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I kicked a dog yesterday :( - Page 2

post #21 of 89
Okay, I recently bought something called a dog dazer. They cost around $30, and are easy to take with you. Basically, you push a button, it makes a loud ultrasonic noise that we can't hear, but dogs can and they hate it. I got it for my mom's dogs. They bark like mad at everything, and when my dogs are there, they can't behave (they're great at my house). So 6 dogs all going off at once everytime mailman comes or there's a cat in the yard. After I got it, I waited for the chaos that would certainly ensue. When it did, I pushed the button for a fraction of a second. Every dog in the room immediately stopped. Only needed it for a few days.

People use them when biking or walking, to stop dogs from attacking. Seeing what it does with my dogs, I have no doubt it would stop advancing dogs.

Your dog won't it like it much, but it doesn't hurt them, just annoys the crap out of them.

Dawn
post #22 of 89
Cool, LeahBoo. How big is it?
post #23 of 89
oh mama I am so sorry that happened as pp have said don't feel guilty for protecting your children! Is your dd receptive to being tauht some self protection such as balling up her fists covering her face with her arms and the like I am sure you don't want to scare her further , maybe make it into a game.
post #24 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombatclay View Post
Thanks all. I'm still really shaken up by this.

I know about not making loud/squeeky noises around dogs (especially ones that are aggressive or posturing), but dd1 is literally terrified of dogs and although we've been working with her for a while she still reacts with scream/flight to most dogs. Paco is actually the first dog she has ever voluntarily approached and/or petted on her own initiative. Her being able to share space with a dog is soooooo brand new that this "attack" by Dog/Lady Dog is a really significant trauma for her. Like I mentioned, she is having screaming nightmares about dogs and wetting the bed (afraid to get out of bed in case Lady Dog has somehow gotten into the house). I feel horrible that I put her in a position where this happened to her.

DH is going to try walking Paco on his own past our neighbor's house tonight. He sort of hopes that Dog/Lady Dog will put on another show so he can provide an eye witness report to the neighbors. Part of the problem is that "Mr. Neighbor" is very conservative in his opinions regarding the ability of women/children to judge situations accurately. Any complaint that comes from a woman/child gets a smile, laugh, comment but no action. And if DH doesn't actually see the event happen then Mr. Neighbor discounts his report too as DH "listening a bit to much to the ladies". I know this makes them look really bad... they're not! They've been very sweet, and as I mentioned, they're sort of the dominant family here. Every conversation with other neighbors always loops back to this family at some point. And he works for the county so he has a lot of connections as well. They're very friendly.... they just have rotten dog owner habits.

Argh. I feel so horrible for further traumatizing dd1 and I just don't know what to do. Paco is such a sweetie and DD1 is really taken with him. But I can't afford the risk of having her (or him) in another tussle while I'm holding a baby! And even though I realize it may have been necessary at the moment (it was instinct DoK, you're right...the whole thing literally took seconds though it feels like it was in slow-motion), I feel really bad about kicking Lady Dog. Though the very faint silver lining there is that I most certainly impressed Paco with our family pack order... he obeys DH quickly but when I say something he practically flies.

You know, in this case, maybe the best approach would be to have DH go over with cookies or whatever and seriously talk to them, and say he truly knows this isn't just 'the little woman' exagerating or over reacting and he is scared for his children and much as he'd prefer not to make waves he's really worried about his kids and note it for the record that they talked about it.

If they are that nice, then they probably will comply if they are convinced that it really did happen and you didn't make it up. If they truly believed it happened, of course they would constrain the dogs.

If this doesn't work ASAP, go to AC and ask them for ADVICE rather than reporting them. If he is really connected with a lot of the local officials, one of them may be able to talk to him on your behalf and explain that he really does need to restrain the dogs, and the possible dangers of not doing so, like a lawsuit where they would be at fault if god forbid something happened.
post #25 of 89
Look. y'all know I love dogs, especially big strong dogs. But if I went for a walk with my children and my small dog and this happened to us, there would have been a VERY hasty case of SSS (shoot, shovel, and shut up.) Kicking would have been the very least that I would have done. Also, you should never, ever stick your delicate hands in between two fighting dogs or one dog that's attacking a person. You did the exact thing you should have done.

But...until the situation is resolved, I would reconsider walking with both your children AND your dog at the same time, or at least walk in another direction. I was overwhelmed just reading your description of how it all went down. I know it's pleasant (not to mention easier) to take everybody for a walk at the same time, but unless your DH can come too, I would try to minimize the numbers with you, kwim?
post #26 of 89
Have you called the police and animal control yet?

While you are waiting for the dogdazer to arrive, get a squirt gun and fill it with ammonia.

Carry it with you when you go for your walks, and aim right between their eyes if a dog charges at you or your child.

They will not be pleased, and it isn't hard to get like Mace can be. A bicyclist told me he does this to repel dog attacks. ( I don't want to know where he learned it)
post #27 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigeyes View Post
Have you called the police and animal control yet?

While you are waiting for the dogdazer to arrive, get a squirt gun and fill it with ammonia.

Carry it with you when you go for your walks, and aim right between their eyes if a dog charges at you or your child.

They will not be pleased, and it isn't hard to get like Mace can be. A bicyclist told me he does this to repel dog attacks. ( I don't want to know where he learned it)
I used to do this when riding my mare, only I used a super soaker with a rifle sling

It was as much for the dogs' protection as mine...my mare was a confirmed dog killer when she got the chance.
post #28 of 89
I have to agree with what everyone else is posting. There is no way you should be feeling bad about kicking the dog. I shudder to think of what could have happened next if your instincts hadn't brought out your mother bear.

I just want to underline the point that while the dog did not seriously hurt your child, she DID attack your child. Not "attack" but really and truly did attack your child. She saw her as prey and took her down, and had her in a position where she easily could have gotten to her throat had you not stepped in. This must not be taken lightly.

You sound like maybe you are too nice for your own good - making allowances for your neighbors bad behavior because of your past interactions with them and their status in the area. Nothing excuses them allowing such aggressive behavior from their animals, and they need to face the consequences.

Please, if you cannot do it for yourself, do it for your daughter, and report this incident to the police. Please think of the next mom who may be walking with her children through the neighborhood. Could you ever forgive yourself if a child got seriously hurt because these dogs were allowed to continue terrorizing the neighborhood?

I cannot stress enough that this dog could have killed your child! I'm thanking the Lord that the incident didn't escalate out of control. You're a nicer person than I am to have only kicked the miserable thing once, and then feel bad about doing even that! Wow... I'm a total animal lover, been vegetarian for nearly half my life, devoted pet owner and advocate for animal welfare and rights, but I don't think that dog would be alive had that been my child.

I plead with you again to take this to the authorities. The owners will likely receive a warning and instruction to keep the animals contained in compliance with your city's laws. If there are further incidents, this one will be on record so they can take the next step in getting these animals under control. No excuse.
post #29 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salvia View Post
Cool, LeahBoo. How big is it?

Bigger than a cell phone, not much though. Has a clip so you can clip it to your belt or something.
post #30 of 89
I'm sorry, I cannot believe that you feel badly for kicking the dog. The dogs have been failed by their owners: YES. But regardless, your job is to protect your child. I'd commit such violence to that animal that it would THINK before attacking another child. Thank goodness you and your daughter are ok. I HATE IT that people get away with letting their dogs run loose.
post #31 of 89
I haven't read all of the replies because I'm too mad.

Firstly, I would not be feeling bad about kicking that dog! A bite on the shirt is a bite. What would have happened if she wasn't wearing a shirt? What if that dog had bitten while your daughter was on the ground? That dog attacked your child. I wouldn't have stopped at one kick.

I used to have a neighbor with an aggressive, roaming border collie. I spoke with the owner repeatedly, he discounted everything that I said. Finally, one day we were walking past the house, the dog ran out, the owner came out to where we were standing, the dog took this as encouragement and bit my daughter's ankle. I was yelling at my (teenaged) daughter to kick the dog, kick the dog, kick her hard she's biting you, then I walked over (carrying my 4 year old son) and kicked her myself. The owner was shocked, but he was just standing there watching his dog bite my daughter. She was wearing leather boots, the dog couldn't have injured her but I do not care.

Then the owner went and got his dog- to protect her from me

He continued to say how harmless his dog was

So after that, I always brought my (extremely protective, 85 lb muscular and lean) dog along on our walks. The first time that dog ran out and acted aggressively, my dog (who was leashed and under my vocal control) made it clear who was in charge of the situation and the owner never let that dog out unattended again

Secondly, I don't care how sweet and polite these people are. Their loose dogs attacked your child. I would have been on the phone with Animal Control and police immediately. I live rurally also, but I don't care about alienating someone who is endangering my children or making it dangerous for my family to take a walk down the road. I just don't care. Alienation vs real endangerment? Easy choice.

I just read the rest of the replies- COOKIES???? Are you KIDDING ME???? These people would be lucky to get a smile from me. Leaving their dogs alive is reward enough.

And they won't believe you because you're just a woman???? What if your daughter was dead right now, or in the ER and surgery? I don't care how sexist they are I would not be pussyfooting around because of that stupidity. This is serious. This is not like my landlord's 15 lb mutt charging my son (and said dog is going to disappear just as soon as we can catch the bastard), these dogs are big enough to do real damage very quickly- and there are two of them.
post #32 of 89
Thread Starter 
Thanks all! I really wasn't expecting this much support and it makes me feel a bit like Xena or something.

Just to clarify a little... I do feel bad about kicking Lady Dog. Not so much bad about kicking her right then and protecting my dd1, but bad that I let that situation develop, bad that I put my very emotionally fragile (in terms of dog interaction) dd1 in that situation, bad that I wasn't able to better negotiate the situation once it occured. I don't regret protecting my dd1, and I really really REALLY do realize what could have happened. I think it was a few hours before I stopped shaking myself. I'm really not that "nice" (though I wish I was)... I'm just wishing I had somehow handled all this better. And lost as to how I "should" have handled it to prevent the escalation. And I stopped at one kick because there was just too much going on... two angry dogs, one scared dog, one terrified toddler, and one screaming baby. I just wanted to get everyone safely into the house so I could see what damage (if any) had been done. If I'd been alone (or at least didn't have Ro in the ergo) it would have been different.

Lady Dog tried another dominance display today... any idea why the "number two dog" is the one who is pushing this? (Paco was inside, Lady Dog came barreling out of her drive, I was able to verbally control her this time and she ran back the way she came). I spoke to Mrs. Neighbor and I did notice that although I could hear Dog/Lady Dog later in the day I didn't see them so I'm thinking they were penned. DH took Paco past their home a few times and there was nothing. For now I'm walking Paco in the yard during the day and DH will do the longer walk in the evening... dd2 is too young to be left alone even in sight so I sort of have to have her in the ergo. DD1 is happy to play in the drive or in the fenced garden while I walk him up and down the drive.

We really are rural... the "street" is lightly paved, but just a few houses away it turns into an unpaved seasonal access only road, and the stretch in front of our house is actually part of a trail system so we get hikers going past every day or two. Other than the hikers I've never seen anyone walking on this road, so I don't know if anyone else has reported Dog and Lady Dog. If Lady Dog continues her challenges and/or I see Dog or Lady Dog running loose again I'm going to raise a major stink. There are leash laws and I know at least one other person on the road has worried about these two dogs (though more in terms of them getting hit by a truck or shot by a hunter). With his connections there wont be any "anonymity" but at that point I'm not sure it will matter.

I'm not worried about "social standing", more about...well... I already feel pretty isolated out here, and these are sort of the only people I see IRL. I'm the only SAH on the road, there is nothing within walking distance (town is about 20 minutes by car), I don't have a car during the day so mdc is my only "adult" contact during the day (dh leaves around 7am, gets home around 7pm). Walking is a big part of what we can do here so the fact that DD1 isn't willing to leave the yard right now is a big deal. Today was tough, but better than yesterday, so here's hoping tomorrow is better too.

Thanks again for the support, and the space to process this!
post #33 of 89
I'm just as rural as you are. I wouldn't be on speaking terms with people like that anyway. I don't talk to any of my neighbors, I don't even know their names.

I thought the guy who told me to shoot his dog if I didn't like her barking 24/7 (and offered to loan me his gun to do so when I said that I don't have one) was bad. Your neighbors take the cake. I'd be carrying a stout pipe and just hoping that those dogs came at me again.

They have proven themselves to be dangerous and aggressive toward your daughter. I've had a dog who I know would bite, and I was very, very careful about him- even though he had never actually tried to bite anyone. I would never, ever have allowed him to be outside unattended. Your neighbors should not own dogs.
post #34 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mesa View Post
I used to do this when riding my mare, only I used a super soaker with a rifle sling

It was as much for the dogs' protection as mine...my mare was a confirmed dog killer when she got the chance.
LOL - we did this when I got followed down the road by a rank stallion while riding my mare. Well, actually, we planned it, but when the owners heard we were gonna hose him with ammonia, they suddenly started penning their stud instead of letting him wander free. BTW, I ALWAYS carry a whip when riding down the road for this exact reason.

The dog bit your child, regardless of whether she tore flesh or not. I'd walk softly and carry a big stick, to borrow a phrase. A dog that attacks, then follows when it's been "beaten" in a display of dominance is planning, not being contrite. She's waiting for you to be inattentive so she can try again. Dogs are animals, not people, and you cannot reason with them. Kicking her established your place in the pack, but not your daughter's or the dog's.
post #35 of 89
Oh Clay! yucks! I'm so sorry this happened, but please don't feel bad about kicking the damn dog! You have every right to do whatever must be done to protect your child. I'd have done the same thing. My hubby would not have kicked it once.
Your thread has me thinking.... last week I took Chloe for a walk (our 7 year old golden retriever). I went up the road like we have a million times and this huge white dog came walking down the road snarling and growling at us. Chloe is a HUGE chicken so she was cowering behind me. I was yelling in a really demanding voice "Go home, be quiet, stop" but he ignored me as if he was deaf. He was walking slowly so we crossed the road and sped up but he followed us. I have no idea what I would have done if he would have attacked. I'm pregnant, my belly is huge and I was wearing flip flops, none of these are conducive to good kicks.
The suggestions you've gotten sound good to me too.
post #36 of 89
I live rurally too, in an older, very small subdivision. I tolerated my neighbors roaming dog until it came barreling down on my daughter IN MY YARD, and then I went inside and called AC. All I had to do was provide a picture of the dog running unleashed off of their property (they're allowed unleashed on your own property here) and they got a heavy fine, as they'd had complaints and warnings regarding the dog before. They were pissed about it for a couple years and now they're over it and we're polite with each other.

You did the right thing, and personally, I wouldn't wait for something to happen again, I'd call AC now.
post #37 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kleine Hexe View Post
You do everything in your power to protect your child. If that means kicking a dog....if that means killing a dog, I would never ever hesitate. Child trumps dog at all costs.

Tell the neighbors the dog actually attacked your child and they need to keep their dog(s) under control. If not you will contact the authorities. No ifs, ands, or buts. The safety of children is the utmost importance.

For the record my DH is the type of person to shoot a dog if it ever attacked his child. So I'd have to call animal control fast...like before DH came home. There would be no talking to the neighbors for him.
Exactly that. Hell the big boxer type dog behind our house menaces at my children THRU their fence (it's not nearly high enough to keep him in if he wants over it) and we called animal control about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mesa View Post
Look. y'all know I love dogs, especially big strong dogs. But if I went for a walk with my children and my small dog and this happened to us, there would have been a VERY hasty case of SSS (shoot, shovel, and shut up.) Kicking would have been the very least that I would have done. Also, you should never, ever stick your delicate hands in between two fighting dogs or one dog that's attacking a person. You did the exact thing you should have done.
I must say I like your style.. SSS indeed.

Clay you should absolutely NOT feel bad about what you did! When my oldest (now 19) was about .. 8 maybe, a lab that was uncontrolled bounded across the cul de sac and chomped him on the arse. I punched that dog upside the head so hard I knocked it down (i was just a few feet behind ds). YOU did not put your child in a bad situation..your neighbors who are very irresponsible pet owners, DID. And if that neighbor acted like I was a silly woman over reacting.. well he'd find out what over reacting was because next time I'd take mesa's suggestion and direct him to his dogs grave to visit. Don't mess with the mama bear instinct.

And DEFINITELY call animal control right now if you have not already. This incident needs to be documented so that if there are future incidents the owners can't say 'oh there's never ever been a problem before' .. and the owners need to be cited to keep their animals controlled on their own property, period. I grew up in the country and even though ppl do let their animals run it's not acceptable at all.
post #38 of 89
It's funny what you can do when you're scared/angry.

I had 2 chows that combined outweighed me at about 130ish lbs between them way back when. When my female had a bunch of health problems, she became literally crazed and would attack my male, and would not stop until I either pulled them apart, or he pinned her and held her down if I wasn't fast enough.

I spent thousands at the vet, and she had an infection that made her pee red for over 2 months, antibiotics didn't clear it up, they kept finding more and more things wrong...it got so bad I was afraid to leave my place because I would come home and find it wrecked, and I finally just had to put her down. She faced off with me one day and growled at me, and I decided I'd done all I could do. I have no doubt if she had gotten loose she would have hurt someone.

Shortly after I did this, I moved, and a neighbor had a young male chow who literally knocked out their window to come after my male, who was about 17 or 18 years old at the time. My guy was nearly completely deaf and didn't see or hear it coming, and I had to pull/drag this dog off mine while the owner's wife stood there screaming. He was so intent on attacking my dog, I don't think he even snapped at me.

I was completely irate after putting down my dangerous dog and told her I would be walking my dog with a gun from then on (This was Dallas, carry permits ) and to let her DH know.

They moved that week.

I didn't really have a carry permit. : (but I can dial 911 real fast, and I did really have a gun and a ball bat, plus I knew a civil rights attorney who probably would have loved to argue the case if I'd had to shoot his dog in front of my apartment )

SSS works even if the other guy thinks you're crazy enough not to shovel.
post #39 of 89
Not too late - call the police AND animal control right now! You should go on record with the dog attack, whether anything happens as a consequence this time or not.

I wouldn't put an ounce of worry into whether or not a SEXIST neighbor liked me. Let him think whatever he wants. Not someone you want as your buddy.

I wouldn't leave the front porch without a super soaker of ammonia from now on. Or a baseball bat. Honestly, I wouldn't trust that dog not to do it again, and the owners clearly won't keep you safe.

NO guilt on kicking the dog. As other posters have said, my dp would have gone home for a gun and the dog would have attacked for her last time. Which is the same end result as will likely happen through animal control eventually. Your child won't be the last to be attacked by a dog like that.

Interesting that it was the female dog. My dp has always insisted on female pets, on his theory that they are better with kids and generally nicer. The no kill animal shelter where we've adopted our cats from denies this though. They say that male pets are generally better in regards to behavior/aggression.

I'm sorry you are dealing with this situation with Lady Dog. I really would call the authorities today. And NO cookies for the jerky neighbor! If you think it would help, dp could go over to have a "man to man" chat with him - just so he knows you aren't kidding around about his dog attacking your kid.
post #40 of 89
IMO, the best course of action would be for you to go visit without any kids (to them, that's an indication of seriousness,) or to send your husband to talk to them. Keep the cookies for yourself, but by all means, take some spare zucchini


I'm guessing they have boxers b/c they like the tough dog image. As reasonably educated and rational folks (just what I've deduced by their social status,) I'm sure they understand on some level that the tough dog image comes with some real life responsibilities and repercussions.

I'm also fairly certain they would like to avoid animal control, if not for the sake of their dogs, then for fear of the spectacle.

The good 'ol boy thing is hard to navigate, no doubt.
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