Workshop #4 - Baby’s Early Years; Vaccination

[Ms. Mom]

Workshop #4 - Baby’s Early Years; Vaccinations

Welcome to our third Natural Family Living discussion: Baby’s Early Years: Vaccinations. This discussion will key in on Part 2 – Baby’s Early Years: Vaccinations from Peggy O’Mara’s book Natural Family Living.

Some of the topics we'll discuss are;

• Vaccination Concerns
• Risks and Adverse Effects of Vaccinations
• Vaccine Effectiveness
• Natural and Artificial Immunity
• Increase in Chronic Disease
• Risks and Benefits of Disease and Vaccinations
• Current Vaccines and Schedules
• Vaccines and Big Business
• What are Vaccines?
• History of Vaccines
• Vaccines and Parents' Rights
• Making the Decision
• Selective and Delayed?

We realize that this is a topic that many of our members are passionate about. Please keep in mind that Mothering is neither pro or anti vaccine. You will encounter posts here that do not feel right to you and that’s ok. This is an open dialog and we ask that everyone be respectful of others' opinions. Take what feels right to you and leave the rest behind. Please be respectful to all our members so that the workshop can be a place of meaningful and respectful discussion for all our members.

We would like to invite everyone to join us no matter where you are in your thinking or feelings. These discussions are meant to be nonjudgmental so please keep in mind when reading members' responses that this is a true discussion based on Natural Family Living and not a place to debate or criticize. Feel free to tell your story; what were your initial thoughts about vaccines? Do you feel good information was available to you? What have you learned that you’d like to share? What would you like more information on?

We’re excited to offer this workshop and hope it will give our members a glimpse into the grassroots of Mothering magazine and Natural Family Living.

This workshop will be facilitated by our moderators Arwyn and Amnesiac. They are here to guide the discussion and keep it on topic. They will occasionally post references or ask questions to keep the conversation flowing. Please feel free to contact them at any time with questions, suggestions or concerns. Please keep in mind our workshop guidelines and current user agreement at all times.

We are compiling a Natural Family Living Resources Sticky which we will update with each workshop. Please feel free to refer to it for more information. For articles and information on our current workshop, please see the Baby’s Early Years; Vaccinations page.

[amnesiac]

I'm so glad we have the opportunity to share in this vaccination workshop. I hope you'll all enjoy the discussion & walk away learning something new.

I think this subject is one that many parents find incredibly overwhelming. It's often hard to know where to even start. Deciding how I felt about vaccination in general and how I felt about vaccination for my own family was an extremely long road. This issue was actually how I ended up finding my way here to MDC.

I look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts and challenges!

[Jazmommie]

I also have been learning through Mothering--started after my dd turned one and I had to cancel the appt-twice and then found a new Dr .
That was 8 1/2 years agoo--I was on the internet every day for 6 years --here mostly.
I have a 1 1/2 year old now also --my 20 year old ,16 year old and 9 year old are learning along with me .
I have a collection of books on health and vaccines and share my information with all who are on the same path as I .

I am still learning all the time -my challenge is trying to keep up with all the new information now that I am working full time .Thanks for being here .

[AnalogWife]

When I was pregnant I thought the No-Vax people walked a little too close to the edge for my tastes. I had an unplanned c-section and was in the hospital for a few days after DS was born, and by the third day I had a new roomie who had just given birth that morning. She was, shall we say, a little rough around the edges and when her OB came in to visit (whom I knew to be a high-risk OB) she mentioned having to give her baby the HepB shot. I snickered to myself and thought "OMG, that mom has hepatitis!" which was really bad and judgmental. Then the next day they came at MY son with a HepB shot, and I was thinking "Hey, wait a minute!!!" because IIIIIiiiii didn't have hepatitis. I was still dumb enough to follow, but it put up the first red flag, and then at DS's 2-month appt I discussed with the pedi how vaxes were making me uncomfortable, and he talked me into a slower schedule. After that, I started coming here and reading more and more about vaccines and at the 4-month appt I told the pedi I didn't want anymore vax, or to at least suspend them. It was sooo uncomfortable, the pedi seemed very sullen after I had mentioned it, but he's backed off ever since.

There's so much to know about them, and it's true, VERY overwhelming! I still don't know what our plans our, if we'll vax later or not. Stressful!

[Ms. Mom]

It's interesting what puts up the red flags isn't it? For me, it was the Chicken Pox vaccine. I was S&D and then a nurse said "and now we have a chick pox vaccine!" I laughed thinking she was joking and made a comment about "do you have the one for bruises and common cold too?" When I found out she was serious I really stared doing serious research. I didn't have internet when ds was a baby, and everything I found in libraries was very pro-vaccine. It was difficult to find good information.

[cherimoya]

It took me a long time to finally be ok with the decision to not vax. Instinctively I knew from the first shot they gave my ds in Canada that it was not good, not what I wanted etc. It's hard to explain that feeling, but I knew I wasn't 100% ok with it. Eventually, after a lot of pressure from my Dr I decided to stick to the *basic* school vax schedule in Canada (doesn't include HepB, RotaVirus, Chickenpox & a few others).

So 4.5 years later my dd is born in the USA and the ped, hospital staff, other Moms are telling me I should get the HepB vax on baby's birth-day.....that's when I thought this is CRAZY!!! I read more (again!), I watched some good videos (Tenpenny), and read the forums here and after giving my dd her first vax at 3mo and lots of crying I KNEW that it was NO more vaccinations for us! It was not an easy choice, or an easy journey to get to this point, but I feel 100% sure this is right for us. We didn't give my ds his 4/5yo shots either.

The hardest part for me now is giving myself a break; i feel guilty about the shots that i have given my kids

[cherimoya]

also....I asked myself why did I have my kids vaccinated, and the answer was because I felt pressured, not because I thought it was a great idea!

[berkeleyp]

I feel totally overwhelmed by the vax debate and decision. I don't feel like I have the time, energy, and knowledge to make a truly informed choice. I am scared of the vaxes but also the diseases for the most part. With my toddler, I was critical of the vaxes but ultimately got convinced by my doc to do most of them. We skipped Hep B, Pox, and MMR and I think she never finished Hib. Now I am revisiting the issue with my new babe and really wishing I had more time to read. I read Stephanie Cave and started the Sears Vax book but I'd like to read more really anti vax stuff. Mostly I hate all the fear mongering on both sides of the issue. I am frustrated that the $$$ stands in the way of evidence.

[Materfamilias]

I read the Dr Sears book on vax and am pretty leery of anything more than his selective vax schedule now. We're in the process of selecting a pediatrician now who will not just tolerate but actively support selective vax. We interviewed one who had not done any reading on the whole debate, particularly the possible effects of aluminum (which is what freaks me out). He pointed out that no studies had been done that showed any problems from aluminum, which for me is a huge problem. He seemed to think no studies = no problems. For me, that's an argument ex silentio. He did promise to read up on it but also promised to fight us every time we came in about the vax. So now I'm looking into other pediatricians. I do think I've found one, but he's quite a distance from us...
One question I have is whether people have had trouble with daycares/schools not accepting children on delayed schedules.

[Kiddoson]

We do not vax. at all. we had no problems with daycare. To me, when my Dr told me when DD was 2 weeks old she would get 5 vaccines at once in 2 weeks my gut said NO WAY. I went with that and researched like crazy. I found a ped that would support us and she is a very healthy 8 year old. DS is 1 year, I think if he had been vaccinated our skin issues would be 10 fold. They say a childs immune system is not complete til age 8, makes sense that bombarding them when they are developing so fast causes problems.

[RedPony]

My husband and I decided not to vax our dd before her birth. I have always been very leary of what I put into my own body and I knew I needed to protect dd from these things as well. She's now an extremely healthy two yo who's been to our family doc exactly once at three months (mostly for the benefit of my MIL ).

[alegna]

Originally Posted by Materfamilias

One question I have is whether people have had trouble with daycares/schools not accepting children on delayed schedules.

In most cases, you can't *technically* vax like that and have kids in daycares/schools. The way around it is to get a religious exemption and not tell them about any further vaxes.

-Angela

[mean_jeannie]

Originally Posted by alegna

In most cases, you can't *technically* vax like that and have kids in daycares/schools. The way around it is to get a religious exemption and not tell them about any further vaxes.

-Angela

This is what we do. Ds got the regular schedule through nine months. He hasn't been back for anymore since. I primarily wanted to wait on the MMR, but at this time I see no point in it. Ds is 2 yo and is only in daycare now, but I have the exemption for when I need it.

Current daycare only cares about updated physical, hasn't demanded updated vax records yet.

[Arwyn]

Well, this was supposed to be my Welcome! post, but I'm a little late. Anyway, welcome, and thanks for the great discussion so far.

Originally Posted by amnesiac

I think this subject is one that many parents find incredibly overwhelming. It's often hard to know where to even start.

This is me. We haven't vaccinated Naked Baby because my general philosophy is one needs convincing evidence to justify any intervention (in pregnancy, birth, and life in general), and I'm just not convinced -- but I'm not convinced in either direction. It does feel absolutely overwhelming. Frankly, I feel like I just don't have the time and energy to research the subject fully (I see people on here, as a previous poster mentioned, spending almost all their time investigating the issue, and I just have too much else to do!), and try to distill truth from all the noise. I feel OK with our decision to rely on the default of not vaccinating, and I would encourage anyone to look into the issue at least enough to know to question all the pro-vaccine propaganda, but I can't say I know this is The Right Choice.

Originally Posted by berkeleyp

Mostly I hate all the fear mongering on both sides of the issue. I am frustrated that the $$$ stands in the way of evidence.

This is how I feel too.

[mamamia10]

Originally Posted by RedPony

My husband and I decided not to vax our dd before her birth. I have always been very leary of what I put into my own body and I knew I needed to protect dd from these things as well. She's now an extremely healthy two yo who's been to our family doc exactly once at three months (mostly for the benefit of my MIL ).

ditto here. Vax does not sit right with myself or dh.
we went once to the ped (at 9mo) hust so he could count her fat rolls

[leomom]

I vaccinated dd#1 on schedule through 9 months just b/c I didn't even know there was an option or choice. I just blindly went to the well baby visits and did as I was told.

DD#2 has had no shots, other than the Vit K shot in the hospital.

I feel very overwhelmed and scared either way, but the bottom line for me is that I cannot inject known toxins into my little ones. I believe there really must be a better way and I have faith that things will change. So, I'm holding out and in the meantime I have a philosophical exemption for schools- which is very easy to get for those of you who feel overwhelmed by that.

[Kiddoson]

not every state has philisophical exemptions. all have religous though

[leomom]

Originally Posted by Kiddoson

not every state has philisophical exemptions. all have religous though

Yes, sorry, I didn't mean the philosophical part was easy, I meant getting any type of exemption is relatively easy.

[frontierpsych]

Originally Posted by Kiddoson

not every state has philisophical exemptions. all have religous though

Except I believe WV and MS. Last I heard they do not offer exemptions.

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by Jacque Savageau

It's interesting what puts up the red flags isn't it? For me, it was the Chicken Pox vaccine.

Me too...long before I ever considered having children (I was pretty late to the baby game) My BFF had teens when it came out and they wanted to give it to them...they had already both had CP. So on top of the vaccine itself even existing, they wanted to give it to children who had already had cp...made me go hmmmmm.

My mother was a public health nurse and was at the time in charge of well babies for our city. She got grants for vaccination programs etc...so I was coming from a very pro vax, pro medicine place. I first had to wrap my head around my mother being wrong!

Unfortunately, she passed before I decided to attempt child rearing, but part of me thinks I was waiting for her not to be around...I can't imagine what it would have been like to parent around her, let alone HB, no CIO, co-sleep, delay solids, no circ, extended BF and everything else that went against EVERYTHING she believed in. I think the vax issue would have destroyed our relationship if she were still here. (the no circ thing would have put her in the hospital with a stroke if I had had a boy!)