaps?) sew a cloth diaper out of it. That way you are still using the towel and not looking a gift horse in mouth.

[readytobedone]

Originally Posted by Artemnesia

I have a huge problem with the image of bottles being constantly used as a symbol for babies. It's a special tool that only some women need, not a necessity that everyone should assume all babies drink from.

i don't much like the use of bottles to represent babies all the time, either, but i do take issue with the idea that bottles are a special tool that only some women need. sure, not ALL women use bottles, but most women do, and that's because if you want to WOH, or even want to leave your baby's side for more than a couple hours during the first year, you need some way to get nutrients into your child, and the bottle is a good way to do that.

IMO the notion that bottles are unnecessary or extra or somehow to be avoided really gives mamas who WOH more grief than they already have to deal with for WOH. if i'd tried to avoid bottles on top of everything else i was trying to do in the first year, i would have gone nuts.

i see what you're saying; a bottle is not biologically necessary. but neither are cars or electricity or books or MDC

i would argue that bottles are largely (not wholly) necessary for women living in the contemporary u.s., where the ability to be physically separated from your baby is accepted and in large part taken for granted by others.

[RoadWorkAhead]

My family actual thought that was a reference to BFing since breastmilk is the only milk for kids under 1...otherwise its formula. So I'd leave it be.

[kimbie]

Wwyd

Ladies, ladies- Ever hear of the phrase making a mountain out of a molehill?

[Artemnesia]

Originally Posted by readytobedone

i don't much like the use of bottles to represent babies all the time, either, but i do take issue with the idea that bottles are a special tool that only some women need. sure, not ALL women use bottles, but most women do, and that's because if you want to WOH, or even want to leave your baby's side for more than a couple hours during the first year, you need some way to get nutrients into your child, and the bottle is a good way to do that.

Sure. That's fine and everything. Most people also use those nasal aspirator bulbs but that doesn't make it an appropriate universal symbol for "baby." Because most people use a car doesn't make it a good symbol for "human being." And that's exactly how bottles are being used. My beef with that is one thing and one thing only. Nursing has become displaced as the regular way to feed a baby and this is one of the symptoms. Say and think what you want about bottles, but they replace the breast and can certainly be detrimental to the breastfeeding relationship. This hurts women and babies. Bottles are not always harmless regardless of what they're filled with.

IMO the notion that bottles are unnecessary or extra or somehow to be avoided really gives mamas who WOH more grief than they already have to deal with for WOH. if i'd tried to avoid bottles on top of everything else i was trying to do in the first year, i would have gone nuts.

I don't think they're unnecessary but I think they're extremely overused and considered harmless when they are not. This isn't about giving WOH mothers grief. It's a breastfeeding issue.

i would argue that bottles are largely (not wholly) necessary for women living in the contemporary u.s., where the ability to be physically separated from your baby is accepted and in large part taken for granted by others.

I contend that defending or re-instating a breastfeeding culture (even a modern one where bottles are widely used) from the encroachments of a bottle-feeding culture and mentality is not small potatoes or a molehill-- it's crucial. There are risks to the child and the mother from upsetting that process with bottle-feeding, either partially or fully, and women can make their own choices but they have a right to that information and they aren't getting it. Human milk is a birthright and feeding from the breast is the first choice for infant feeding. Mother's pumped milk is second choice. Donor milk is third choice. Formula is the last choice. That's the hierarchy according to the AAP.

Please consider this great article from mothering:

Taking Down the Almighty Bottle

[MaryJaneLouise]

Originally Posted by Artemnesia

Please consider this great article from mothering:

Taking Down the Almighty Bottle

Too long to quote, but awesome post. And thanks for the link to the article above, that is also good food for thought.

[readytobedone]

Originally Posted by Artemnesia

Sure. That's fine and everything. Most people also use those nasal aspirator bulbs but that doesn't make it an appropriate universal symbol for "baby." Because most people use a car doesn't make it a good symbol for "human being." And that's exactly how bottles are being used. My beef with that is one thing and one thing only. Nursing has become displaced as the regular way to feed a baby and this is one of the symptoms. Say and think what you want about bottles, but they replace the breast and can certainly be detrimental to the breastfeeding relationship. This hurts women and babies. Bottles are not always harmless regardless of what they're filled with.

right. i said i don't think bottles should be used as symbols for babies. but that doesn't make them "special tools" that most people don't need.

This isn't about giving WOH mothers grief. It's a breastfeeding issue.

see, i don't think you can separate breastfeeding as an issue from the women who might potentially breastfeed--most of whom WOH. the two issues are intimately connected.

Human milk is a birthright and feeding from the breast is the first choice for infant feeding. Mother's pumped milk is second choice. Donor milk is third choice. Formula is the last choice. That's the hierarchy according to the AAP.

i agree that all babies should receive human milk. yes, pumped milk is the "second choice" for the baby, but sometimes it's the best choice for the mother. the mother counts in this, too. that's the whole thing. there are actually WOMEN attached to breasts, and whether they WOH or SAH, they live lives outside of breastfeeding and child care.

one thing that the lactivist cause doesn't talk much about is the fact that the "bottle-feeding culture" is actually partly responsible for allowing women to enter the workforce in large numbers in the first place. feminism owes a debt to bottle-feeding. does that mean i think we shouldn't reinstate breastfeeding as the normal and best way to feed? no, i absolutely think breastfeeding should be promoted wherever possible. but it's an over-simplification to claim breastfeeding is great for women, and bottle-feeding has been nothing but wretched. the truth is a lot more complicated than that, and if, as lactivists, we're going to make real headway, i think we need to acknowledge the complexity of this legacy we have.

[Hippie Mama in MI]

Pitch the towel and try to change her way of thinking from the inside out... by showing her how wonderful BFing can be. Good luck and congrats Mama!

[JustJamie]

Originally Posted by readytobedone

one thing that the lactivist cause doesn't talk much about is the fact that the "bottle-feeding culture" is actually partly responsible for allowing women to enter the workforce in large numbers in the first place. feminism owes a debt to bottle-feeding.

Why does feminism owe a debt to bottle-feeding? For allowing a woman to work out of the home, which was historically the man's prerogative and responsibility? Turn it around. By saying that women leaving the home is an improvement, and the thing women should want to do, you're downplaying the importance of what was historically the woman's role - raising the children and maintaining the home. In reality, raising children is arguably the most important part of anyone's life, because it is through our children that the species as a whole can continue to exist. IMO, downplaying 'women's work' is markedly ANTI feminist.

[readytobedone]

Originally Posted by JustJamie

Why does feminism owe a debt to bottle-feeding? For allowing a woman to work out of the home, which was historically the man's prerogative and responsibility? Turn it around. By saying that women leaving the home is an improvement, and the thing women should want to do, you're downplaying the importance of what was historically the woman's role - raising the children and maintaining the home. In reality, raising children is arguably the most important part of anyone's life, because it is through our children that the species as a whole can continue to exist. IMO, downplaying 'women's work' is markedly ANTI feminist.

because there is a power difference between working outside the home (paid work) and working inside the home (unpaid work). because working outside the home in greater numbers has allowed women to have much more financial autonomy and that, in turn, has allowed them greater sexual, reproductive, and civic freedoms.

i'm not downplaying the importance of raising children at all. it's extremely important. unfortunately, however, before women worked outside the home in mass numbers, i really don't think we (as a collective) had a better life. i think the fact that many women WOH benefits all women, especially those who don't WOH. and bottle-feeding made that possible, historically speaking. it brought a lot of problems with it, and that's what the lactivist cause is trying to address, and rightly so. but the legacy of bottle-feeding is a lot more complicated IMHO than just "society took a dreadfully wrong turn, and we need to go back to things they way they were before bottles were ever on the scene."

[jessjgh1]

how about a light-humored joke...

"We loved the bath towels (you 'needed them, right?), but dh keeps joking that he wishes there were boobs on them"

I 3rd or so the recommendation for So That's What They Are For-- or something like Dr Sears Baby Book- which covers breastfeeding.
I like that because it covers everything, and I give it to my mainstream friends and mention that the reason I like it so much is that it covers 2 years and has GREAT ideas for games and things you can do with baby by developmental ages/stages.

Jessica

[elanorh]

I recommend (or gift, or both) So That's What They're For to all my friends when they're pregnant - it's humorous but factual, and it doesn't (IMO) come across in a heavy-handed way. So mothers who are 'not sure' don't feel judged by the book as they read it (but they're going to have good information to reduce their risks of sabotaging bf for themselves).

I also recommend The Baby Book (Sears) for the same reason; it's APish, and has good science-based information in it moreso than say, the What to Expect books. And it assumes that the baby will be breastfed.

So, what I'd do if I were you, is gift her with both of those books (or recommend them to her early in the pregnancy, tell her you'll loan her your copies etc.). I think there's supposed to be a good one for mothers who work outside the home specifically too, if you anticipate that's what she'll be doing after baby arrives. Hopefully someone knows the title of that book ....

I also recommend kellymom.com to everyone too - because her information is cited and quick to find late at night when a new mom is panicking!

In terms of the towel, just ignore it. Use it since you say you need more towels; if you have a machine and want to crop that part of the towel off (I'm assuming it's on a corner) - then do so. Send a nice "thank you" and don't worry.

I'd say she's so indoctrinated (as many people are) by the bottles = babies idea that she didn't even think about it when she bought it. She's likely to develop her knowledge in this area more, once she's nursing her own little one. Especially if she's watched you nursing your babe, she's going to probably have some goals in that area I'd hope.