Can't get baby to "drink". Exhausted from pumping.

[Sol_Solved]

Uff, I'm feeling a little tired here. I have a two week old that was really not interested in nursing from the beginning. At first, it was because he'd been sucking on his fists in utero so he'd point his tongue up. And move his arms and legs frantically. So, we swaddled him and worked on his palate with a finger until he was sucking the finger wonderfully.

Then, he'd latch, suck three times and unlatch. Move his head and arms around, I'd latch him again. Rinse and repeat.

I went home and breastfed on demand every two hours for three days and he lost almost a pound, even if he was on the breast for 45 min or 1:30 h until he fell asleep. He'd cry his head off in the meantime.

Started pumping and got really little milk at first (half ounce or so in 20 minutes). Started syringe feeding and supplemented with formula for four days until my supply went up slowly.

Stopped formula yesterday, and I'm barely, barely pumping enough to feed him. He seems to want to eat more and more ounces each day. Yesterday I thought we had an extra 2 oz pumped, which was a big relief, but we needed them at night. So I'm up every 2 hours pumping, and then feeding him.

If I offer him the boob first he gets completely frustrated and it's super hard to calm him down. So, I feed him with the syringe while he's agitated (around 2 ounces worth) and when he calms down slightly, I offer the boob. Like this I don't need to swaddle him, which I also hate.

He does a lot better, stays latched and puts all his focus on sucking. I watched breastfeeding videos and tried to look at his chin for the drinking thing, and thought it was fine, even if he sucks thrice and then pauses every single time. Tried to do breast compressions and thought it was working.

Then I saw that my nipple had come off his mouth and he was still doing the same chin thing. So he's really not drinking at all, even when at the nipple.

Also, I never had to do anything to "break" the latch. I can slide my nipple off his mouth easily.

I've seen three or four lactation consultants and I'll probably make another appointment soon, but I'm feeling really disheartened. Pumping is really making me anxious, since I can't seem to get ahead at all, and if I fall behind we'll have to go back to formula which I hate. And I even started resenting that he wants to keep eating more and more when I thought I had pumped enough for two feedings and it ends up almost empty in one.

I have no idea what else to do to get him on the breast and drinking. I know I need him to latch the way he latches on my pinky, but on the nipple, but I'm lost in the middle. I have no idea why he can't, when he's focused and eager and opening his mouth super big.

Any pointers? I would just love if I could at least feed him 2 oz until he relaxes and then truly top him off from the breast. He also gets a lot of comfort from the sucking and I hate supplanting that with a syringe. Not to mention that pumping is not fun.

[RootSnort]

I will let some other wonderful person on here help you with latch, but I will say that in order to help you not stress about the milk supply, would you be willing to get a one-time donation of pumped milk on Milkshare? It would allow you to immediately have your own freezer stash, and take a lot of the pressure off of you. That stress does not help you make milk, and it's no fun.

I am so sorry for what you are going through. : You are doing all the right things, so something has to work!

[tree-hugger]

It sounds like you are doing a lot of things that are helpful...the breast compressions, the syringe feedings, and eliminating the formula. That's really hard to be pumping AND syringe feeding. If you can get the baby to drink straight from the boob, it will be so much easier for you.

If he just slides off the nipple easily, then it sounds like there is something wrong with the latch.

Are the LC's that you've seen IBCLC's? If not, look for an IBCLC.

LLL is a wonderful resource and often they have some ideas when everybody else has still not solved a problem. Look for a local meeting and/or call a local leader.

Have you had the baby specifically checked for tongue tie and other similar problems by someone who is skilled in diagnosing this? An IBCLC should also do a suck evaluation to find out if he's sucking the right way. If he isn't then there are suck training exercises that you can do to teach him how to suck properly.

Hang in there. I hope you get the problem solved soon!

[GooeyRN]

Call an LC to talk about getting a referral to a pt for suck training. I have been stalking you. You are really doing a great job and you are so dedicated. Keep it up!

[DocsNemesis]

Hugs! I didnt have the same issue, but my ds would not nurse, he was scared of the boob! lol. He would scream and freak out when it came near him. I know he had nipple confusion though-but in any case, I pumped for 3 months, I was getting so tired of it, and then somehow, one day, he latched on! I did my own wierd thing and tricked him with his bottle nipple on my breast, then pulled it off and he latched right on. (I had tried a nipple shield and he hated that too). He nursed for a year

You are doing a great job with pumping. It really sounds like a latch issue and the fact that he is at least trying is really encouraging. Id definately find a very good LC and try to figure out why he isnt latching right. And I second the tongue tie thing.

[PudnHead]

I am not sure I understand about the latching, but if he is just not latching correctly because he is not getting enough milk than you can try the SNS (supplemental nursing system). Here is a link about it: http://www.amazon.com/Medela-SNS-Sup.../dp/B000NEDGB8. With this system you put BM (or formula) into the container. Tubes come out of the container and somehow attach to your nipples (not sure if that is description is correct but it is probably close). The point of it is that you can BF your child and when he sucks your breast he will get the BM from the container. Hence he won't be so frustrated at the breast. In addition, it helps simulate your breast and should boost your supply.

I also wanted to add that I had a lot of problems BFing DS and even had to give him formula. In fact, the first two weeks of his life he got more formula than BM. I worked very hard and got him back to the breast when he was one month old. By the time he was two months, I was able to stop supplementing. In other words, it is possible to get him to exclusively BF so don't give up hope.

[Sol_Solved]

Thanks everyone! We ended up caving in and giving him 3 oz of formula last night, because I had slept 2 hours in the last 24 and just couldn't get up to pump again.

However, this caused me to wake up engorged (after several days with really deflated boobs!) and that made me much more willing to pump even more (got 4, 2, 3 and 1 oz), and it also made it easier for him to latch. So now I have 4 oz stashed, at least until tonight. I'm really hoping I can "save" them and start building a little stash. I'll be a lot happier if I don't need to pump right before each feeding, it makes me very anxious.

We're meeting with another lactation consultant soon, and this time I plan to syringe feed him beforehard, until he's a little hungry but calm, so that we can work exclusively on his latch. I think that if he can latch and I can make more succesful compressions we could be on our road. I don't mind starting him off with the syringe so that he's not frustrated, but I'm just not able to keep up with pumping 100% of his intake. Not to mention that the week 3 growth spurt is around the corner! I'm having oatmeal in the meantime, hoping for my supply to go up a little more.

Thankfully he really likes nursing, even if it's mostly comofrt sucking. I just wish I knew just how much milk he's getting. But I know it's not enough, I've been giving him 2 oz by syringe, then putting him to the boob for a good 20 minutes, and after that he still takes the syringe again, so he must not be getting much at all.

I'm just hoping it'll get a tiny bit easier soon. Be it that my supply increases enough, that his latch gets better, or that we can let him sleep for longer stretches (still waking him up every 2 hours to eat since he's not back to birth weight). Any little change would help me right now.

::

His latch is totally puzzling me, though, I don't understand how it can be so complicated. The guy opens wide, plunges forward happily, I point the nipple towards his palate, do the sandwich hold, etc. There's just no vacuum, though, I can always slide it off from his mouth easily. And the chin thing confuses me, I have no idea if he's getting a mouthful or not.

[Sol_Solved]

PudnHead

I have a supplemental nurser but I'm leary to use it. He's very happy to get on the boob even if there's not much to eat, so I feel that the advantage of the supplemental nurser would be lost, and it'd be one more thing to wean off later on. I've also used the syringe to let drops fall into his mouth from my nipple, but it was wasting too much breastmilk.

I'm hoping it's either something with his latch that can be solved somewhat simply, or at least something that he'll outgrow eventually. The sooner the better!

[GooeyRN]

I used an SNS in the early days. (the first 6.5 weeks, actually) and it really wasn't too bad to wean off of. If you go that route, I would be happy to talk with you about weaning off of it. Really, all I did was open up the tubing until he got a let-down, (so he wasn't frustrated) then I would close it off. It took less than a week to wean off of. I didn't do that until he was effectively nursing, though. PM me if you want to talk about it/go that route.

I also bought a baby scale for $70 so I could weigh him before and after feeds and to make sure he was growing enough. It was cheaper to do that than to use so much gas going to the LC's office every day.

You really are going the extra mile. Please do something nice for yourself, whether its a manicure, a long undisturbed bath, lunch with a friend, or buying yourself something that you have been wanting for awhile. You deserve it!

[Sol_Solved]

Originally Posted by GooeyRN

You really are going the extra mile. Please do something nice for yourself, whether its a manicure, a long undisturbed bath, lunch with a friend, or buying yourself something that you have been wanting for awhile. You deserve it!

Thanks! Well, I was planning on "pampering" myself with some postpartum therapy, but at $20/session copay, I'm rethinking it!

::

I'm seeing the lactation consultant tomorrow. Hopefully things will work out.

[tree-hugger]

I hope the LC gives you some useful information and ideas tomorrow. Good luck!

[visrumxl5]

Sns!

HUgs to you, mama, it's so rough when BF doesn't go as planned..

I second the SNS. It enabled me to have a BF relationship despite very low supply. Now that I am off it, my LO is refusing the breast (3 months old). It might work for you, since babies respond to flow at the breast.

DR Newman put it well, I thought when he said that there was no such thing as nipple confusion. The baby isn't confused. He just prefers the fast flow, however he gets it.

[PatioGardener]

Ask the LC to check for both posterior and anterior tongue-ties - often a cause of low suction. I hope it gets better for you soon - you are doing great, hang int here!

[Sol_Solved]

Thanks everyone, we're leaving for the LC in a little while.

Thankfully, yesterday I was able to outpump him! Right now I have almost 7 oz in the fridge. That gives me so much peace of mind. We'll probably use them up going to the LC and back, but still, I might just make it another day without formula. I'm also pumping more per session, around 3 oz now, so it's been steadily raising. One week ago I was only getting 1 oz per pumping. Not getting up every 2 hours to pump at night makes me a lot nicer to be around.

[PudnHead]

I hope your LC session was helpful and you solve the problem quickly. Good luck!

[Sol_Solved]

Well, it worked! Turns out that he wasn't getting the nipple deep enough in his tongue to trigger the sucking response, even if I was doing the sandwich thing and jamming it in. So the LC showed me how to pinch the opposite side of the nipple to make it longer, so to speak, and then pretty much forcefully thrust it in his mouth when he opens. He latched and nursed for 20 minutes non stop at the hospital, even if he had just had 3 oz by sryinge!

Now, we came home and it was a little tricky. But then, he was frantic because of the long ride, and tired, and I was exhausted too, and my boobs were leaking like they haven't since my milk came in. Still, he latched a bit, maybe 5 minutes, in the middle of the feeding. I'll try again after we get some rest, but I;m pretty sure we can figure it out now that we both saw how it feels when it works. In the meantime, I'm pumping.

[tree-hugger]

Yay!!!!!!! That is wonderful news. Thank you for updating us. I hope that things continue to improve for you both. All your determination is really paying off.

[Sol_Solved]

Thanks! I'm still worried that he won't latch deep enough and I won't realize and he'll start losing weight again, so I'm feeding him with the syringe both before and after the boob. We'll see how it goes.

[Bookworm?]

I dont' think anyone has mentioned skin to skin yet. Frequent skin to skin contact can help a baby to find the breast on their own between feedings or before they are showing early hunger cues. If you could get him to latch on before he is too hungry and frustrated you may be able to eliminate the suringe feeding before breast. Also, maybe offer less in the syringe before the breast. It sounds like he is just hanging out at the breast waiting for his supplement. You could try to latch him on when hungry, then give a little from the syringe then try the latch again. The reason you can just pull the nipple out of his mouth is because he is not really latched on. Any time he spends like that is not really active sucking. He may be pushing you nipple out with his tongue. Continue with trying to get the nipple way back in the back of his mouth. Make him open wide even for the syringe, use it or your finger to gently press on his tongue helping him to know to keep it down and forward.
Sorry this seems brusque, there is a fight breaking out here. Keep up the good work mama, you sound really dedicated.

[Sol_Solved]

Thanks! I guess he's proably not drinking again. Sigh. Although he really keeps trying to open his mouth super big and thrusts himself onto my nipple. He did soften my breasts, though, but he took 3 oz by syringe, I pumped for 12 minutes and then he spent 1 hour at the breast and followed by 1 more oz by syringe. I guess he didn't get much from the breast, then. He really didn't want to let go, though.

I think I'm going to try again tomorrow. I forgo how terribly exhausted I feel after breastfeeding and today I am just spent after trying twice + taking care of him. So I'll go pump.