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Virtues Parenting - Page 6

post #101 of 186
Thread Starter 
Hi everyone! Sorry I have been off the map for a bit! Have I already shared my weekly schedule?? (Full-time student, part-time home-blesser/house-cleaner, meditation guide/facillitator, Baha'i School teaching assistant, volunteer for American Cancer Society and Prenna's school... Whoo!) SO in between all of those things I have been lurking and just trying to find time to post. (I am supposed to be studying for a Statisitics exam...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janelovesmax View Post
Can you tell me if this is a good book to start?

http://www.amazon.com/BOOK-VIRTUES-W...3055605&sr=8-1
I looked it over, and it looks GOOD! I might have to buy that one myself!

There is no hard and fast 'best' place to start... I feel strongly that any source of guidence in living and parenting with Virtues at the heart of one's efforts is a good source to look into.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
<snip> my oldest DD called 911 this morning while I was sleeping. She says she thought it was her Grammy's number even though she told me that 911 is just for emergencies. How would you handle this with the virtues?
What did she say about that, about knowing that the number is for emergencies?, and calling it for "Grammy's" How old is she? Could she have been experimenting? What were the consequences... meaning, did the police come, etc?

One Virtue that I like and encourage/advise parents of older (than mine) children to explore is Consultation. When one is unsure of something, one uses the Virtue of Consultation to process the choices and make an "informed decision." Perhaps, in the future, when she's wanting to dial Grammy, she might Consult with you "to ensure she is dialing the correct number, because we wouldn't want to have the police or an ambulence show up... they're very busy, and if they're at our house, they may be missing out on helping someone in real danger... That's thinking ahead."

Also, allgirls, there is a children's book of Virtues by the same author of the above book... Check it out: Children's Treasury of Virtues...
post #102 of 186
Thread Starter 
Some more books for children...

A Treasury of Virtues

The Goops Books are hilarious and old-school... very tongue in cheek:
Quote:
The Goops they lick their fingers,
and the Goops they lick their knives;
They spill their broth on the tablecloth,
Oh, they lead disgusting lives!
Goops and How to be Them: A Manual of Manners for Polite Infants Inculcating Many Juvenile Virtues Both by Precept and Example, With 90 Drawings

A Child's First Steps to Virtues


Puppy Makes Friends <- There're a few in this series.

And my fave is Hang on Hester By Wende and Harry Devlin.
post #103 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrennaMama View Post
What did she say about that, about knowing that the number is for emergencies?, and calling it for "Grammy's" How old is she? Could she have been experimenting? What were the consequences... meaning, did the police come, etc?
She is 5 next Friday and when I asked her if she called she said no because we only call when their is an emergency and then she gave the example of how I called 911 when Mable was choking on a pretzel.

So that is where I am torn- she knew better but did it anyway? And then she lied to me about not calling.

What I did do was reinforce that we only call 911 in case of emergencies. I also thanked her for coming to me and telling the truth and said that we should always tell the truth in the first place. Obviously truthfulness could be used here but with what language, if I am making sense...

Thanks!
post #104 of 186

PK Hallinan

Has a series of childrens books, for I'd say age 6 and under, stuff like, lets be honest, lets be thankful.....I have a bunch, they are board books, so good for littles too! We just LOVE them!
post #105 of 186
Thread Starter 
So, moderation went so-so for us. I'm thinking we'll just keep at it with that one in our house.

How are you all doing these days?

I was wondering if anyone would consider doing a Virtue of the Week here, and following along with the website?

We are still trucking along with Virtues around here, and boy have we been tested lately.



Has anyone ever noticed this phenomenon... Whenever I feel that I am making a leap in understanding and enlightenment, or feeling like things have stabalized, hit equilibrium, etc, the Divine Universe likes to give me a pop-quiz... a little test (or a big one) to see if my new-found skill-set will hold up under pressure. In the past week I have had 3 exams, (real ones), I have 3 papers due (and here I am with you instead of doing them!), I crashed our car (not too bad and no one was hurt), killed the battery in the OTHER car, have had friends from Hawaii visiting, made a trip to the coast for the day with them, am planning dd's bday, and an array of other details that are on a spectrum from cruddy to totally crappy, all with dd right under my nose and not further than a foot or so away at all times... ad nauseum. I have broken down crying in class (the only place away from dd), gotten a little punchy with food servers and the gas-station attendant, as well as dh, and occassionally dd. Not actually punching in my punchiness, yet... But whew. My own Virtues have been tested. Big time.

Dd has been such an inspiration to me these past few days. Reminding me (when I crashed) to use carefulness and caution. Admonishing me gently to be gentle and patient with others, even saying when I'm barking and griping aloud to folks who can't hear me "Mama, maybe if you are kinder and more patient, they will have a better day and move faster, or be more helpful..."

There is a cd she got a littlemore than a year ago and would not listen to it to save her life! I loved it. Red Grammer's BeBop Your Best. This one was Grammy nominated... he is just so great. His music centers on oneness, unity, character, conflict resolution. I can't believe I forgot to recommend him to you! (Of course I didn't think of it; dd never liked to listen to it so it was shelved and forgotten for about a year).......

Until, this morning, when out of nowhere, dd asks "Don't I have a cd about respect and trusting, mama?" I said, "Actually, yes, you do... BeBop Your Best..." "OH! OH! Can we listen to it now?" She asks excitedly. I put it on and she got her groove on and sang to all the songs... it was awesome. Then she says, "Thanks mama, I needed some Virtues dancing. Now I can think about the music today and use my Virtues, all day!" (Is this my child??)

So once again Reg Grammer, and his cd BeBop Your Best. Check 'em out in these embedded links.
post #106 of 186
Hi everyone,
Prennamama, i want to thank you for introducing me to 'vritues parenting'. I read the book (most of it) and like alot of whats in it,...

...except for a few things....

First of all, im with Pam Leo and Alfie Kohn when it comes to timeouts. I dont feel cmfortable using them *at all* for 'teaching' purposes.
2ndly, some fo the virtues listed in the book , i dont think are virtues.

I dont think that obedience is a virtue. I think that co -operation and respect can quite easily function in the place of obedience.
I dont think orderliness is a virtue, but a strategy to achieve other virtues (such as gratitude or respect)

Also, i agree that parents need to act as leaders, but not as the police force. (ie punishment is not necessary in the teaching of virtues)

So im going to keep referring to my virtues manual, which contains many gems of advice and clear thinking.

But i'll leave the rest.

I bring this up, because you mentioned you wanted to live consensually. That is my aim in my parenting. I dont think that is possible with the role of parents as punishers.

Interested in what others think, and i hope to participate more in the ongoing disucssion....
Maya
post #107 of 186
anyone??
post #108 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by contactmaya View Post
anyone??
If you read through this thread at the beginning you will see how Prennamama defines obedience differently then the usual common definition..wish I had more time.

I also agree that some are not really technically virtues..according to the TAO there are 4 virtues only...and all of the virtues listed could be categorized under the 4 in the TAO in someway..I think they are broken down, way way down for some purpose..maybe to define subtle differences or something

sorry..
post #109 of 186
wow!! This sounds like it is right up my alley!
post #110 of 186
This thread cannot be lost!!

We just started with the values this past week with "peacefulness" and we are loving it! I am so shocked at how the kids really absorb it and use it. I posted about it here.

I am so thankful I found this thread!
post #111 of 186
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by contactmaya View Post
Hi everyone,
Prennamama, i want to thank you for introducing me to 'vritues parenting'. I read the book (most of it) and like alot of whats in it,...
You're welcome!
Quote:
<snip>...when it comes to timeouts. I dont feel cmfortable using them *at all* for 'teaching' purposes.
2ndly, some fo the virtues listed in the book , i dont think are virtues.
You know, I really understand on the time out piece. But I also feel it's important for humans to be taught about finding peacefulness during conflict, and a break from the action to reflect and discuss can help access that peacefulness and provide insight for all parties involved. For punishment? No. ITA. But for reflection and discussion... yes. For me, for dd, for any person regardless of age. But I teach meditation, and come at from that POV, not from one of punative action.
Quote:
<snip>I dont think orderliness is a virtue, but a strategy to achieve other virtues (such as gratitude or respect)

<snip>I bring this up, because you mentioned you wanted to live consensually. That is my aim in my parenting. I dont think that is possible with the role of parents as punishers.

Interested in what others think, and i hope to participate more in the ongoing disucssion....
Maya
On orderliness... FWIW, orderliness is something I envy in others! It requires a skill-set (that I lack, mostly) to keep things tidy and organized, and it's something I aspire to, whether or not it is a technically defined Virtue.

As for parents as punishers, and consensual living, I don't think any of the materials in the Virtues Project recommend punishment. I haven't come across that, in my studies. BUT I haven't actually read the manual cover to cover. Most of my personal knowledge-base is attained via Facillitators, other parents in the VP workshops I have attended, mentors, and other resources, etc... Was there something specific that gave you the feeling that punative action is part of the VP?

I believe that in life, there are folks that guide us through developmental leaps and assist us in learning about boundaries, virtues, healthy realtionships, etc. I feel it's my job as a parent to be that person for my child(ren) when they illustrate a need for such guidence. But it is done in a manner that honors dd's person, her humanity,her voice, her vote, and her journey. Just as I would hope I would be treated by a facillitator or guide in my own journey. I think if one views VP as a punative tool, it's easy to become uncomfortable with using some of the tools. But taken for what it is, a means to educate and learn about, as well as access the hidden gems within, in order to better navigate thru and function within society at large, it's a pathway to a certain level of enlightenment for parties who chose to incorporate the Virtues into their lfe, be those individuals adults or children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allgirls View Post
If you read through this thread at the beginning you will see how Prennamama defines obedience differently then the usual common definition..wish I had more time.

I also agree that some are not really technically virtues..according to the TAO there are 4 virtues only...and all of the virtues listed could be categorized under the 4 in the TAO in someway..I think they are broken down, way way down for some purpose..maybe to define subtle differences or something

sorry..
You said it so succinctly allgirls!! Thank you so much!

Quote:
Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
This thread cannot be lost!!

We just started with the values this past week with "peacefulness" and we are loving it! I am so shocked at how the kids really absorb it and use it. I posted about it here.

I am so thankful I found this thread!
Thread not lost... I just have so much on my plate right now that I have to squeeze in computer time, and if I run out of time before I get my MDC on, I miss out!

SO~~~~~ I am getting certifined soon as a Facillitator, and here in Portland OR there will be an intensive workshop for parents interested in applying this method to their parenting journey. Anyone on here in the area? PM for details!

I have downloaded the VOW manual, and have some ideas for starting an online VOW workshop... who's in?

Dd is actively engaged in discussing Virtues with her buddies and dh. She got a little burned out on the verbage, so we backed off just a little. But when things get touchy, we go right back to using the verbage in a pretty dedicated fashion. She likes to share with others the words themselves, tho, and what they mean.

I have incorporated alphabet and writing work into the Virtues education we use... She is really into writing things, and I am able to tap into that to work with her on the Virtues.

Hope all is well for all of you and I look forward to hearing how things have been going for you all!

Tara
post #112 of 186
So we started. This morning I said to my almost 3 and 5 year old as we were getting ready to go out to school.
post #113 of 186
Wow! What an awesome thread! It took me awhile, but I read through the whole thing and am very grateful to all of you.

I have all the links open in other windows and plan to look through them tomorrow or later this week.

This concept and approach really seems to resonate with me. I briefly discussed it with DH a little while ago and he seemed receptive to the idea, too. Our DD is 7 and has recently entered quite a challenging stage. I am currently working with an Ayurveda practitioner for my own health and am learning quite a bit about how food effects people differently and so on. In Ayurveda, DD would be said to have a lot of Vata (although probably worded differently than I have), so I am working with her on simple yoga poses and some breathwork for helping her 'find her calmness' (which is totally how I am going to phrase it next time! ). She is rebelling at the words we use, but is finding benefit in the positions themselves and just today asked to do a particular pose. I was so surprised! Of course I encouraged it and she did calm herself. It was spotty with about an hour of off and on 'drama' and 'calmness'. I really feel she would find it easier if we gave her different words and reframed situations in the ways presented in this thread. This approach seems so empowering for the child AND the adult while retaining a gentleness I find very important (as a child of an abusive parent).

BTW, DD's school has a character education program that is volunteer run (public school) and focuses on six main virtues that they frame as character traits. I believe they are: courtesy, respect, responsibility, caring, kindness, and the last one escapes me at the moment. DD did well with these in K and 1st, but started this year (2nd) off with some negativity towards the program. We talked about it, but she was unable to articulate her feelings in a meaningful way. I do not recall the specifics in her answers, but it was a general attitude issue that I was unable to penetrate at the time. I'm hoping the VP web site and books (library) will give me some 'talking points' and 'verbiage' not only to assist DD in internally recognizing these 'traits' within her already, but also to pass along to the parents who run the program to possibly be incorporated a bit more fully.

Anyway, it is late and I hope my reply makes sense. Thanks again for this thread!
post #114 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrennaMama View Post

I have downloaded the VOW manual, and have some ideas for starting an online VOW workshop... who's in?
Hi Tara, Good to see you are back again!

I am in!!!!:
post #115 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unity9 View Post
Hi Tara, Good to see you are back again!

I am in!!!!:
Me too! What would the pricing be?
post #116 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrennaMama View Post

I have downloaded the VOW manual, and have some ideas for starting an online VOW workshop... who's in?

Tara
I'm very interested.
post #117 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrennaMama View Post
I have downloaded the VOW manual, and have some ideas for starting an online VOW workshop... who's in?
Tara
I am interested.
post #118 of 186
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnysandiegan View Post
Wow! What an awesome thread! It took me awhile, but I read through the whole thing and am very grateful to all of you.

<snip>
DD's school has a character education program that is volunteer run (public school) and focuses on six main virtues that they frame as character traits. I believe they are: courtesy, respect, responsibility, caring, kindness, and the last one escapes me at the moment. DD did well with these in K and 1st, but started this year (2nd) off with some negativity towards the program. We talked about it, but she was unable to articulate her feelings in a meaningful way. I do not recall the specifics in her answers, but it was a general attitude issue that I was unable to penetrate at the time. I'm hoping the VP web site and books (library) will give me some 'talking points' and 'verbiage' not only to assist DD in internally recognizing these 'traits' within her already, but also to pass along to the parents who run the program to possibly be incorporated a bit more fully.

Anyway, it is late and I hope my reply makes sense. Thanks again for this thread!
Welcome to Virtues Parenting! Thanks for joining in. Something I remembered when I read the post above:

Perhaps when children lose sight of the fact that these traits are innate, they begin to feel "taught" or "instructed", and may seem to almost resent the information and the people giving it to them. In the VP, it's important to keep reaffirming that these traits are innate, already in the individual's make-up, for the most part, and just waiting to be unlocked, refined, and used naturally and with ease. Kind of like, anyone (mostly) can ride a bike, but you don't just hop on the bike and take off with perfect balance. Even tho balance is an innate part of how we hold ourselves upright, it's part of us and second nature, using it to travel on a bicycle takes an adaptation of or evolution in that innante ability.







As for the workshop, I'm working with my mentor next week to help decide how such a workshop will be best structured. My first instinct is to try to do it for free. Possibly via a yahoo group or facebook group. What kinds of information and tools would YOU like to have available? How effective, useful is the correspondance-nature of those groups, to you? (like the CL group) Would you like posted imagery, vid clips, songs, games..........?

Let me know what you think!
post #119 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrennaMama View Post
Welcome to Virtues Parenting!

Thanks!


As for the workshop, I'm working with my mentor next week to help decide how such a workshop will be best structured. My first instinct is to try to do it for free. Possibly via a yahoo group or facebook group. What kinds of information and tools would YOU like to have available? How effective, useful is the correspondance-nature of those groups, to you? (like the CL group) Would you like posted imagery, vid clips, songs, games..........?

Let me know what you think!
I am brand new to this concept, so I'm okay with any and all of it! I am already on Yahoo, but could always get a facebook account. Personally, I'd love an intro type course, but that may be quite boring for others. I can always just ask questions for getting started.

Speaking of getting started...
I requested every book our public library has on this subject and they will be arriving at our local branch as they are available. One is ready for pick up on Monday and I will do so. I forget which one exactly, but one of the ones already mentioned in this thread.

I brought up the topic with DH and he is open to the idea of adding to our toolbox of parenting skills.

How do you recommend we start with DD? I am with her more since DH works outside the home. I can see merits to a family discussion and I can see merits in having it just come up in conversation with her and I one day.

I used the verbiage with her one day already. I forget exactly what I said, though... I should have written it down for some guidance. Her response was less than enthusiastic...
post #120 of 186
About the virtues being intrinsic.

With my three year old I will say something like "you have to find patience deep down inside you, it's there, can you find some?"

The other day she was very impatiently waiting her turn for something and I said something similar to the above and she was resistant at first and then suddenly she said
"I found some!"

and I said "what did you find"

"I found some patience. It was in my tummy"

kids are so funny!
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