Re-Directing Stimming

[chowmein]

Hey everyone, my son was just diagnosed with PDD-NOS. One of the things is hand-flapping while running back and forth or hand-flapping while sitting down. These stims only happen when he's excited. Well, the doctor told us we could re-direct his hand-flapping. Can someone give me some examples on how to re-direct his stims. Ed,

[feebeeglee]

My son stims in a flappy way (he flicks his fingers in front of his eyes, rocks and hums, or runs and warbles) when he's happy and excited.

I've only tried to redirect stims that hurt my son or other people. I'm not sure why you'd want to redirect something like flapping?

Talking to adult autistics who still flap to stim has taught me that they felt terrible when they were told not to flap, even when they were told gently. It's like telling a child who sings off-key to stop singing. Even if you did it nicely it hurts her feelings and makes her think she's less than in your eyes, and every time she sings she'll think "Mommy thinks I sound bad when I sing." No joy left.

[chowmein]

Originally Posted by feebeeglee

My son stims in a flappy way (he flicks his fingers in front of his eyes, rocks and hums, or runs and warbles) when he's happy and excited.

I've only tried to redirect stims that hurt my son or other people. I'm not sure why you'd want to redirect something like flapping?

Talking to adult autistics who still flap to stim has taught me that they felt terrible when they were told not to flap, even when they were told gently. It's like telling a child who sings off-key to stop singing. Even if you did it nicely it hurts her feelings and makes her think she's less than in your eyes, and every time she sings she'll think "Mommy thinks I sound bad when I sing." No joy left.

Re-directing is what our Developmental Physician recommended eventhough his stimming doesn't hurt himself or anyone else.

[Kitsune6]

Originally Posted by chowmein

Re-directing is what our Developmental Physician recommended eventhough his stimming doesn't hurt himself or anyone else.

Personally I wouldn't bother. He's only doing it to show how happy he is. The stimming isn't hurting and is actually helping him IMO. I'd pick a different battle.

A really good book you might want to pick up is Engaging Autism by Stanley Greenspan.

[MyTwoAs]

Ugh I lost my post - I had some links for you and mentioned that I agreed with Fee.

http://www.autism-world.com/index.ph...-and-stimming/
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...=redirect+stim
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...=redirect+stim

[Momily]

I'm not a SN parent, but as a special ed teacher I'd say that you can redirect a child without telling them what not to do. The preschool classrooms I work with are set up on the assumption that in a well prepared environment, children will choose and carry out the activities they need to further their own development. However, sometimes kids on the spectrum need more support to do so, which is why I'm there.

I do redirect stimming if I think it's keeping a child from engaging in skill development (in the classroom -- I'm not one of those who thinks that every minute of a child's life needs to be about skill development) or if I think it's dangerous, or if I think it's innappropriate to the situation. If I'm going to do so, then the first question I'll ask myself is "what need is the stimming playing for that child at this time?" and then I'll let the answer guide the way I intervene.

So, for example if it's reading time and 7 year old A isn't reading because he's repeatedly lifting his body out of his chair with his arms like a gymnast, I might conclude that he needs proprioceptive input right now to organize himself, and invite him to go for a wheelbarrow walk in the hallway or get squished with a beanbag for a few minutes before he tries again.

If 3 year old C is humming and flapping her hands in front of her eyes at circle time because it's loud and overwhelming and she's trying to cut down on the stimuli I might see if she'd rather listen to circle while we work quietly with clay a few tables away.

If 5 year old J is sitting in the sandbox letting the sand dribble through his fingers over and over again, and has been doing that every outside time for a month, I might conclude that 1) he enjoys either the visual or tactile stimulation and 2) maybe his motor planning is preventing him from getting that stimulation in a more playful, less repetitive way. So I might invite him to help me "fix" the wheels on the scooters with a group of friends and some childsized tools -- so that he can stim a little on the spinning wheels, while still having a social experience, or I might put the hose in the sandbox and show him how to use his fingers to dig a path for the water (delightfully tactile) and then float leaf boats down his "river" (lovely visual stim).

For that matter, all children stim, not just kids on the spectrum, so I apply the same thinking to my own NT child. Let's say he's 4 and I take him to the theater, and he's running up and down the hallway while waiting for the show. Now, I don't object to running, but it's got his place and a crowded environment where I might lose him isn't that place. So I decide -- is he bored? If so I might swing him up on my shoulders and point out the colors in the flags decorating the hallway. Is he needing sensory input -- I might have him do some flips where I hold his hands, have him walk his feed up my body and land on the floor, or slip him a piece of chewing gum.

So, I have to disagree that redirecting stimming is always disrespectful. If your child's running up and down flapping and you say "stop that, don't do that, you're a bad boy" yes, that's not appropriate. But if he's running up and down flapping and you say "Hey Johnny, want to make some bubbles?" and fill up the sink with some water and detergent and hand him an egg beater so he can engage in some great sensory play, and he ends up with an even bigger smile on his face -- then I don't see that as harmful to his self esteem. Similarly, I would never tell my DS (who is 9, not 4, 4 is just an example) that he sounds bad when he sings, but if he's been singing in the backseat of the car for an hour and we're 4 hours from Grandma's I've been known to say "Hey, who wants to listen to Harry Potter on CD".

[RoadWorkAhead]

Originally Posted by chowmein

Re-directing is what our Developmental Physician recommended eventhough his stimming doesn't hurt himself or anyone else.

Thats kinda like the Dr. telling you to dye your child's hair blond because the rest of the family is. It doesn't make sense, even if he's got some fancy title. I stim constantly, but for me, its hair twirling and a few others. I've yet to pay attention to a specific stim for DS, but I know they're there....

I've found a big part of what Drs. say regarding sensory/PDD/ASD stuff is to make US comforatble, its not about our children. The reality is though that this is all about our children. Have a I seen a child stimming and known he was like my own DS? Sure. And I totally respected his parents for not shaming it/being embarassed, ertc....He was really happy at the moment and expressing it the same as you or I or anyone laughing or smiling. Re-directing non harmful stimming is like telling a child "Fit in this box" - Its of no benefit to the child, it just teaches them to not respect themselves as individuals and be more concerned with group think. It takes a while for each of us to begin realizing that these behaviors are just a normal part of each individual child. I won't take away DD's backpack (contains food/feeding pump) just because it would make me have less stares/questions/make her life "easier" and no one would expect it as its maintaining her life....BUt stimming is a very vital part of a PDD kids life, and taking away their ability to express emotion to me would be just as wrong as taking away DD's sustenance...Sure she'd eat just enough to survive, but it would stop her from really thriving. Just MO though.

[Kitsune6]

Originally Posted by Momily

So, I have to disagree that redirecting stimming is always disrespectful. If your child's running up and down flapping and you say "stop that, don't do that, you're a bad boy" yes, that's not appropriate. But if he's running up and down flapping and you say "Hey Johnny, want to make some bubbles?" and fill up the sink with some water and detergent and hand him an egg beater so he can engage in some great sensory play, and he ends up with an even bigger smile on his face -- then I don't see that as harmful to his self esteem. Similarly, I would never tell my DS (who is 9, not 4, 4 is just an example) that he sounds bad when he sings, but if he's been singing in the backseat of the car for an hour and we're 4 hours from Grandma's I've been known to say "Hey, who wants to listen to Harry Potter on CD".

Not to be snarky but I don't think any of us said that redirecting was disrespectful. She said he was only flapping when he was excited which to me isn't that big of a deal.

You gave her some really good advice on redirecting which is what she was looking for.

[Ok]

Stims are not bad. They just "are." In many senses you can even say they are great. They provide an outlet.

Our first ped recommended we stop bf at 12mo. Thats when she liked the bottle fed kids to move to cups, so to her it was logical for bf switching too. We said "ok" and continued doing what we do. At that level it wasn't medical advice she was giving.

Re-directing stims b/c a Dev Ped thinks it is a good idea doesn't mean you have to do it. Why does the dr want the stims to be re-directed? Are you just re-directing to a different stim-- or trying to suppress it? Hand flapping is a pretty reasonable stim. NT kids hand flap too sometimes.

My child has stim'd in a few different ways over the years. We don't stop him.

[Momily]

Originally Posted by Kitsune6

Not to be snarky but I don't think any of us said that redirecting was disrespectful. She said he was only flapping when he was excited which to me isn't that big of a deal.

You gave her some really good advice on redirecting which is what she was looking for.

You're right, I was putting words in people's mouth, I was thinking of feebee's comment that autistic adults often say that being asked to stop stimming felt awful.

As to whether the flapping is a big deal, I guess it depends on how often they're excited. I've got kids who flap and jump when I bring something new into the classroom, and then they calm down and dive in (might be in 5 minutes, might be the 3rd time I bring it in but I know they'll do it in the long run so I just wait) -- so what, in fact it kind of tickles me to see that they're happy about the newness. I've also got kids who flap and jump when I bring something new, and then the next time I bring it in they flap and jump again because they didn't really see it the first time ('cause their hands were in front of their eyes flapping) so it's STILL new), and who would continue to flap and jump indefinitely. In that case I might wait to bring it in until after something intensively sensory, or I might gather them up (if they like being gathered up) and give them some lotion (if they like lotion) to rub in their hands while they watch the other kids with the new thing.

[Finch]

I would like to point out that both Dr. Temple Grandin and Dr. Judith Bluestone say that stimming releases endorphins and is actually a calming, self-regulating activity, and that stopping stims can actually be painful for autistic people.

Everybody stims, the only difference with autistic stims is that they are not "socially accepted" norms. Stimming is a way of "zoning out." What do YOU do to "zone out" when you are stressed? Think about if you'd had a particularly hard day and wanted to just zone and try to let your mind and body recover from the insult of the events of the day, but somebody kept telling you to stop and trying to make you stop. That is the best analogy I can come up with to help you understand.

We do not stop stimming in our house unless they interfere with eating, sleep, learning (at school) or are disturbing someone else's ability to sleep/function/learn.

Hand flapping is very benign. I would personally just leave it alone.

I disagree wholeheartedly with your doctor, and if that were my doctor I'd find a new one.

[Finch]

Originally Posted by Momily

I've also got kids who flap and jump when I bring something new, and then the next time I bring it in they flap and jump again because they didn't really see it the first time ('cause their hands were in front of their eyes flapping) so it's STILL new), and who would continue to flap and jump indefinitely. In that case I might wait to bring it in until after something intensively sensory, or I might gather them up (if they like being gathered up) and give them some lotion (if they like lotion) to rub in their hands while they watch the other kids with the new thing.

This is a good example of when redirection is appropriate, because it may be disruptive to the classroom and interfere with the other students' ability to learn and the teacher's ability to keep the classroom calm.

If it interferes with something important, i.e., vital to life/health, then yes, redirection is appropriate. Otherwise, I'm of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" opinion.

[Momily]

Originally Posted by Finch

This is a good example of when redirection is appropriate, because it may be disruptive to the classroom and interfere with the other students' ability to learn and the teacher's ability to keep the classroom calm.

Funny, I don't usually think of that as a good reason to redirect stimming. If you have a culture in the classroom (at least in the early grades I don't teach past about 3rd) of acceptance the other kids are usually very able to tune out or ignore repetitive stims -- they become like background noise. And if an adult doesn't model acceptance they'll usually challenge that adult (e.g. sub tells child to stop wandering and sit down, and the other kids say "but he likes to wander, he listens better that way" or something equally appropriate).

My old school had a weekly assembly type thing where we'd all sit on the floor and sing songs. Or at least most of us would sit. One little guy would wander the room, flapping and toe walking. He seemed happy and we didn't really think he was ready to participate so we just let him do it. He'd walk right in front of the director who was putting on a puppet show, or weave in and out among the kids and other than smiling and saying "Hi Billy" the other kids never seemed to notice. After a few months he began to drop into the teacher's laps for a few minutes and then get up and wander. We also discovered that if we brought the school dog in he'd be happy to sit and run through her hair, and that as well as keeping him sitting it seemed to help him attend because he suddenly began to sing the songs to his mom at home.

Anyway, when I wrote the example you quoted, I was thinking that I'd redirect the stimming because I expected that the child would actually like the new thing, and I wanted him to get over the initial reaction so he could decide if it was something he'd like to try.

[Individuation]

Can I just say that this thread made my day?
:

It was so nice to read calm, reasoned responses like this.

[Finch]

Originally Posted by Momily

Funny, I don't usually think of that as a good reason to redirect stimming. If you have a culture in the classroom (at least in the early grades I don't teach past about 3rd) of acceptance the other kids are usually very able to tune out or ignore repetitive stims -- they become like background noise. And if an adult doesn't model acceptance they'll usually challenge that adult (e.g. sub tells child to stop wandering and sit down, and the other kids say "but he likes to wander, he listens better that way" or something equally appropriate).

My old school had a weekly assembly type thing where we'd all sit on the floor and sing songs. Or at least most of us would sit. One little guy would wander the room, flapping and toe walking. He seemed happy and we didn't really think he was ready to participate so we just let him do it. He'd walk right in front of the director who was putting on a puppet show, or weave in and out among the kids and other than smiling and saying "Hi Billy" the other kids never seemed to notice. After a few months he began to drop into the teacher's laps for a few minutes and then get up and wander. We also discovered that if we brought the school dog in he'd be happy to sit and run through her hair, and that as well as keeping him sitting it seemed to help him attend because he suddenly began to sing the songs to his mom at home.

Anyway, when I wrote the example you quoted, I was thinking that I'd redirect the stimming because I expected that the child would actually like the new thing, and I wanted him to get over the initial reaction so he could decide if it was something he'd like to try.

I'm still not feeling you. I don't get it.

Culture of acceptance is great. If you support that, then why are you supporting stim-breaking? Why not accept that the child might be enjoying the new thing in his/her own way instead of trying to make the child "get over it" and enjoy it your way?

Do you see what I'm saying?

[bdavis337]

The OP asked HOW he and his wife could redirect his son's stims. Assuming hand flapping isn't the only stim he's talking about, maybe we could give some gentle, positive suggestions. Perhaps some of the stims he'd like to redirect are harmful or interfere with their family life in some fashion, and they'd like some direction. Or perhaps they're looking for ways to engage their child in floortime activities, or even just PLAY in general, and they're not sure how to get past the stims to engagement. Or maybe I'm reading way too much into this and am totally ahead of myself.

We/I don't re-direct Mark's happy stims unless they've gone on so long that he's getting worked up past the point of self control. In that case, we help him find a new fun activity. For instance, he got so wound and flappy about the dog at our last family gathering that he couldn't calm himself. He was whiny, flapping faster than I've ever seen before, and it served to only get him more and more angry, unhappy and out of sorts. So redirection was necessary. True that the stim itself wasn't the problem, but as they were all wrapped up in one big package, it was part of the issue. So we removed him from the situation totally, took him inside for a change of clothes, something to eat, 15 minutes of trains on tv to calm down.

What if the stim is lip picking, or nail biting, or something else that's physically harmful? What do parents of children with these types of stims do to help gently redirect?

And finally, sometimes Mark does get so completely wound up and caught up in his excitement stimming that he can't actually participate or enjoy the very item or activity that he's excited and stimming about. And when that happens, I WILL help him redirect, just like I'd help redirect any of my kids in a manner that helps them enjoy something fun.

[Kristine233]

It depends on teh stim.

For things like hand flapping, finger rolling etc... we don't redirect because we don't see a need to.

Most of our son's stims are verbal stims though. Most we leave alone but some we have t redirect because they disrupt the classroom. The main reason he is in a special ed classroom (the initial reason anyways) was because of his verbal stimming. The teacher couldn't teach over it and the other students couldn't concentrate. And because you can only redirect so much of it we felt it was better if he were in an environment where he can be himself without overly re-directing his stims. Its also better education wise because he has different needs than the other kids.

We do allow some redirecting, though, when its disrupting his small class beyond what is necessary. He chews gum and also has a MP3 player he can use at school. We encourage his teachers to find out why he is "overly-stimming" (as we all believe some stimming is just fine) and usually its sensory related and its how he deals with it. So we use the stim as a sign that we need to evaluate his environment and adjust something. They have a sensory corner set up in his classroom to help him in these situations.

[chowmein]

Thanks to everyone for their advice. I didn't mean to have people debate. I know that everyone means well, but like every thing about autism, people have their own opinions, like diet, supplements and therapy. The purpose of my post was to get some advice on how to re-direct my son's stimming in a positive manner not whether people think it's right or wrong. I know people who are against re-directing stims mean well but maybe your answers are better suited for a different topic. Ed.

[wytchywoman]

Well I think Momily gave some pretty good advice as to how to deal with stims in a positive manner. I do think though that a lot of people weighed in one this because soooooooooooooooooo many of us have gotten really bad advice from doctors. You said that your son was just diagnosed and most of us remember what it was like to be newly on the road of an ASC and wondering what to do with all the info dr's had given us. I hope that you take from this thread the knowledge that not all advice from a doctor is valid or good, and likewise not all of it is horrible either. But it really is important to assess what is going on with your son and use your own parenting instincts to help your son grow and thrive, and not just learn to "act like a normal person". Good luck.

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by chowmein

Well, the doctor told us we could re-direct his hand-flapping. Can someone give me some examples on how to re-direct his stims. Ed,

Did the doctor tell you that you COULD or that you SHOULD? there's a big difference. I know that you didn't want people to tell you why you shouldn't necessarily redirect it, but you should think long and hard about when/why you want to do it.

Momily gave a lot of great examples of ways to redirect - essentially engaging the child in something else. It helps if you engage the child in something that's related AND it has the same kind of sensory input that he's getting from the original. That holds for any child - on the spectrum or not.

So, if he's hand-flapping in front of his eyes, is it to control the visual stimulation? how can you help him do that? If it's just for movement, can you get him something to hold/do with his hands that will give him the same kind of sensation?

Remember too that stims help a child organize the input, so you can't just take them away. You've got to give him something functional/organizing to help. A good OT might be able to help you more than we can.