or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › Blended and Step Family Parenting › non married parental rights
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

non married parental rights - Page 2

post #21 of 34
My state uses a combination of standard formula and custody sharing for computing C/S. There is a *reduction* in C/S ordered for the # of overnights exceeding "X" amount. Generally, for 50/50 custody there is no C/S ordered b/c theoretically, BOTH parents would be providing half the care. If the father has been sharing 50/50 custody and also has *documentation* that the mother has left the child 100% in his custody in the past, then that may be considered in any hearing. Also, have the documentation of what has been paid by dad for the care of the child.

I can see the lawyers point in this case, the mother has stated to the father her intent to remove the child from the current arrangement and has *threatened retribution* if the father pursues his *legal rights* WRT the child. In this case, it may be best *for the child* that the father act pre-emptively and get an order FORBIDDING the mother from removing the child from the current arrangement w/o consent of the court. This is for the stability of the child. THEN mom and dad could hash out the custody arrangement in court/mediation. In my experience, the court does not like to move a minor child away from a parent for very many reasons.

I hope you can find an attorney that works with your values. Appropriate representation is very important in family court cases. Good luck.
post #22 of 34
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the info.
The father actually does have documentation of everything and all the receipts and what not.
However, he really just wants to reach a fair agreement. I know that the mother loves the child, and we believe that she is just confused right now.
Maybe we are being naive to think that she will come around and be cooperative.
Thanks again. Oh and he def didn't go with that lawyer.
post #23 of 34
some times custody can be handled in mediation, then entered into a court order after its hashed out. i hope you can get a stable custody/support agreement soon. i would be wary abt the mom's belief that she doesn't "have to" let dad see the child. i'm not going into details right now but i have 1st hand experiece of how damaging that is for the family. get a court order asap. good luck.
post #24 of 34
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your input. We have found a lawyer, and know that when I write "we" I know that it's really not a "legal" we.
I hope it gets worked out in mediation. I have this feeling that the mother is going to be hashing out her emotions through it all.
Like if one thing doesn't go her way, she will threaten ww3, then she will take a moment, think, and calm down. It's almost like she knows she will have to be reasonable, but doesn't want to make getting to that point easy on anyone.
She also told the father just last night that she doesn't want to cause him any upset because she cares about him too much.
Red flags??
Thanks!
post #25 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycle View Post
There does need to be a custody order in place and your BF should be paying child support, if he is the father the mother should not have to "try to get child support", it is the child's right and your BF's responsibility.

Until there is a custody order in most states where the couple is unmarried the mother by default has full custody. Typically though its not recognized unless there is an order, but she is not, at this point, doing anything illegal.
That's not necessarily true, if they have 50/50 custody, whoever makes more money is the obligator. Often the father, but not necessarily.

As far as I know, if paternity is established, the father has full legal rights to the child, married or not.

However, depending on what state you are in, she may or may not be able to move away with the child. My state is very pro-shared-custody. Others are not. You need to act now. We borrowed money to get a good lawyer and it was the best debt we ever went into. Dh has always had at least 50% custody and he has 80% now.
post #26 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoolove View Post
I don't mean to be close minded, but I am not sure why he would need to pay her child support if there is a 50/50 split. The child is carried on the father's insurance, and the father pays all of the medical bills, daycare bills, and even bought a car for her so that she would have reliable transportation.
Yesterday she told us that she was moving and if we tried to go to court, we would lose and the judge would make us pay her a ton of child support.
That was why I wrote that maybe she is after the money. I don't think that he is in anyway shirking any level of responsibility, in fact when she handed him their newborn and walked out of their lives it was him who held it together.
Also, actually in our state, luckily, we have found out that the mother of an unmarried couple does not have full custody by default.
It is based more on money and time with child. 50/50 custody doesn't mean no child support unless you both have the same income. If one parent has a higher income, they will likely pay the other. Our case is crazy where dh has full physical custody and mom has 20% vistiation but we pay her because she doesn't have an income. It 's just a computer formula and it took us a while to understand the "logic." Most states have a generic calculator on their childsupport websites. It isn't 100% accurate, but you can plug in your numbers to get an idea. Your income doesn't count, just the biological parents.
post #27 of 34
Thread Starter 
Thanks for sharing.
I was really confused about the "logic" behind cs. It seems like one parent can choose not to work and rely on the other parent's cs payment to make ends meet, and that doesn't seem right. In my divorce we have a 50/50 split with no cs. We think that cs won't be an issue unless it's like her saying "give me what I want to I am going to ask for cs."
(in that case, fine, so be it, ultimatley cs is not the issue)
but she generally seems to get really worked up, say crazy things (not that asking for cs is crazy, but in this one specific situation I wonder how much the would be awarded unless she purposley quit her job), and then clam down (I am trying to be understanding of this though, because situations like sharing a child can be difficult to handle)
post #28 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoolove View Post
Thanks for sharing.
I was really confused about the "logic" behind cs. It seems like one parent can choose not to work and rely on the other parent's cs payment to make ends meet, and that doesn't seem right. In my divorce we have a 50/50 split with no cs. We think that cs won't be an issue unless it's like her saying "give me what I want to I am going to ask for cs."
(in that case, fine, so be it, ultimatley cs is not the issue)
but she generally seems to get really worked up, say crazy things (not that asking for cs is crazy, but in this one specific situation I wonder how much the would be awarded unless she purposley quit her job), and then clam down (I am trying to be understanding of this though, because situations like sharing a child can be difficult to handle)


Even if she quits her job, she will have to supply tax returns. If she refuses to find a job, the state will calculate an income for her based on either her past income or her ability to get a job making "so much". Oftentimes, this turns out to be nothing more than minimum wage but still...it will be included.
post #29 of 34
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the input.
At first I was taking the whole cs issue personal, that the father wasn't taking any financial responsibility, but still wanted equal parenting rights etc..I realize now that it just depends on the way our state calculates it.
It's not personal.
I also realize that I haven't given many details about all that has gone on between the mother and father, but I didn't want to demonize the mother. She has made some pretty big errors in judgement, and if I wrote it all down, I could make her out to be pretty bad, but I know that we all (myself included) make mistakes and what not, and that's not the point. It's just that this father is a good one, and he bends over backwards to cater to the mother and attempt to keep her happy. Her choice to just come out the day before yesterday and tell the father that she was moving away with their child was quite a blow to him (us).
Thanks again
post #30 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoolove View Post
Thanks for the input.
At first I was taking the whole cs issue personal, that the father wasn't taking any financial responsibility, but still wanted equal parenting rights etc..I realize now that it just depends on the way our state calculates it.
It's not personal.
I also realize that I haven't given many details about all that has gone on between the mother and father, but I didn't want to demonize the mother. She has made some pretty big errors in judgement, and if I wrote it all down, I could make her out to be pretty bad, but I know that we all (myself included) make mistakes and what not, and that's not the point. It's just that this father is a good one, and he bends over backwards to cater to the mother and attempt to keep her happy. Her choice to just come out the day before yesterday and tell the father that she was moving away with their child was quite a blow to him (us).
Thanks again
What you've said is true, and furthermore, none of it really matters when it comes to child support. The judges don't really care who did what to whom (unless it is illegal and affects the child). When talking about child support it is really easy for dh to get into "but she walked out, she chose to do X, she left me with this bill, etc." but with child support it really comes down to time with child and income (or potential income)-- that's it. It's hard to separate that, but once we did if really became less personal for us and just "the way it is."
post #31 of 34
Just adding my $0.02. We had a situation about a year ago where my dsd's mother was planning to move to Greece with a bank robber without my df's consent. He was in the same legal boat as you, maybe worse. In MN, the mother of a child who never married the father is automatically granted custody unless challenged.

Luckily, the bank robber thing fell through, but DF still pursued the parenting agreement. The papers are at the lawyers office now, waiting to be signed.

Their custody arrangement has been 50/50 for a while. He has always paid CS, although it is less than when he had parenting time EOW. DSD's mom chooses not to work very often, so her income was imputed.

One note - with 50/50 situations, the online calculator for our state is off. It wasn't really designed for them. DF's lawyer ran the numbers by hand and the online calculator was off by about $100.
post #32 of 34
Thread Starter 
I totally appreciate your 2 cents.
I was going to write about how awful that law about full custody unless challenged thing, but it's a hard call. I feel like maybe it was designed to empower mothers, and in some situations (maybe unforunately most) it is the mother who gets dumped on by irresponsible fathers. However, there are a whole lotta good dads who care about their children.
It appears that she wants to work things out because she cares too much about he father to hurt him like this (what about caring about the child as well?)
so she thinks something can probably be worked out in a trial basis. The father made it clear that he intends to get a legally binding parenting agreement. At this point he is just trying to play nice so that the mediaiton will go smoothly.
I hope those papers get signed asap and everything goes well for your family. It sounds like it will be resolved soon.
Thanks again.
post #33 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by azfiresmbm View Post
Most lawyers will tell you to ask for more than what you actually want and then you can go from there ..
Yeah, I hate that so much! It turns child custody into a bargaining thing, like buying a car.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pinksprklybarefoot View Post
In MN, the mother of a child who never married the father is automatically granted custody unless challenged.
Uggh. That makes me nuts, too. Here in NM, joint custody (legal and physical) is the default. You have to prove the other parent unfit to gain sole custody. It's outrageous to me that those aren't the laws everywhere!



To the OP, definitely play as nice as possible and get a custody agreement in place. To protect yourself, your DP needs joint legal custody (joint physical, too, but joint legal is more important), a time-sharing plan (You don't have to be religious about it, but you want it in place if the need should arise. I won't bore you with my stories, but this is essential, esp. since she has expressed a desire to move.), and a right of first refusal.

Good luck! It sounds like the crisis has passed, so now is the perfect time to put some protections in place. I'd suggest that, for now, you fade into the wallpaper. Some moms are insecure and find a SM threatening, and in those cases things often go smoother if the mom only deals directly with the child's father. That's certainly true of my SS's mother and things in our world are much calmer when I keep my contact with her completely benign. If we happen to be near each other, I might chat about the weather or local news, but nothing having to do with our family. Course, it took me maybe 3 or 4 years of blended family life to tumble to that realization, but it really has helped.
post #34 of 34
Thread Starter 
Fade into te wallaper...that's exactly what I am going to do. Although, it's a shame that we cannot have more of a relationship. I think she has a lot of really mixed up emotions about her own life and the father. I get the impression that she thinks we think she's a horrible parent. If there was a way we could make her feel less insecure or confident that we respect her role as mother, we would.
But for now, we will do what needs to be done to get a peaceful agreement.
And good point about the right of refusal. When I got divorced we wrote in an agreement that basically made right of first refusal null for us, and we were fine with that, I think it will go the same way this time.
Thanks for sharing. I really appreciate all the info I have gotten.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › Blended and Step Family Parenting › non married parental rights