Workshop #4 - Baby’s Early Years; Vaccination - Page 7

[AuntArty]

Hi everyone! I'm just getting into this now, and I've already learned quite a lot from the discussion.

I'm a selective/delayed vax'er who by default is currently a non-vax'er. When I was pregnant with DS I didn't have time to research vaxes. I was busy reading up on natural birth. And since he's been born, well I'm busy trying to be his mama. At his 2 month well baby visit I told my family dr that I didn't want to do any vaxes until I'd had time to research it all. She was fine with that. My gut feeling is that we probably won't do any vaxes at all until he's nearing adolescence, if we do them. At that time we'll get his titers checked and go from there.

Something I've always found a little strange is the amount of vaxes that are done in the USA (I'm in Canada) so early. The Hep B vax is not given until 12 years old, and no vaxes are given until 2 months. Why do newborns need them? I haven't had a chance to look it up, but I'd be interested to see how the prevalence rates compare between our two countries and if vaxing so much earlier makes any difference at all.

[namaste119]

thanks, very apperciated, we will check it out!!

[janasmama]

Hello All,

I'm just now jumping in here...I hope it's not too late!

I haven't vax'ed either of my children. I really don't know a whole lot of research facts/info but vax'ing just never felt right for me.

I have to admit that I am a conspiracy theorist about the whole idea of vaccines also so I don't think that I'll even do them as my DC get older.

I'm interested to hear what everyone else is talking about so if you don't see me participating in the convo, it's b/c I'm all ears.

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by janasmama

I'm interested to hear what everyone else is talking about so if you don't see me participating in the convo, it's b/c I'm all ears.

You should really come lurk over at the Vax forum..so much great info there. Just the stickies should keep you busy for a while.

Another great link with awesome info in plain English is www.insidevaccines.com

[janasmama]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm

You should really come lurk over at the Vax forum..so much great info there. Just the stickies should keep you busy for a while.

Another great link with awesome info in plain English is www.insidevaccines.com

I have read the stickies at the vax forum....I just don't retain that type of info to be able to regurgitate it later. It has only confirmed by feelings and I'm not surprised by any of the information that would lead someone to not vax. I just don't have a big passion for educating about vaxing but I would like to develop a small one.

[jaidymama]

Ok, I'm jumping in now too. We didn't have a clue about parenting or vaxing. Became pregnant unexpectedly, and spent the whole pregnancy preparing for the birth. What came after wasn't really focused on.

Except that I worked with (who was also pregnant) told me that babies didn't need the Hepatitis B vax. So unless I've forgotten, I do remember refusing that. I remember trying to be educated about the vaccines, and ask questions. However, the answers really didn't make sense to me and of course they (doc) were glad that I asked questions... probably because I was asking the ones they could answer... the ones that their answers could persuade me to vax my child.

But to cut this short...

I will say my red flags were the Hepatitis B vax, a friend of mind received a brochure from her birthing center in Seattle. It listed the reasons why you need to get it. Even though those risks are very small for my friend and myself.

Also, my dh and I just couldn't see why chickenpox was such a big deal to get a vax for that. And of course I had no knowledge of the seriousness of the other diseases because most are so rare or eradicated.

[jaidymama]

Turning Point

The turning point for me was that each time we'd go to a well child check up I kept thinking I wanted to stop. And there hadn't been a point where it felt we could stop. Then after making friends with a group of gals who had more information than I did, I took what felt like the plunge of stopping vaxing.

I have had so many questions over these last few years, and hadn't really found any answers. Like how do you care for children who are not vaxed. You know? Like specifically I felt like perhaps I was putting my child at risk, so what happened if he got a disease? How would I care for him. All I knew was to live healthily.

Today however, all that changed. I watched a movie by Dr. Sherri Tenpenny that told me the facts I needed to know that I won't vaccinate myself or any of my children ever again. In the span of a few hours (even the first half-hour) my questions were answered.
http://www.nmaseminars.com/VaccineInfoHome.html

[jaidymama]

Suggestion

For me, I would not judge anyone's decision. Yet I strongly encourage ALL parents to do the research. For instance, find out what each disease is about, what the symptoms are, what percentage of people get each variation of the symptoms... And perhaps more importantly, what the actual death rate from the disease is and or was.

To me, there is a lot of scare mongering going around. Of course parents want their children to live and be healthy, and yet I have experienced accusations as if I were giving my child a death sentence by choosing NOT to vaccinate.

Anyways, all that to say to parents still deciding... Get information from a variety of sources. Even look at the CDC website and medical journals. For instance, the trials they did for polio were on school aged children. And my resource was unable to find any information about why/if/when it was decided to be safe for newborns.

[janasmama]

So, does anyone do anything special for their children when they don't vaccinate? For instance health supplements...like green drinks, sea kelp, etc. You may do these anyway but I want to know if they are being done specifically b/c of non-vaxing so that the immune system is 'developed'. I hope that makes sense.

[jaidymama]

the answers I had received about that seemed to be pretty simple...
Stay away from white sugar
wash hands regularly
Eat healthily
Get plenty of sleep

I know we also stay on top of colds. The moment I sense one coming on, I get out the herbal remedies and the Vit C & A.

I think washing hands alone before my kiddos eat has been one of the best things this year because we've been sick less.

[portafenster]

Great discussion

I'm brand new here, and I came to MDC specifically for support and info on these issues.
Thank you so much for all of the great info, and now, I'm getting to work on my own research!
Elaine

[lurable]

I love being on vacation because it has actually given DP and I time to do all of the research we've been meaning to do! So far DD#1 received most vax until she was 12 mos. then we stopped all together. She did not receive Chicken Pox or Flu or Hep. B. DD 2 has not had any and as of now it will remain that way. My Dr. has been great- he doesn't even mention it now

[ernalala]

We are in the minority here apparently, we've been vaxing both children, according to schedule even :-). I want to say first of all I do not have a problem with people not vaxing, everyone their choices. Maybe I should be somewhat ashamed for it but I didn't question vaxing and in my country of origin it is 'the normal thing to do' and even one vax is obliged. My parents were always very pro vaxing, my environment obviously too. In my guest country people and doctors in general are very pro vaxing too. It is a less developed country and some of the diseases have been making and some are still making victims among children. A sibling of my husband's has died as a little child from measle complications. We know people that had polio in their childhood (and are physically handicapped because of that). At least one that has hepatitis B which is also very common in this country. My husband so is pro-vax, and I've never been against it. In this country children's lives are really being saved by vaccinations. Only now I doubt if all of those are that necessary, and I question the very early vacc and the combining of so many in one. When I found more information about it via mothering it was already too late, our kids have ha most shots anyway. Of which some now I might have questioned and postponed/declined if my DH would agree. DS1 got an additional new vax in my other country, but we didn't do so for DS2.
My children have been reacting very well to all the vaccinations they got. I hope it won't cause any negative effect in their health. I was also vaccinated according to schedule even though then there were less of them and I mainly got the more 'serious' ones. As far as I know, I'm fine.
Unfortunately, pre-school here seems to be VERY panicky regarding children's diseases and stresses on vaxing. They're even panicking when a minor children's disease like chiken pox is around and most of the children are even vacced for this. Buy the way, that vacc is not even a guarantee that your child won't have them, only it may be very mild.
Just sharing my experience.

[janasmama]

ernalala - Don't be ashamed of vaxing...we all do what is right for us and according to the information that we have. It sounds like you have a much different conditions and experiences than most of us here. The important thing is to have the knowledge and make an informed decision, whether that means to vax or not to vax.

[First Time Mama]

Hi, just jumping in now. Haven't read all to the posts yet.
My DS, 10 months, has not recived any vaxs yet. I don't even have a pedetrician. So far, my feeling has been I don't want to vax before I know more, and have researched it . I'm finding that hard now, to have the time to do all the researching with a busy, active 10 month old! I did just fininsh the Cave book What your doctor may not tell you about vaccinations and thought that it was good. I researched some while pregnant as well, and was already leaning towards selective/delayed vax. Ultimately, I don't know yet weather I will delay/ selectively vaccinate or not. I feel that I don't want to vax until he is at least two or older. I don;t know why, but that's a pretty strong feeling for me. One reason actually, is because the blood brain barrier doesn't fully form until then. I have also felt that I have plenty of time to vaccinate in the future if I decide to do so, but if I vax'ed and regretted it I could never take it back. Hence, the desire to research and become fully informed. DH and I are in total agreement regarding vaxes.

[Arwyn]

There's not even any shame in not knowing to question the vaccine schedule. When you know better, you do better; whatever your ultimate answers are (fully on schedule vaccinations, selective or delayed vaccinations, or not at all), questioning is better, but it's something you have to KNOW to do. That's what Mothering's goal is; to get people aware enough of the issues around vaccinations to KNOW to question, so they can find the answers that are right for them.

[ernalala]

Originally Posted by janasmama

ernalala - Don't be ashamed of vaxing...we all do what is right for us and according to the information that we have. It sounds like you have a much different conditions and experiences than most of us here. The important thing is to have the knowledge and make an informed decision, whether that means to vax or not to vax.

Well, I didn't mean I'm ashamed for vaccinating or having been doing so, but a little bit for not having had any clue that there could be good reasons NOT to and not having had any information on it. My parents are really against not vaxing. I only heard one voice about the issue ever. Still I believe we did the right thing, especially regarding the more serious (children's) diseases.

One thing, I do believe vaccing is being promoted that much because in today's society children gather in daycare, pre-school, camps, school, etc. So more chance that contagious diseases spread and cause an epidemic. And that's just not good for economy is it? Less parents need to stay home with sick kids?, and workplace keeps on rolling smoothly? (ironically speaking)

Eg, I will never think of having any anti-flue shot for myself or my family. That is just totally ridiculous! My husband had it and some other adults I know of and most of them became ill with a bad flue because or in spite of the shot. I do not think my husband will have it again. His goals were noble though, it was offered by his workplace and he thought of me pregnant and a little one at home and not wanting to bring flue home. I've been having some flue complications like pneumonia in the years after the birth of my two children but still I am not convinced at all and I do not think a shot would have prevented it either I would just pick up on any virus, my immune system was just so out of sorts...

Personally and in our situation I might now choose for polio, tetanus, HepB and measles for our kids, possibly more spread or postponed. And maybe consider some other in the long term.
Hep A, I don't know, my mom had it when she was almost graduating from high school and ill for many many months and she had to redo her last school year for it too. This disease is also more common in my guest country.

Thus, most of above being hypothetic since we vacced our kids to schedule...

[amnesiac]

I'm always interested to hear perspectives of those living in different conditions in all parts of the world. Reminds me of how great it is to have a global community here at MDC!

I think that it doesn't occur to the vast majority of parents to question many things about our culture. How do you suppose the idea of 'informed consent' relates to such questioning?

informed consent is defined as: 1) The patient is informed about the processes contemplated by the physician as treatment, including whether the treatment is new or unusual. 2) The patient is informed of the risks and hazards of the treatment. 3) The patient is informed of the chances of recovery after treatment. 4) The patient is informed of the feasibility of alternative methods of treatment.

http://www.mothering.com/guest_edito...place/134.html

[jaidymama]

I was thinking that the other day... about trusting what we're being told. I think we are taught to trust certain things in life, and really not everyone wants to, or has the time to, or even considers questioning when we're in the hands of people we trust to care for us. You know, all of these systems have been established to protect and care for people. I believe it's natural to trust the people we hire to care for us.

I'm sort of living on the flipside, now I'm questioning everything and finding it can be hard to not let it overwhelm me as I try to make sense of what is really real. And what I can do or how it fits in my life.

[janasmama]

Originally Posted by jaidymama

You know, all of these systems have been established to protect and care for people.

Are they really in place to protect and care for us or is it a form of sick socialization?